Proud Defector: Claire Headley On Scientology (Part 1)

[00:00:00] This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, medical,

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[00:00:25] I'm Sarah Edmondson.

[00:00:26] And I'm Anthony, air quotes Nippie, Ames. We are always going to circle back to Scientology now and again on this show because in the landscape of the cultivars, Scientology is very much an active volcano and it has been. And it's been in the news a bunch recently thanks to the Danny Masterson rape trial and conviction and Leah Remini's lawsuit. In case you missed it, she filed a lawsuit just this past August against the church of

[00:01:40] Scientology and its leader, David Miscavige a case against the Mother Church of Scientology, alleging the organization engaged in human trafficking and violated human rights, which we're learning this is very true. But the U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the First Amendment disallowed the courts from, quote, examining church operations rooted in religious scripture, end quote.

[00:03:02] Basically, the court ruled that there's nothing improper with Scientology's conduct.

[00:03:06] Sigh.

[00:03:06] Sigh. I think that's true. I would hope so. I mean, you know, I was born into it, so you make the best of a shitty circumstance.

[00:04:20] I don't know.

[00:04:21] I just, it was never my choice and I'm like, how does a human emulate hard as cold chrome steel? Anyway, it's, you know, the contradictions in Scientology run very, very deep, many, many layers. But that does explain a few things. Right? Yes, it sure does. I was like, oh my gosh. If I remember correctly, weren't most of them women in the RT?

[00:05:43] Yeah, a lot were women.

[00:05:45] So that's kind of isolate and for myself even to answer the question because I would get asked a lot, why did you stay

[00:07:03] in for so long? And when you're when I talk to people now and they're like, well, how are you so normal? I'm like, you kidding? That's all I ever wanted was normal. And what is normal after all in today's world, right?

[00:09:38] school and we would get teased and taunted and you know cuz we again in the cadet organization there's no parent involvement does that work in the real world and also maintaining the control and isolation? I don't know. I don't get it.

[00:11:01] Yeah. I always liken it to a one hard and daunting to me. They ended up sending me to London org, and I was out on the street passing out personality tests. The first person that said, oh yeah, I'll come in and do a personality test,

[00:12:21] I was like, oh my God,

[00:12:23] I can do this.

[00:12:24] It's sad in retrospect,

[00:12:26] like my youngest is 10, where a lot of children and the lack of supervision and the lack of any kind of organization to care for them was starting to cause them some pretty serious issues. And so my mother left. I then spent two years going to school. Greenfields, it's called. Greenfields is the UK equivalent of Delphi.

[00:13:41] So it's a Scientology school completely staffed by Scientologists. training when I was 14. And then at age 16, I finally started on my own billion year contract in Los Angeles at the Big Blue Buildings. I spent two months there. And then by September of 1991, I was promoted to the headquarters, the 500 acre super secure isolated compound in Gilman Hot Springs, California.

[00:15:03] And to go there, again, side note, that time, there were four or five different organizations housed within that compound, within the big blue buildings. So, you know, on the one side was the advanced organization.

[00:16:20] That's where people do the upper operating, they, in levels up to level five.

[00:17:22] just respond with, we can help you with that. Sounds familiar.

[00:17:23] Familiar with that.

[00:17:23] Yeah.

[00:17:24] Good.

[00:17:27] I know the red flags in retrospect,

[00:17:29] I always tell people like,

[00:17:30] aren't we humans equipped with such amazing elephant size

[00:17:34] rear view mirrors?

[00:17:35] It's shocking.

[00:17:36] Question about that building.

[00:17:38] Obviously that was a strategic purchase to take an old

[00:17:41] hospital.

[00:17:42] Like what was the origin of picking that building and why

[00:17:45] there of all the places that you could put it?

[00:17:48] Yeah, it's funny. I did not know that. The one in Vancouver looked like dark. It looked run down. It was not a nice center. It wasn't inviting. It had like a- But I always wondered, if I went in for a personality test, would that just be dangerous? Cause they'd have your number, your information.

[00:19:00] Is it dangerous to go do a personality test

[00:19:03] and just see what it's like?

[00:19:04] Yeah, well, I mean, I don't encourage anyone

[00:19:07] to go into sleep and then he saw people putting flyers on cars and it was his picture saying that he Was a sex offender. Yeah, what? Oh my gosh They thought he was like a journalist or something coming to film or... And all that stuff like they had to discredit him. That is what Scientology are experts at. Their practice of fair game is

[00:20:22] Vicious and evil and you know, I mean, yeah what what billion dollar cult not only doesn't have a spokesperson

[00:21:25] leaving. I've reconnected with other family members on his side of the family, but my mother just from that point forward told me he was a bad person and that he didn't care

[00:21:31] and he was irresponsible, blah, blah, blah. Then when I was six, my friend in the cadet

[00:21:37] organization, her parents were involved in the whole, there's historically in Scientology,

[00:21:44] there was a bunch of people that went is the head legal guy and religious technology center. He was handpicked that I shed far less, and I am thrilled with the results.

[00:24:24] Take the first step to members many, many times. My life was a complete train center, David Miscavige called that sleeping with the enemy. Even though he was my husband, he's a Sierg member, he works at the same property. And really what it boils down to is that David Miscavige didn't want me, for example,

[00:27:00] telling Mark anything about what I saw.

[00:28:05] People was there several years after that where it got degeneratively worse and worse and worse.

[00:28:06] But it was two double-wide trailers, which is where the management executives worked.

[00:28:12] And David Miscavige would frequently go to those double-wide trailers and hold extensive

[00:28:17] meetings.

[00:28:18] And then when people weren't allegedly complying with his orders, it just turned into hours once a year for two hours in which I would tell them, oh, everything's wonderful. Good roads, fair weather as it's called. They knew nothing about me. I couldn't call them without somebody listening on the phone. I couldn't write them a letter without somebody reading it. I would also say that part of it is for so many years working at that property, I was sleeping anywhere from zero to two, three hours a night.

[00:29:44] It's insane how that breaks down your ability to think clearly, I was nauseated full time. I weighed less than a hundred pounds at five seven. I was literally a wreck. So when Mark left, Mark escaped and they, I was going to go, I was actually called by security to go out on the highway to bring him back. And then, so I was like, okay, I'm going to go get him back. You know, I'm like, wait, what he's escaped.

[00:31:00] He's escaping without me.

[00:31:01] How am I still here?

[00:31:02] But I hadn't been home that I hadn't seen him in days.

[00:32:04] enough people that would just go screw this and go postal. Like it seems like that's the thing that would push

[00:32:07] a lot of people to like, okay, now it's time to be

[00:32:09] physically like violent or something like that

[00:32:11] or someone dying.

[00:32:14] Well, that happened too.

[00:32:14] That did happen.

[00:32:15] Yeah.

[00:32:16] Like, and then what did they do about that?

[00:32:18] Yeah, Stacey Moxon Meyer is one of the tragedies

[00:32:21] of that property.

[00:32:23] She got electrocuted, right?

[00:32:24] Yeah, she un part of the electrical team. So she very well knew the dangers of that chamber and there's just no way in a million from day one that you can handle any situation no matter how hard it is. You're going to make it go right. You know, the knowledge reports piece and the whole all the ethics policies and ethics technology. They call it, you know, where you're supposed to do whatever it takes to put ethics in. You're supposed started to break, they would get hauled off and put under 24-7 Security Watch. And this still exists? Yes. I have no reason to believe it doesn't. That 500-acre property in Gilman Hot Springs still exists.

[00:36:21] And even though they've moved the Golden Era Productions part to Los Angeles, it's now

[00:36:26] Scientology Media Productions. is because the Riverside County Sheriff's Office responded and Mark was just trying to get away. Doesn't it seem counterintuitive for Miscavige to be so involved in this? Of course, yeah. In terms of the actual showing up and enforcing this, like if I'm a leader and I'm leading something, why am I in a hole ever?

[00:37:40] Right.

[00:37:41] The Napoleon complex.

[00:37:42] Yeah, yeah, it's the corruption of extreme power.

[00:37:45] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:37:46] We watched a video, Siri was born six weeks after my oldest son. I'm like, how can you not have a relationship with your child? It's insanity. I mean, I don't think he's, he's seen her in like 10 years. Jesus. What was the appeal of say Katie Holmes? Like she must have known what she was getting involved with. Yes and no. I mean, they carefully ensconced her.

[00:39:01] They had Jessica Feshback as her handler and you know, they, they very carefully

[00:39:07] lure you into the trap. Truth time. Leaving a cult is stressful. Nippy's hair took a big hit. Mine too, to be honest. But that's just life. Stress and hormone fluctuations and all kinds of things can show up in your hair. That's why I'm glad I found Nutriful. I feel like my hair is already healthier.

[00:40:21] Nutriful's whole body approach multi-targets underlying root causes like stress, hormone the time. I got a message the other day from somebody who had received four voicemails within the last week to get them to come into an organization in California to see this event that just took place. Now he's talking to the police and I was just, you know, those three weeks. So he escaped on January 4th, 2005. And it took me until I think it was the 21st, like two, three weeks later is when I was able to make my escape, which was, you know, by that point, I was in the hole.

[00:44:05] really hard decisions and that's where I kind of just came to the realization I did not have a relationship with my parents or my family or even my friends that I, you know,

[00:44:10] people I thought were my friends there. It all relied solely on my cooperation with and

[00:44:17] in Scientology. And anyway, I had to go to great lengths to figure out how to reach Mark,

[00:44:23] unbeknownst to anybody. And I was going to get out. Anyway, I talked to him and I was

[00:45:41] like, I can't stay here. And he's like, but what about your family? I'm like, I can't

[00:45:44] do this anymore. I'm going to die if I stay called a cab using my phone at 6 o'clock that morning and I said,

[00:47:01] yeah, I need a cab.

[00:47:02] Barbara Smith, stupid name that I made up.

[00:47:06] We know a Barbara Smith, that's funny. My appointment is at 10.15 and as it happened, she didn't immediately see a parking spot. So I just said, hey, just let me out. I need to go into the appointment. It's right now. I tried to be very calm. I'll just go ahead on in. So she agreed and she let me get out of the car and I walked into the Walmart and I walked

[00:48:20] straight to the other exit because I saw the cab at the other, you know, how this entrance

[00:48:25] exits.

[00:48:26] Yeah.

[00:48:27] Yeah.

[00:48:28] And again, it's just, right after that he called. So he's like, okay, here's what you do when you get to the bus station, turn on the phone, call this company in Times Square and ask for directions of how to get there. He's trying to throw them off the trail of where I'm heading and I'm like, okay, all right, I'll do that. And then he's like, and

[00:49:40] then turn off the phone, don't turn it on again. Don't listen to any of the messages

[00:49:45] they've left you. Just call me from a short window to get the next ticket that Mark was going to give to me to go to Kansas City. But when I got to Barstow, I panicked, and I couldn't find a pay phone that would accept coins. I didn't know what a calling card was. Anyway, I freaked out and I turned on the phone and I called Mark,

[00:51:00] and he was immediately like,

[00:51:02] what are you doing? I was just flustered.

[00:51:05] Anyway, he gave me the ticket, I'm like, no, I'm not. So he was there with three other people. They had gotten their head of the bus and were there to take me back. So I went into the bus station completely panicking. I absolutely expected that they would just physically drag me out of there. So I set my purse on, on the floor in the middle of the bus station, sat down

[00:52:25] and endured 45 minutes of them doing everything they could fortunately.

[00:53:40] You know, I, and again, I didn't at one point, Greg Wilher was like, well, what if David Miscavige was here? I'm like thinking to myself, good thing he ain't, he ain't here. So I'm going to keep stick to my path here. Anyway, so I made it. I, for you two days later, I made it to Kansas city and reunited with Mark and the rest is history.

[00:53:45] Damn, that is intense. That needs to be a movie.

[00:53:46] Why isn't this a movie yet? I had so much anxiety in my body listening to that story. You were telling me that I was. That's insane, dude. Oh my gosh, I know. It's the stuff of nightmares for sure. I still have nightmares to this day. I bet. But on the other hand, I'm so, so grateful I succeeded. Oh my gosh, you know. Seriously.

[00:55:02] Damn, that's intense.

[00:55:03] Wow.

[00:55:04] But seriously, why haven't you sold this story

[00:55:06] to make a movie, it. But also, he didn't want to put me on the spot to make me have to decide. Flash answer, choose between him and my entire family and life as I'd known it, which is completely fair. And frankly, it worked out for ourselves in Colorado, and we have successful businesses. Every day is a joy to be free of that organization. That's just the long and the short of it. You know? When did you know that you were going to dedicate so much of your time and energy to exposing it?

[00:58:41] I'm not going to shut that down. But in that moment when child services showed up,

[00:58:44] I was like, that's it, line in the sand.

[00:58:47] You know what? I can be terrified,

[00:58:49] but for the sake of my kids,

[00:58:51] I'm going to stand up and tell my truth and tell my story.

[00:58:55] Scientology played a huge role in me being here today.

[00:58:59] Claire, thank you so much for

[00:59:01] taking the time to tell us your story.

[00:59:02] I am so glad to finally have it.

[00:59:04] I feel like it's just,

[00:59:07] you're really inspiring to me and I know you Lifts a cliffhanger. Honestly, this needs to be- Like a Dan Brown novel. It really is. And rotate the storylines. Hollywood or whoever, pay attention and give this woman a book deal and a movie deal and come back for part two. She deserves it. She deserves it. She's an amazing person. She deserves the best. Carry on. Our hero, come back for part two with Claire Headley.