Proud Defector: Claire Headley On Scientology (Part 2)

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[00:00:24] I'm Sarah Edmondson.

[00:00:25] And I'm Anthony, air Headley. The redo. If you haven't heard part one, I recommend rewinding and going back and listening. I don't think you rewind podcasts, but yeah, you get the gist. Let us know what you think on Patreon and Instagram, or wherever you listen to founder. Wow. Yesterday was my 19th anniversary of escaping. How crazy is that? That's crazy and so perfect that we have where you're here in the podcast to tell us all about it. I know. You escaped, I knew if I gave in in that moment, I literally would just never see Mark again. I would never be free. I would never have a chance to live the life I've always wanted to. So anyway, I sat on my purse. They threatened to follow me on the bus.

[00:04:20] They didn't, I got on the bus.

[00:04:21] And of course, the first thing I did was turn on the organization phone that I

[00:04:26] had with me because cat's out of the bag on where I was.

[00:05:27] that the police are, a Scientologist believes they're never to call the police ever, as has been talked about many times now, particularly in the case of the Danny Masterson trial.

[00:05:33] It's absolutely forbidden to call the police.

[00:05:36] And so even in that moment where I was at risk of being kidnapped, it did not occur

[00:05:41] to me to call the police, which, again, in retrospect.

[00:05:46] And how many people were there waiting for you? night around 6 30 p.m. There wasn't a whole lot of people in the bus station. So I just I didn't know what was gonna happen honestly. Tell us about the reuniting with Mark how that happened. Oh my goodness. So so yeah so I called Mark and said so now I'm sitting on the bus ready to go and called him and said

[00:07:00] okay I'm on my way he's like oh my gosh what happened and you know I told him

[00:07:04] everything that happened which he had a good not engage. And so, so yeah, it was, it was a little bizarre. Like I'm waiting in line to get on the bus. I have Greg Wilher and this other woman named Sharon Johnston, just kind of standing there

[00:08:21] talking to me the whole time. Greg threatened to follow me on the bus. They didn't. I got on the bus and that's when I called Mark and said, okay, I'm coming in. And he lost his mind. And then about a day later, I made it to Kansas City and he was there to meet me. And we hugged and it was like, oh, the first day of the rest of our lives. And it really was like,

[00:09:42] we'd been married for 13 years, but that was like going to... So four topics? See its fate. Ready? Go. Yeah. All right. Healing journey. Yes, healing journey. So wow. Yeah. I mean, so that day arriving in that bus station, I had $40 in So Mark took me, we drove there and he was waiting for me outside and I did the interview. They were like, well, yeah, great. We love it. Can you start Monday as a waitress? I was like, yeah, great. I'll be here and I walk outside and I tell Mark,

[00:12:20] I'm like, I got the job.

[00:12:22] He's like, that's amazing. Congratulations.

[00:12:24] How much are they going to pay you?

[00:12:26] I'm like, I forgot to ask. on us more closely. Anyway, we'll get into that. So we ended up moving back to LA in September of 2005. So we escaped in January. So by September 2005, we were back in LA. That's how I moved. Really? Yeah. There's the same time. It was August, but around the same time.

[00:13:41] Oh, wow.

[00:13:41] That's amazing.

[00:13:42] Yeah.

[00:13:43] We were living in Burbank, California.

[00:13:45] And by this time I was now pregnant.

[00:13:48] Wow.

[00:13:49] Yes.

[00:14:44] when I was younger, it seemed unimaginable the thought that I could possibly ever get out.

[00:14:45] So anyway, yeah, so I was now pregnant with my son.

[00:14:49] And so right around this time, I think now, well, a couple of months after this, Mark

[00:14:55] had started kind of researching and looking into what was on the internet about Scientology.

[00:15:01] I knew he was doing this.

[00:15:02] It was honestly scary for me at that moment in time because I knew the path he was going good. So he started posting anonymously just to correct some of the outrageous stories that were online with the true stories. There's nothing like the truth is far more outrageous and damning. Yeah, exactly. Like the physical abuses we witnessed of David Miscavige beating up staff and on and on and on, all the things we'd clear. Who's the filmmaker from Canada that was in Scientology? What was his name? Paul Haggis. Paul Haggis. Paul Haggis. They build up the levels and all that stuff. And Paul Haggis is pretty calculated in his interview for a majority of the documentary. He's very articulate, diplomatic when he's talking about it.

[00:17:40] And he just looks at the camera and goes,

[00:17:42] what the fuck are you talking about?

[00:17:44] And he breaks character when he's like,

[00:17:47] you're telling me all this time amazing, supportive, generous patrons. Are you with us? Come find us over on Patreon at patreon.com slash a little bit culty for bonus episodes, exclusive content, and the occasional zoom with our fan favorites from our past episodes. It's a lot of fun over there, people.

[00:19:03] Break time's over, people. Let's get back to this episode of a little bit culty.

[00:19:06] It's a good one. speaking out or anything else because I remember I still was holding on to a threat of a hope that one day I might be able to ever speak to my mom again. My sisters, my brother, you know, I love my family. That hurt really, really bad. But I thought, you know, I could read a book. What's wrong with reading a book? So I got Barefaced Messiah by Russell Miller and another book I read is

[00:20:23] called Madman or Messiah by Bent Carden. And then I just started reading other and it's really quite something to unravel that and walk it back. Right. But I did eventually realize, yes, I need to talk to a therapist. I need to work on this. I need to do the work of really understanding because it just struck me like being that I was born into it. I don't know what my pitfalls are. I don't know how do I evaluate? What am I

[00:22:44] distinctions were in Scientology, you are a suppressive person and it was extended to your personhood.

[00:22:46] Which could happen in the ESP too.

[00:22:47] Yeah, but it was pretty bad.

[00:22:48] But generally there was a suppressive tendency.

[00:22:49] And you had a suppressive strategy, meaning like when you saw someone do well, you felt

[00:22:54] bad.

[00:22:55] Then that was something that you could evolve.

[00:22:56] Like if you rejoiced at someone's...

[00:22:59] Like schweidenfruid is the word for it, right, in German?

[00:23:01] If you feel good with someone being sick or something, that would be like a suppressive

[00:23:06] thought.

[00:23:07] But you weren't a suppressive person because you had that. find help to unravel that stuff. Yes. And were you also like working with other Scientology members at that point? So Mark and I started helping people. Gosh, I think the first time was 2006. And we just started bringing people together. And Christmas 2006, we had our first ever SP party where we just, we had like 40 people

[00:24:23] come over to our house. that time, it was still very much, I thought, OSA had power and could do really, really bad things to me. And in some respects they did. And we'll talk about that. But either way, so we started bringing people together. We would find people who had escaped and they were trying to reunite with their family. Like we flew one guy back to the US to help

[00:25:41] him reunite with his mother and help people get jobs. And you work for free. I see. Yes, exactly. I know no references, no anything. It's, it's crazy that the, anyway, so that's when that kind of started and later, like, so now we have a series Mark is doing on our YouTube channel called the spy files.

[00:27:00] So we, we now have the documents that office of special affairs was writing at They had a picture of my son, my newborn son in one of these reports that they had sent to David Miscavige Alleging that he was sickly. He was my first child. He had cone head. He was perfectly fine. They're I mean Goes up like so they were really like in they really were spying on us. Yes, they were stealing our trash

[00:29:22] Because we first started this podcast, we were so afraid of being sued. And we're like allegedly the cult like organization, you know, and come at me.

[00:29:27] But you're right.

[00:29:28] It's even in the last three years, more people are speaking out about it.

[00:29:31] We must be low hanging fruit to them.

[00:29:36] I mean, Hey, listen, it's not something to laugh about.

[00:29:38] It's very serious.

[00:29:40] In fact, literally yesterday.

[00:29:42] So I, I, I put together a declaration that was actually just

[00:29:47] filed in Leah Remini's lawsuit.

[00:30:43] I've seen some stuff where they like show up have cameras going through your stuff

[00:30:47] How have people not like fought back or done anything like now? Well like physical like because they come into your space and like if I saw some guys going through my trash and I got my

[00:30:53] Kids like I don't know how I'd react

[00:30:55] I don't know who these people are like has anything like that ever happened. We're like it's done physical

[00:31:00] Yeah, that's that's somewhat their intention. It's obviously, OSA and Scientology knew that Mark was in Germany. They had private investigator following Mark and Jason Begay were traveling together.

[00:32:24] They had a private investigator on them the entire time. Anyway, to this day, it makes me mad that I didn't expect this and that I let this catch me off guard. It really was so upsetting. In that moment, I was terrified. What do I do? You know what I did? I said, go to hell. I slammed the door in his face and I called the police.

[00:33:41] That was the first time I ever called the police.

[00:33:43] I'm like, finally.

[00:33:45] I was finally unraveling the programming. My first son was two, two and a half, two and a half by then, my middle son was six months old. And the gentleman that came from child services, he was very polite and kind, but he said, listen, we received an anonymous tip and by law we're required to come here. We've investigated it. It's obviously false, but you need to watch your back.

[00:35:02] Someone's making trouble for you.

[00:35:03] And I remember in that moment, shutting thatAs and all sorts of goodies. It's fun over there, people. You've heard from our sponsors. Now, let's get back to a little bit culty, shall we? What do you think is important for people to know about the Dining Masterson trial and

[00:36:22] what was your role in it? of huge insurmountable barriers to expose the truth. And so my hat is off to them always because I mean, this was really the third trial. There was pre-trial, like they had to testify three times. So in the first, the, yeah. And in the first official trial, it ended in a hung jury in the second trial, going into the second trial, the, the, the

[00:37:43] defense had changed their strategy to start to played into the facts of this case. That was my testimony. So on May 3 I'm well aware of the beast that we're up against with Scientology and their tactics.

[00:40:21] So yeah, no, it was absolutely a very hard thing to do.

[00:40:24] Did you have to face anyone that you knew in the courtroom?

[00:40:28] Ex-members? not allowed to know. So it had nothing to do with his quote unquote expert knowledge of Scientology. It was 100% intended to get under my skin. 100%. Anyway, he didn't end up being there the day that I testified, which just further proves the point that that was a tactic from

[00:41:41] Scientology to try and undermine me and get under my skin and deter me from this testimony. just continuing to gain momentum. I think that the most significant turning points that I see looking back over the last 10 years is number one, the Going Clear documentary based on Lawrence Wright's book, Going Clear Scientology and the Prison of Belief. And then of course, Alex Gibney many good things. Last year we were approved for the combined federal campaign, which is a federal workplace giving program for nonprofit foundations. So in the last few months I've done presentations to Homeland Security, the Department of Defense,

[00:44:22] the FAA outlining the help that the people who are brave enough to stand up and say, no, this is had that since 1993. So you're right. It's high time that somebody...

[00:47:01] I don't know who that person is, but should we write them?

[00:47:03] I don't either.

[00:47:04] South Park.

[00:47:05] Yes.

[00:47:05] Let's get Trey Parker and Matt Stone to come up with the test.

[00:47:08] Oh.

[00:47:08] Yes.

[00:47:08] Those guys are great. that we put out last year, the story of Serge Obolenski. Serge is someone who grew up in Scientology, was brought in from the age of two, and unfortunately at the age of 19, on L. Ron Hubbard Way, he had a terrible accident in which he lost both of his hands and an eye. And Scientology kicked him out as they do, and he ended up homeless on Hollywood

[00:48:23] Boulevard for 10 years. new prosthetic hands, a new prosthetic eye. We got him tutoring. He just in June of last year got his GED. Our whole family flew out to LA and attended his high school graduation. It's amazing, absolutely amazing. And so the reason I think that that, like for my kids to see, there you go. It's important work It's important work and you know, it does inspire me every day to just know that yes We can live through trauma We can have terrible experiences But what we do and how we use those experiences to help other people is what matters most That's the end of the podcast

[00:52:04] for a live Zoom Q&A where she will be answering all your questions about Scientology and the trial or whatever you want to know. Stay tuned also for

[00:52:08] her book one day and all the amazing things she's doing on her website which

[00:52:13] can be linked in our show notes. Also friendly reminder if you are a

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