Corporate Vagina: Star Stone on OneTaste (Part 1)

[00:00:00] Football season is here, which means our weeknights are basically chaos. Practice, game, someone always needs to eat at the oddest hour, and somehow, we never get organized enough to meal plan on the weekend. Classic move in our household. Having quality protein already on hand has been a lifesaver, and that's exactly why we love Omaha Steaks. Grab the filet, throw it on the grill, three minutes each side, butter in my mouth. They've got ribeyes for those special occasion nights, juicy burgers for a quick cookout, grilling chicken, seafood, gourmet Franks, whatever.

[00:00:30] Whatever you need, they've got it. Plus, sides and desserts. So dinner's basically done for you. Everything's meticulously aged and vacuum sealed, individually, shipped nationwide, arrives frozen and ready for grilling, searing or roasting with almost no effort. No last-minute store runs mid-baseball season panic, and honestly, store-bought just can't touch the quality Omaha spent generations perfecting. Right now, for $79.99, you get their Burger Perfection Flight. 20 premium steak burgers.

[00:01:00] 4 pure ground filet mignon. 4 New York strip. 4 ribeye. 4 brisket. 4 sirloin. Each one bringing its own flavor to the grill. Boom. Basically, dinner's handled even when your schedule absolutely isn't. Try the Burger Perfection Flight at OmahaSteaks.com today.

[00:01:17] That's 20 premium steak burgers for just $79.99 plus get $35 off with promo code Kulti. That's OmahaSteaks.com promo code Kulti for $35 off at checkout. Terms apply. Seasite for details.

[00:01:32] AllNote gibt es seit 2013. Wir stellen Fahrradbekleidung her. Der größte Vorteil von Shopify für mich ist, dass wir für die Unternehmensverwaltung keine technischen Vorkenntnisse brauchen. Wir können alles über das Backend und das Frontend steuern und so quasi im Vorbeigehen den Online-Shop betreiben. Wäre Shopify Fahrradzubehör, dann wäre die Plattform das eigentliche Fahrrad. Sie ist einfach die Grundlage. Unser ganzes Geschäft läuft über Shopify. Starte jetzt deinen kostenlosen Test auf shopify.com.

[00:02:00] This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, medical, or mental health advice. The views and opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business, individual, anyone, or anything. I'm Sarah Edmondson. And I'm Nippy Ames.

[00:02:30] And this is A Little Bit Culty, the podcast where we unpack cults, control, and coercion. We woke up from a cult. The whole wild ride ended up in The Vow on HBO and in my memoir, Scarred. Now after eight seasons of hearing every kind of culty story imaginable, we've bottled up everything we've learned into a book, also called A Little Bit Kulti. It's available now in all formats on Amazon, Audible, and where fine books are sold. Or get a signed, personalized copy on our website.

[00:02:56] Better yet, ask your local bookstore or library to order it and encourage them to get on that cult awareness bandwagon. On the show, we break down the shame and secrets that make these experiences so destructive, with honest conversations about how everyday groups can slide into the cultiverse. Each week, we bring in experts, survivors, and whistleblowers to talk red flags, resilience, and recovery. And yes, we still make time to laugh. Sometimes you have to, or you'll cry.

[00:03:21] Want early ad-free episodes, live Q&As, and exclusive extras? Join us on Patreon at patreon.com slash a littlebitkulti. Welcome to Season 9 of A Little Bit Kulti. Taking time to the depths of the ocean. Welcome back to A Little Bit Kulti, everyone. If you've been with us for a while, you know that One Taste is a story that we've been following closely. And it's not that tasty, we found out.

[00:03:50] We've already devoted two episodes to it. In one, we spoke with a former One Taste member who gave us a firsthand look at what it was actually like inside the organization. And we also spoke with investigative journalist Ellen Hewitt, author of Empire of Orgasm, Sex Power, and the Downfall of the Wellness Cult, who spent years investigating One Taste and its founder, Nicole Dadone. So, we've looked at this story from the inside and through the lens of deep investigative reporting. Today, we're coming back to One Taste from an entirely different angle. Is this a second taste?

[00:04:20] Third taste. Oh, Jesus. Because a lot has happened since we last talked about One Taste. And today's guest, Star Stone, has found a way to explore this incredibly dark and complicated story through something we haven't tried yet. Comedy. You said the first half of this. We set you up for this. We set you up for coffee. But first, for anyone who missed these earlier episodes or just needs a refresher, here's some context. One Taste was founded in San Francisco in 2004 by Nicole Dadone.

[00:04:47] At the center of the company was a practice called orgasmic meditation, or OM. OM. Or OM. A partnered 15-minute practice involving the stimulation of a woman's genitals. Sorry. It's crazy. I know. I'm not laughing at it. I'm laughing at the way Nippy said genitals. Well, I had to go down with it because it's, you know. Sorry. Part of the theme here. We just have to have a good time on this one.

[00:05:16] We live in darkness most of the time. This is a later episode. One Taste presented OM as a path to connection, mindfulness, sexual empowerment, even healing. The company expanded across the U.S. and internationally, selling courses, coaching, events, and other programs. And for a while, this wasn't some obscure organization operating in the shadows. No, no. No, Sarah. One Taste received significant mainstream attention. Dadone gave a TEDx talk. So did you, Sarah.

[00:05:46] No big deal. The company was profiled in the major media and its message of putting female pleasure at the center of the conversation felt provocative and empowering. And that's important. Ooh. Because then we let you sound like a cow. Because when we look at groups like this after everything's fallen apart, it's easy to say, how could anyone fall for that? And trust me, we've been there. We hate that question. But people don't join something because they think it's dangerous. They join. Dangerous. We are. I don't know what's going on with us today.

[00:06:14] They join because it offers something they want or need. Connection. Healing. Belonging. Purpose. Empowerment. Orgasm. And that raises a question that comes up again and again on this podcast. What happens when our genuine desire to heal becomes the very thing someone else learns to exploit? There's answers to those questions, Sarah. According to federal prosecutors and ultimately a federal jury, that's where the One Taste story became something very different. Prosecutors said to Donne,

[00:06:43] In One Taste, former head of sales Rachel Churwitz used psychological, emotional, financial, and sexual coercion to obtain the labor and services of certain members. Heard this before. Yes, it's very familiar. The government presented evidence that members were encouraged to take on debt for expensive courses, became dependent on the organization for basic needs, worked long hours for little or no compensation, and in some cases were coerced into sexual acts for the financial benefit of the company. And since our previous episodes, there's been a major development.

[00:07:12] In June 2025, a federal jury convicted Nicole Dodone and Rachel Churwitz of forced labor conspiracy. In March of this year, Dodone was sentenced to nine years in federal prison and Churwitz to six and a half. The court also awarded nearly $888,000 in restitution to seven victims. Dodone and Churwitz have maintained their innocence and are challenging their convictions. One Taste's current owners have also disputed the allegations and maintained that consent has always been fundamental to the practice.

[00:07:40] Which brings us to today's guest, Star Stone. Star is a writer, performer, comedian, and teaching artist with a BFA from NYU's Tisch School of the Arts. She's toured her work from Hollywood to Edinburgh, gone viral with more than 17 million views, and used her platform to speak about trauma and the stories we don't always know how to tell. Now she's bringing that honesty and a lot of humor to her one-woman show, Clit Cult, a comedic musical storytelling experience about One Taste.

[00:08:07] And today we want to go beyond simply retelling the One Taste story. How does something sold as empowerment become a vehicle for control? How can the language of healing, sexuality, and liberation be used to override our own instincts? And why can something that looks completely outrageous from the outside feel so compelling when you're inside it? Because understanding coercive control isn't about asking about how could somebody get involved. It's about asking what was this person looking for and how did somebody learn to use that against them?

[00:08:37] Obviously this conversation isn't about shaming the people who became involved with One Taste. It's about understanding what made it compelling and what this story can teach us about power, consent, coercion, and belonging. And somehow Star has managed to find comedy in all of it. So let's talk about it. Here's our conversation with Star Stone.

[00:09:08] Welcome Star to A Little Bit Culty. Thanks for having me. We're so excited to have you and do a third episode on One Taste. The Taste. The Taste. Which is – now we just call it The Taste. The Taste. Let's simplify things around here. You know, this has been – this called us take enough space in the zeitgeist. We figured we could do one more. And, you know, as we certainly know from NXIVM, not everyone in the same group has the same experience. And we're sure that your story – It didn't rhyme though.

[00:09:38] Yeah. Yeah. We're sure that you've had, you know, some overlap with our past guest, Anthea, who you didn't know, right? You never met her? No, no. And I think it's because maybe we were in different chapters or like she was in New York, I think, and I was in San Francisco, essentially. Oh, yeah. No, she was in San Francisco. She was? I think she was early years. She was ground zero. Yeah. Oh, right, right, right. I think right when it started. Yeah. Oh, so then, yeah, it was later. So, no. Tell us about your journey into One Taste. How did you hear about it? What was it offering that you were – that hooked you?

[00:10:08] Yeah. So, I was just hanging out in L.A. and San Francisco a lot, like through different scenes that I was in, you know, spiritual seeker at the time. And in a lot of those communities, One Taste was coming up. But I wasn't really learning about it in terms of this is an organization you can learn this practice in. It was more like, hey, do you want to own? People were just talking about it as an own practice. I didn't know what they meant, and I thought that they meant yoga, right? Because I was into yoga. I was studying to be a yoga teacher at the time. And it just kept coming up.

[00:10:36] And I saw people wearing shirts at different parties that I was at. And eventually, I was staying with a yoga teacher friend of mine. And this was in L.A. I had met her on Maui, and she was hosting a turn-on at her place. And I didn't even know. And so, I got an introduction into what it might be from that. And then eventually, when I was living in the Bay Area while I was doing a yoga training,

[00:11:02] that is when I made the choice to check out one of their turn-ons for the first time. Did you know what you were walking into? Like, had it been explained to you at this point? It's the first time I've heard it called the turn-on. Oh, yeah, a turn-on. Yeah, it's like their intro. They get you that way. You know what? I didn't know what I was getting involved in. I really didn't. I walked in pretty much like, hey, there's this group of people I keep hearing about. People keep talking about it.

[00:11:30] But it really was never communicated what you do there. No one had said to me, hey, it's a 15-minute clitoris stroking practice. No one had talked about it in those terms. Okay, so I didn't know that was really what was going on. I figured out that it had something to do with female empowerment and connection. I had no idea. I was just like, people are going to this. Let me try it out. What was your first impression? The sales pitch is the female empowerment.

[00:11:58] The real thing is the clit stroking. That's not on the brochure. For those who have not heard our other episodes, what was that like for you? To walk in and set the stage. What's it like? How do they introduce it? This is the part that I think people have a hard time wrapping their head around. Like, paint the picture for us. They do not introduce it. Just so you know.

[00:12:25] You walk into the first thing, the turn on, which by the way, I don't even think that they told me it was called a turn on. I found out about that later. So I go into this. It felt like a meet and greet, right? Because they put these events on Meetup at the time. Meetup was cool. A meetup was a thing in the 2010s, right? It was like fun. I remember that, yeah. And all the weird shit was on Meetup. You just like go to that. But also cool stuff, right? But like the sexy things too were on Meetup. So anyway, I went to – so yeah. So there was a meetup. So you get all kinds of people. And you go there.

[00:12:53] I was at their center in San Francisco, which is across from Twitter at the time. And you just like had on name tags. They had on some hype music. You feel like you're at some kind of mixer or you're going to some kind of like corporate mingling thing. It did not give sex. It did not give we are a clitoris stroking crew. Like it was very just – you know, it wasn't even sexy. There was no sex appeal. I didn't feel that coming in there.

[00:13:22] So I wore a name tag and people had on shirts that I believe said something about orgasm or turn on. There was – they had on shirts for sure. Like great T-shirts. And then staff members were dressed in black. I noticed that. I went into a room, right? Fluorescent lights. This is the first day. First day. This is the first time I've ever gone. Yeah. And so I basically walked in and they had us, you know, sit down.

[00:13:48] There were some higher chairs that are more like barstool type chairs that they had at the front where the staff was sitting. And in that scenario, they started what appeared to be communication games. And so – Like icebreakers? Kind of. Yeah. It was strange. Twister. Yeah. Yeah. There was nothing – Oh, wow. I wish there had been – that would have been fun.

[00:14:14] This was a bit more – if I – this is vanilla and kind of boring. Like it wasn't – okay, if you're going to something with sexual overtones, undertones, whatever, like there was none of that. It was very much just – again, felt very corporate. Felt very like team building exercises or something. Like it – I'm not really remembering specifically what kinds of questions they began with. But I know that they got more increasingly intimate.

[00:14:41] And because there was something that they used called the hot seat, which is when you would join one of the staff from your seat. You could come up to one of their chairs and they would kind of lean into you. And, you know, one of the questions I think was if your sex was an animal, what would it be? Like that kind of stuff. But – so I immediately noticed from this presentation that this had nothing to do – like what – I don't understand what the purpose of this is. Like what is this guiding us to?

[00:15:09] Well, how is this introducing us to your courses, your – whatever you're about? I didn't understand what communication and what any of this had to do with anything. So immediately, because I didn't understand what they were doing, I wanted to know more. And I think that is how they hook you because, of course, there's confusion and it's designed that way. So you'll ask the questions and join and keep going. In a skeptical sort of way or I'm intrigued sort of way?

[00:15:35] In a skeptical kind of way, but also I think only because I had heard that there was some version of – you know, some version of empowerment. It was also like, well, where does that come in? And where – when do I get to this piece? When do I get to, you know, hear about that? Because that's what I cared about. That's what you were there for. Yeah. That's why you went, right? That's why I went.

[00:15:59] And also because there's obviously – and because I – there was a piece around orgasm that I didn't understand. I was thinking, how is that tied? How are these things linked? And so there was a lot of – I would say a lot of pieces thrown at me, a lot of things I had heard before I got there. And then none of those things were presented in that first meet and greet kind of thing. So all of that made me go, well, where's the orgasm thing? Where's the female – where is all this living? Because I'm not seeing it right now.

[00:16:34] Quick, shameless plug for our book because there's a very exciting update. The audiobook is officially out and it's narrated by us. So you can now read the book however you like. Hardcover, e-book, or listen to us tell you the whole damn story ourselves. And if you've been listening to the podcast thinking, I know this story, what else is there to learn? We think you might be surprised. Because the book does something different. It pulls everything we've learned together into one place. Not just what happened, but the patterns underneath it. The red flags we missed.

[00:17:04] And what we understand now. And what we hope you can take from our experiences and actually use it in your own life. And if you're more of a just-give-me-the-goods person, we've got you there too. There are simple takeaways and checklists throughout. So you can skim, highlight, dog ear, or come back to the parts that matter most. It's the story, yes. But it's also the, okay, what do we do with everything? We've learned book. And how do we use this information to protect us in the future? And now you can hear it in our actual voices, which feels like the perfect way to experience it.

[00:17:34] A Little Bit Culty Navigating, Cults Control and Coercion is available now in hardcover, e-book, and audiobook, wherever you get your books. And if you've already picked it up, first of all, thank you. Second, if you enjoyed it, please take a minute to leave us a review. Reviews make a huge difference in helping new readers find the book. And we do read them. All of them. Then pass that hard copy along, give it to a friend, leave it on someone's nightstand. Maybe give it to someone who might be in a cult. You never know. And save the audiobook for your next long drive.

[00:18:04] Gardening marathon, dog walk, closet purge, or whatever activity makes you think, you know what could really improve this? A few hours of cult education. However you read it or listen or pass it along, we are so grateful you're part of this conversation. Enjoy.

[00:19:05] Break time's over. Let's get back to the show. Yeah. Yeah. I had that. That tracks. Yeah. As a strategy. Yeah. So when did you get, when did they lay out the actual OMing? So then, right. So at the, I guess I was showing my curiosity. I was showing my interest and I was talking to a staff member and I'm like, okay, they were like, you can come to the intro to OM.

[00:19:32] So the intro to OM course is then when you would learn orgasmic connotation. So of course I had to go to that because I was curious enough and skeptical enough, I should say, both to find out what the actual practice is. And again, where's the marriage between orgasm, female empowerment? Like, where is this all going? So I did go to that. And that is when I learned about the, that's when I saw the practice. As I, you know, I saw, watched it happen in front of me.

[00:20:02] What's that like to see it? Like I go to go from corporate to like a woman with her pants off. Yeah. Set this up for me. I'm like chilling in the corporate, walk in and then bang. It's like that. Yeah. There's a vagina. There's a vagina. Well, you know, what was interesting is that it was still corporate vagina. I mean, I hate to say it. Yeah, it was because like, like, I. The new term. Corporate. The corporate vagina. Well, because. Because again, it was. Business only.

[00:20:30] Because it was so clinical and it was so not sex sexy because a man in business casual attire comes out and then a woman who matches that vibe and aesthetic. Like a blazer? I mean, he had on, I believe his name is P.Y. And he had on a black collared shirt. It looked like satin or something. Like boots. No, I wish it was that cool.

[00:20:57] No, it was like something that you would, you know, like you would go into to get a car, like a car salesman or like a corporate, you know, it's like business. It's. And he was wearing that. And I think he had on slacks and he looked very put together and very professional. And Rachel, I believe, was, you know, she, I don't totally remember her outfit. I feel like she matched that aesthetic. So you're watching these people speak very businesslike.

[00:21:22] And yet they're about to do something extremely intimate and revealing and primal. Right. So they, yeah. So he came in, in his business outfit and they rolled out a steel table on wheels and the demo. I'm sorry to laughing. I'm not laughing at you. Just the whole. Yeah, of course. Also, I have the, I already have the title of this episode in my head. Painting the picture is the fun part. Corporate is called, this is the title of this episode.

[00:21:51] Corporate vagina. Yeah. Corporate vagina, star stone on one taste. Okay. Like this is it. The CPO. Corporate pussy officer. No? Chief pussy officer. Chief pussy officer. Was that a thing? No. It is now. And it's now. That's what we're doing. That's what we're doing. Okay. Okay. Sorry to interrupt. Okay. So she, they wheeled us as metal. It's not even like a soft massage table. You know how things get kind of thwarted in your mind after it's been 10 plus years? Yeah.

[00:22:21] Yeah. So in my mind, it was a steel table. Whether or not it was, in my mind has now said, that's what it was. So that's what we're going with. I thought there'd be a blanket at least or like some, you know. There's no blanket. No, there was no blanket. I would have remembered. No. It was definitely, you know, it kind of looked like you'd prepare meat on it or, you know, like it was like a chef, like a slab. Okay. Anyway, moving on. So, yeah.

[00:22:49] So they roll out a table and she gets up on the table and, you know, she's not wearing laundry. I mean, she's not, there's nothing. You know, she has her shirt on for the demo. It's, you know, shirt's still on. And so just naked from the waist down, which is what you do. This is what you'll learn later on. That's what you will be doing. So she's demonstrating the whole thing for you. So then he pulls out gloves and lube and yeah, and he's stroking her pussy for 15 minutes and we're all watching. And she has an orgasm. She has multiple orgasms. She's orgasming. No, no. No.

[00:23:19] So here's the thing. Here's the thing. Yeah. So I, so, so my trip was that I had never seen a woman come or orgasm. Like I didn't know what that looked like because as a woman in popular culture and in movies, right, like we're, they usually cut that scene. And this is, I'm talking about me in my generation growing up. Now we have access to, you know, female porn. We have lots of female gays. But at that time growing up, I had not, I don't.

[00:23:48] So my understanding of a woman having an orgasm was, you know, quite vocal and performative and loud. And, you know, that was what I thought I would hear from her if she was having an orgasm. And of course now I know that what porn represents for female sexuality and all of that is obviously not very real or natural.

[00:24:17] So accurate. Yeah. So, so her experience was very quiet. It was, she was like staying with her breath and in her body and kind of just feeling and being non-performative. So because she wasn't performing and because it wasn't some big, loud experience, I understood that as, oh, I don't think she had an orgasm because I couldn't hear or see anything in

[00:24:43] her physicality that would make me go, oh, here's the moment and right. And here's the payoff. And now she's relaxed. And so they actually explained to us that this is a goalless practice, that the goal wasn't to come or to have an orgasm. And that is when it got even more confusing. I get confused. I'm like, it's called orgasmic meditation.

[00:25:12] Is there not supposed to be an orgasm? Is there like, no, there's no goal. Like that's not, this practice is, it's not goal oriented. And yet their branding is all around having an orgasm that this practice can help you with that. Did that change the, that, cause I feel like Anthea, maybe it's been a while since we spoke to her, talked about how it was quite loud. And there were people as when they started doing the group oming that people would make

[00:25:40] a lot of noise or maybe that would like a chain, maybe it changed over time or something. It definitely did in my years because, which I can talk more about, but I think at least for the demo, for her demo, there was not any moaning or vocalization happening. No, I think there was, it was really soft. It was, I mean, there was something coming out of her mouth, but it wasn't meaning it wasn't to the extent where I was like, oh, I guess my, my reaction was that's it.

[00:26:10] I don't, that's it. Oh, maybe for her, was it a case by case thing or? When I finally went to like a group practice, my recollection is that it was not noisy. When I, that was at the center though, there were private home houses and private group practices and things got a little bit more vocal there. Absolutely.

[00:26:38] Things got, because we weren't in, staff wasn't present. Staff wasn't monitoring those. So people were louder. Yes. But for the demo, I didn't find it to be anything specific, like memorable to me enough for me to go, okay, this looks like very intriguing, very hot. Like it wasn't like that at all. So what was, if that wasn't compelling, what was it that hooked you to keep going? I wanted to feel it. I wanted to know what it felt like.

[00:27:08] I was really curious about that. And that's what made me, I was just curious about a technique and to try it. And what was that like for you? Was it a good experience? My first, no, it wasn't. You're going to be like this, just scroll. She just kept trying. I did. And to be clear, I, yeah. You have a great work ethic. I have a great, I wanted to get to the bottom of this. I felt like it was something that I needed to uncover and understand why was everyone so hooked on this thing?

[00:27:36] Because it was so popular and there were so many cities and there were so many people involved and everyone was talking so highly of it. So I didn't understand, okay, well, if the demo, if I'm on the show, I'm not seeing some big reaction from this practice. If it's goalless, then what exactly is it? So I went to a group practice. I tried it for my first time and it just felt transactional and clinical. It didn't feel, again, sexy. And the man had his clothes on again, like I'm dressed except from the waist down. And you're in a group, by the way.

[00:28:06] So it's just like tons of just pussies out everywhere, right? Like it's just like that, just everywhere. And you can't, but you can't really see it. I mean, you're kind of in your own little space because you're in what's called a nest. Just, you know, so you're just two pillows on the ground and you're kind of in a position where you do feel like you're more in a private space. But when I tried it, it just, I remember I talk about this in my show, but, you know,

[00:28:31] he was sweating and the glove was fogging and the sweat went on my labia folds and it was just, and he was like shaking. His finger was barely touching. It was just a very strange experience. And this didn't deter me either because I thought if only I can practice with someone who's more experienced, maybe a staff member or maybe someone who knows really the practice very well because I was paired with another new person. So I thought, okay, if I can be with someone who knows this practice more, maybe I'll have a different experience.

[00:29:00] So I had to try it again. And when I tried it that next time, I was right. It felt better because I was with someone who had been in the organization for a while and had better skills. And it actually felt a lot better to me. And when did you go from, okay, I got to get to the bottom of this to like, I don't know if you would say made it your life or got more committed or what level of commitment did you get to?

[00:29:24] Yeah. So it was a really interesting trajectory for me because it wasn't like, okay, take intro to OM and then sign up for a bunch of courses and get really involved. It was more like I met someone there through this practice that I just kept partnering with. It was interesting to me to build a sense of community.

[00:29:46] So I think I was drawn in more by the idea of regularly practicing with people and building a sense of connection and community. I had plenty of community in my life, to be quite honest, but I love community. And I was more invested, I think, in building community there. And I liked the people that I was meeting. So it kind of started off in that way. And then when I needed housing, something happened with my housing in Oakland. And I found out that they had housing.

[00:30:15] So really, I was already kind of circling the group practices and things like that. And then once I moved in with them, that's when I learned about more courses and started to take those and volunteering my time. And so it built sort of like a natural progression versus like I'm committing and doing all the things. Want in on the good stuff?

[00:30:38] Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com slash a little bit culty for bonus episodes, early access, ad free listening, and the warm feeling of knowing you're supporting independent podcasting. Truly could not do this without the patrons. No robes required.

[00:31:11] All right, everybody. That little break is over. Let's get back to our story. Do you think the housing propelled you to another level that you wouldn't have gone to otherwise? Well, the house is when I realized something's terribly wrong. I mean, because the people who were living in my house, they had been a part of One Taste from its early days.

[00:31:34] And I could really feel and hear that from them, that they had brought teachings that I had no knowledge of. They were the ones that sort of were carrying forward, I think, how things used to be. And the organization had changed so much by the time I got there that there was this, like, I'm like a new person coming in with how things are operating now. And they're carrying the older way of how things used to be. And so there was kind of like headbutting.

[00:32:02] Because by the time I got to the organization, I think they were already under FBI investigation. They had expanded so much. They were already kind of rebranding. Nicole was pretty far removed. And they had had a change of leadership a lot. And they were much more heavy into, like, the tech world. Things were already – they were already trying – at some point, they took away group practices from having them at the center. They were already making so many changes.

[00:32:27] And yet the people that I lived with, I think, had been in, like, there since the beginning. So they were giving us in the house, like, rules and practices that we had to do every day. Which, again, no one's checking on you to see if you've done them. But they were just suggested things, like things that you had to do, like have a bedmate, which I guess was a part of 1080 or some of the earlier – Was it 1080? I think 1080 was a space. I think so. Or the second – I don't really remember. But people talked about it.

[00:32:57] And Folsom and 1080, I don't know if they're at the same place or if they were two different places. But – What did it mean to have a bedmate? Oh, you shared your bed with one or two people. And was that assumed that you were going to also have sex with them or just sleep with them? Like, go to sleep with them? So, yeah, there was no assumption for sex. But, I mean, everyone was doing that, of course. But, I mean, I was unbelievably turned off by that.

[00:33:19] And I wanted to choose my bedmate instead of just having some person sleep next to me that I've never connected with before. So, I ended up pulling someone into the house, like asking someone to be my bedmate who didn't even live there just because I knew him just so that I could have someone that I knew be next to me. Because really they would just – because people were always leaving and going. Like it was very – a big turnover. So, you could just have your roommate off of, you know, Craigslist at that time or Facebook.

[00:33:49] I think we were maybe we were using Facebook for getting housing. But, yeah. How many people – what kind of – how many bedrooms? Like how many people were in this house? So, there were – if I'm recalling, there were only two bedrooms. But my bedroom had like three different beds in it. And there could be like four people in a bed at a time. I mean, yeah. And these were not particularly large beds. And, yeah, it was – I think it's hard to remember to be honest. But, yeah. This is my personal nightmare. Yeah.

[00:34:19] Well, I haven't even told you about the second house that I lived in yet. Oh, my God. Because I could live in another one. I moved houses actually. And what happened there? That was a completely different house. This was called – this was the Castro Ohm house. And this was really like a very cool setup actually. It was in the Castro. And it was multiple stories. And so, the top floor was all open. So, there's no walls, no rooms, no privacy. And there's just multiple beds all up in just like one space.

[00:34:48] So, that would have been fun for you. So, it was just all completely open. No doors, nothing. And you're just there. Like, how do you – what if you want to go to bed early? Like, what do you do? Ear plugs. Ear plugs. I mask. I wouldn't have lasted long there. Oh, my goodness. I sleep with so many accoutrements. I wouldn't last for sure. Sarah turns into a mummy. Yeah. Don't worry about me. Okay. So, you – I'm just imagining this. You know, we all have our –

[00:35:18] Yes, we do. We all have our boundaries of things that would, you know, make us not go forward. But this is fair to say that there's enough good that outweighs the challenges? Or like, what's keeping you in at this point? Yeah. Yeah. I think that at this point, I was starting to see that they had more to offer in terms of teachings around – well, just around being empowered by your sex. I was starting to now get into that. Because before, I was like, what does this have to do with anything?

[00:35:48] And why is this practice this way? And, you know, I had all these questions. And I felt like because I was around them more often, they were always – there was always things to do. Which, by the way, all the things that they gave you to do or events and things, again, didn't – they weren't always on the spot, as they would say, one-taste lingo. Like, they weren't – they didn't really have anything to do with anything. But they were just a way of exposing people to one-taste so that they could just get more

[00:36:11] people, you know, at their center to eventually pitch them courses and to get them involved. So, because I was there a lot and going to these different things, I felt like maybe there is a path for me here. Maybe I can step into some leadership and maybe I can become a coach in some way, a sex and relationships coach and support other women. And I – because they had asked me, like, what are, you know, your passions? Like, people ask me what I was doing there.

[00:36:40] I think that they knew that I was on to them. Like, I wasn't drinking the Kool-Aid very well. And I just felt – I think that at some point – I don't know. The way that I was moving about space, they definitely asked me questions. And I was like, well, you know, here are my interests and this is what I'm, you know, interested in. And from that, I just kept signing up for things. And I eventually ended up in the coaching program. I guess as long as you're paying, then you're a valid student. Yeah.

[00:37:09] I guess the question that comes up for me is what do you think all the incentives are and how did they conflict with yours? Yeah. I didn't feel like they – I didn't feel like there was much incentive, honestly. The way that the courses were, they had the Desire course and there was another one that I'm forgetting the name of, that were only like 100-something bucks in the intro to OM.

[00:37:35] And they were interesting to me, but they really hid programs. And I'm wondering if that was more on purpose. Like, the deeper you go, the more that's revealed, like, what other courses they offer, what other programs. They had retreats. They had things that I felt like – I was like, oh, I'm curious about this. But they weren't telling me about them, even if I asked. It just seemed like people who had been there longer in the organization knew about these courses because they had been there longer.

[00:38:01] So it felt to me like the longer that I stuck around, the more that they would open up and share these things with me. So that was an incentive. Yeah, like secrets. Oh, there's more here. If I just stick it out long enough, maybe I'll get to the thing. Like, maybe I will get to the root or the core of the onion or whatever the thing, you know, whatever metaphor we want to use.

[00:38:28] But there were just many layers to this organization that I really felt. And so the more that I stuck it out, the more that I learned that. Do you think they were financially driven? Absolutely. Absolutely. I don't understand how people were just dropping – I think it was like 10 grand or more on some – there were some courses. But I didn't – the thing is, is that those things weren't really pitched to me.

[00:38:58] Because again, like the way that the sales team worked, I mean, they were – they would get to kind of know you and choose people to sort of pitch courses to. Like, I think you'd be right for this. I think you'd be right for that. And yet no one was like, oh, yeah, you need a one-on-one with Nicole. Or, oh, yeah, you need to go – I didn't really get any of that. I willingly was like, I'm interested in the coaching program. Like, I want to know more about this. I had to approach them about that. And when they told me the cost, I said, okay, well, that's out of my budget. I can't do that. And they were like, yeah, you can just take out a credit card.

[00:39:28] Yeah. Thanks. No. So you did the coaching program or no? I started it and I dropped out halfway. Yeah. Once I got to the coaching program was when I realized, I think this is a scam. Like, what is this? Because they were drawing – nothing was cohesive. It felt like they were pulling teachings from all these different – it felt very like, let's throw things up on the wall and see what fits or see what's going to land.

[00:39:58] Like, it didn't make any sense to me. They just were drawing from so many different cultures. And I didn't understand what is the – what is the bottom line here? Like, what is the teaching? What is the program supposed to teach me? What am I getting out of this? It wasn't clear. Again, that's by design. Everything they were doing was creating confusion. I'm like, well, what exactly is this? A coaching program? Then why are you – why is this random subject being brought in?

[00:40:27] And why is this suddenly spiritual? And what – you know, it just – none of it made any sense to me. And I was just like, got to get – Yeah. Sorry to say, do you think that your yoga background of having – because, you know, there's also problems with yoga and we've done lots of episodes on it. But like yoga without the culty – you know, without the Yogi Bhajans and the Pithabi Joys and all the – The abusers. The abusers.

[00:40:52] Like, you can have a pure – you know, there's more structure to a clean yoga teacher training, I'm imagining. Do you think that maybe helped you see that this was not very cohesive? I think so. Absolutely. Because my understanding of a program that I'm investing in is it's like it's very clear step one, step two. You know exactly what – there's an outline, right? Yeah. You know what you're getting at the end of it and you know what you're there for

[00:41:19] and it's very clear why you're learning certain things and that it's all leading towards something. What's interesting too that you mentioned Pithabi Joys is that, you know, Nicole was a big into Bikram yoga and a lot of the people that were – yeah. I think – and a lot of the people who were there were really into Ashtanga and it's really interesting to me because I'm like, okay. Mm-hmm. Yeah. We have done an episode of Ashtanga. We haven't done Bikram because we just haven't found a whistleblower, but there's a documentary. I'm sure you've seen it. Yeah, there's a – Yeah, of course.

[00:42:05] All right, everybody. We're going to take a little break there. Come back this Thursday for part two with Star Stone. If you're finding this podcast helpful, please do us a solid.

[00:42:34] Drop a rating, leave a review, and hit subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're feeling extra culty, join our Patreon at patreon.com slash a little bit culty for early, ad-free episodes and all the bonus content. Even better, pass this episode along to someone who might need it. Maybe they're in a cult. Maybe they're just a little bit suggestible. Or maybe they just can't resist a good cult story. Oh, if you want the full download of everything we've learned over eight seasons, grab our new book, A Little Bit Culty.

[00:43:03] It's out now on Amazon, Audible, and anywhere you can get books. By the way, we narrated the Audible. It's super fun. Your local bookstore or library can order it too. Share the love and spread the culty wisdom. Thanks for listening and catch you next time on Season 9. A Little Bit Culty is a Trace 120 production. Executive produced by Sarah Edmondson and Nippy Ames in collaboration with producer Will Rutherford at Citizens of Sound. Our co-creator is Jess Temple-Tardy and our production coordinator is Leslie Dinsmore.

[00:43:30] Writing and admin by Sandra Namoto and social media marketing by Eric Skrasinski and Brooke Keene. Our theme song Cultivated is by the artists John Bryant and Nigel Aslan. Have you left a cult? Or are you trying to help someone who has?

[00:43:59] Then Decult 2026 Voices of Courage is for you. I'm Anke Richter, the founder of AustroAsia's unique Cult Awareness Conference that brings together leading experts, survivors, and victim advocates for two days of powerful conversations about healing and justice. Join us in Christchurch, New Zealand or online worldwide from 24th to 25th of October. Visit decult.net to be part of the change.