Hello Cultiverse 10/20/22

[00:00:00] The views and opinions expressed by A Little Bit Culty are those of the hosts. And don't reflect the official policy or position of the podcast, right Sarah? Correct. Any of the quote fire content, I prefer lava content, provided by our guests, bloggers,

[00:00:13] sponsors or authors of the opinion and are not intended to malign a religion, a group, a club, an organization, business individual, anyone or anything unless Sarah? You're a douchebag. Yeah, I mean pretty much. Also, we're not doctors, psychologists or wizards.

[00:00:29] We're just two non-experts trying to make you a friendly and formative podcast based on our experience that we've turned into wisdom. Okay, good talk. Okay. Hey everybody, Sarah Edmondson here. And I'm Anthony Ames, aka Nippy, Sarah's husband and you're listening to A Little Bit Culty,

[00:00:55] aka ALBC, a podcast about what happens when devotion goes to the dark side. We've been there and back again. A little about us, true story, we met and fell in love in a cult. And then we woke up and got the hell out of dodge.

[00:01:09] And the whole thing was captured in HBO docu-series The Vow, now in its second season. I also wrote about our experience in my memoir, Scarred, the true story of how I escaped Nexium, the cult that bound my life.

[00:01:21] Look at us, a couple of married podcasters who just happened to have a weekly date night. Or we interview experts and advocates in things like cult awareness and mind control. Oh wait, wait, this does not count toward date night bait. We got to schedule that, that's separate.

[00:01:34] So it's two days we gotta hang on? We do this podcast thing because we learned a lot on our exit ramp out of Nexium. It's still on that journey and we want to pay the lessons forward with the help of other cult survivors and whistleblowers.

[00:01:46] We know all too well that culty things happen. It happens to people every day across every walk of life. So join us each week to tackle these culty dynamics everywhere from online dating to mega churches and multi-level marketing. This stuff really is everywhere.

[00:01:59] The Cultiverse just keeps on expanding and so are we. Welcome to season five of A Little Bit Cultie, serving cult content and word salads weekly on your favorite podcast platforms. Learn more at alittlebitculti.com. Hey, Sarah Nippy here. Hello Cultiverse.

[00:02:32] Welcome to our little weekish check-in recap roundup of culty news and views. I would suck as like a Tom Brokaw. I have to get practice. Look, we can look back on this and look at how much better I got about it, right?

[00:02:46] I do feel that if you look at our original episodes from season one, we've grown. I'm embarrassed. A little bit embarrassed. And I'm really proud. Like we've gotten in our timeline, Evan Richelwood's episode. I know. I was joking.

[00:02:58] I know. Evan's episode dropped and that's been so great to interact with people to see how her episode has touched people. And it certainly did for me as I think that was obvious in the interview. Couple people wrote feeling annoyed that we didn't go into her story

[00:03:17] and they didn't know what we were talking about. We partly assume that most of our audience would know her story because of the niche that we're in, which is not a fair assumption because I'm sure many people haven't seen the documentary.

[00:03:28] But also you can watch the documentary and get caught up. We personally felt that we didn't want to do our normal format with Evan. How did you get in? How did you get out? How are you healing?

[00:03:40] Because she did it and Phoenix Rising and it's laid out so clearly. And if you don't know, it's really easy to watch the series. But here's what you need to go to one of the, I think it's HBO, right? That aired it. Max. Is that common?

[00:03:53] If you don't have HBO Max. The ecosystem of content now is more confusing than it was on the table. I wish we just merge into one platform. Whoever comes up with that app. Brilliant. You can watch it and I highly recommend watching it,

[00:04:05] but I also recommend preparing yourself emotionally. I had to watch it in about five sections. We had to stop. It was three episodes. Yeah, but I couldn't even get through an episode. It was so upsetting in a good way, I guess. Like it's a good documentary.

[00:04:18] It was just hard to watch. Marilyn Manson-Trolls, fuck off. Yeah, I mean put your anger somewhere else. Just park it there. We don't have to give them much more attention. They just go fuck themselves. Yeah. Okay. I have a little something from The Cultiverse. Oh yeah, do tell.

[00:04:30] I'm going to harken us back to a day. Call it 2015-ish Keith Ranieri, aka Vanduush, is doing one of his little forums and he's talking about like character. He was actually boasting about himself how he knows that there's no one that can fuck with his insides.

[00:04:49] Because he's such a... Because he's enlightened. He knows who he is and he knows because of all the adversity he's experienced, he knows his character and what it's made of. Right. Right? And he likened himself to a martyr and the martyr was,

[00:05:03] I think he called it St. Ignatius in the training, but it was really St. Lawrence. And St. Lawrence, so when he refused to yield to the Roman Empire... This is St. Lawrence, not Keith. Yes. Just to be clear. Thank you.

[00:05:16] He was being burned on one side and he looked up at his perpetrators and said, turn me over, I'm done. And Keith likened himself to that kind of person. In other words, not get me off the stake, I'm burning, but... Right.

[00:05:28] I'll say whatever you need me to say. Yeah, you'll never fuck with me because I'm so strong. Turn me over, I'm done on this side. It wasn't it? Turn it over, I'm done on this side? Turn me over, I'm done. On this side. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:05:39] Meaning like he's being flipped like a stake. Yeah. Here we are 2022 where little Keithy boy, convicted leader of nexium cult, Keith Reneary, has fought a lawsuit with his lawyers claiming he was attacked by a fellow prisoner and sex offender before being wrongly punished for the incident.

[00:05:56] Reneary was dizzy for days. He was dizzy for days? Dizzy for days, will you Keith? Oh, so dizzy. Suffered nausea and dizziness for a week after the attack, which also left him with black eye and swelling. Turn me over, I'm done.

[00:06:13] I wish you could see the face that bit me, making me now. What about, but he's a judo chap. How did he let this happen to him? Dude, just don't even. Non-violence, I guess. I guess he's in a real pickle, huh?

[00:06:26] Can't use his judo champion skills because he believes in non-violence. Yeah. So complicated that Keith. He really is. He will be studied for years to come. Not by me. Only feeding his ego internally. Okay. Into the 120 years. I also want to do a shout out to Loretta Lynn.

[00:06:46] Oh, tell me about Loretta Lynn. 90 years old. You guys might remember her as the coal miner's daughter, played by Sissy Spasic in the 1970 film. And it was one of the films my dad rented when we first had a VCR. And I just thought Loretta Lynn was pretty cool.

[00:07:03] And then I found out that she and another person recorded a song called You're the Reason Our Kids Are Ugly. And she recorded that with... This is a major drag, Nip. Conway. Dude, this is not interesting. I'm sorry. Conway, Twitty.

[00:07:20] I'm paying homage to Loretta Lynn, the coal miner's daughter. How is it part of the cultivars? It's not. It's paying homage to someone. Okay. Right? Mm-hmm. It's a sad day. You're the reason our kids are ugly. It's a great song, too.

[00:07:33] I just want to loop back to Reneary for a second because in the art of the field, in the article that I pulled up about that incident, he said, I was assaulted while walking to a table with my food in the dining hall. I did not fight back.

[00:07:47] Unquote. Should have. He should have. People have been talking about that and asking us how we feel. Listen, karma's a bitch. Re-put-you-so. Re-put-you-so. How do you like it? Cause and effect. How do you author it? The other thing I was going to bring up

[00:07:59] about the cultivars is that, apparently, and maybe we'll do an episode on this, but someone just sent us a link. Erica Hicks, thank you. Big, big supporter of us on The Social Meads sent us a link about celestial seasonings.

[00:08:14] So we don't have to get into the whole thing now, but I think most people know and will do another deep dive about the Kundalini Community, WH3HO, and they have the tea, Yogi Tea, and apparently that supports the company that is behind the alleged abuser Yogi Bajan.

[00:08:29] And this is another tea that is linked to a cult. Celestial seasonings, Sleepy Time Tea, which I've been, I don't have been doing recently, but when I was a teenager and young adult was my favorite tea. Little did I know that I was apparently supporting

[00:08:41] an alleged cult that believes in aliens and eugenics. So that's my news from the Cultiverse. See you then, more cults. I mean the list of the cults I have brushed by grows on the, on the dale. Okay. That's for the day, that's short for daily. Yeah, sure is.

[00:08:56] So do you want to play some? Yeah, let's go to the video tape. Hi, my name is Mary and I wanted to ask you something as I see was my cult whistleblowers experts. So I'm currently together with my friends from the cult

[00:09:15] and we are now in the process of exposing the cult. We experienced many threats and humiliations, as well as trauma memories and we tried to deal with normal life, children and work. And I wanted to ask you if you were to go back,

[00:09:39] what are the three, four things that you think are important to do in exposing a cult? What would you do differently? If you have any advice, are there any tips you could recommend us to speed up the process?

[00:09:57] It is a long process that we have been in for over a year and our energies are starting to run out. So if you have any tips on how to speed the process or to make it more efficient and effective, we'd like to, we'd love to hear it.

[00:10:21] We want the truth to come out and those people will go to jail. Thank you. Thank you, Mary. I think that's a really good question and I want to address it because a number of people have reached out more privately just to get advice on the process

[00:10:37] and I definitely have some thoughts about what to do and what not to do. Yeah, I would need more information but if media is an option, exhaust all avenues via media. And I think it is important to go to the authorities first.

[00:10:49] It's just, it's not always going to, depending on where you live and how well-versed people are in issues like coercive control, which we are going to do an episode coming up on that soon with an expert on the topics. Stay tuned.

[00:11:03] You know, when we went to the authorities, we don't know if they just didn't know what they were looking at or they were being bought off and time will tell. A little bit about it. Maybe both. Because there's certainly in multiple facets of the authorities,

[00:11:17] the local police, victim support unit. Once it got kicked to a higher office. Yeah, like I don't know if we just went to the wrong place or it was like... Well, it got filed in the lower district. Yes. And then as most people know,

[00:11:29] then we went to the New York Times and that article is what sparked the investigation in a different district in New York. So in our case, we were lucky. We're lucky in a lot of different ways. Things lined up for us that, you know,

[00:11:42] we're not in litigation for decades and the right people are behind bars in our opinion but it doesn't always turn out that way for people. I mean, there's a number of experts who have said they followed our case

[00:11:52] and they were just so amazed that the judge understood what he was looking at. Yeah, he got educated. He got educated. But I think the advice I would say based on our experience is... Well, first of all, if you're like getting out of a call,

[00:12:05] you have to heal is one thing and like some people go into advocacy too quickly. Well, they're also in the middle of trying to get out of it. Yes. Mary was saying she's out of it

[00:12:13] and she doesn't know if she wants to whistle below or if I have any tips. But I'd say, you know, connecting with somebody like Yanya Lalich and she's got an incredible workshop. We'll put that in our show notes and making sure that you heal or read her book.

[00:12:26] I think Nipi and I threw ourselves into it because we were... At least while I won't speak for you, I was trying to right the wrong of being a recruiter and being such an advocate of Next to You and our executive success programs for so long.

[00:12:37] So on the other side of it... I had a family and that was pretty important to be good for our kids. Yeah. But I think that a lot of people don't have the energy to speak out about something right away as they're healing. For sure.

[00:12:48] And who was it? Handsome football called... Hoyt. Hoyt, thank you. Hoyt Richard. Hoyt, that's my summary of you. Handsome football called... Thank you. Thank you. Carry on. Hoyt's it does like early on like you really don't want to be processing your trauma on film and we certainly were

[00:13:05] and that's what the vow captured and we're processing your trauma on tape which is what Josh Block captured in Escaping Nexium the precursor to all of this. Well, we're kind of thrown into a fight. Yeah. But like... Traged into a fight that they've turned into were the perpetrators.

[00:13:19] Yeah. So I think that in retrospect, you know, I almost wouldn't do anything differently because I'm happy with where we are now but another, you know, if I was to give people advice, I'd say make sure you're getting the therapy that you need along that journey

[00:13:32] and really think about if you have the strength to fight. It's a big fight. Certainly took away from our day to day and our family but now we get to reap the benefits. So I don't know any other thoughts?

[00:13:43] Maybe just get organized with the people that you're with and get on the same page because you guys definitely need to be united in this. That's true. You can't have any sort of like dissension and if you're going to do something united,

[00:13:53] you have to put your differences aside. It's vital and you're going to have to be like, Sarah, how many times did I talk you off of? Just let it go. Yeah. Let it go. Like that's not the objective here.

[00:14:05] The objective is we have one person to free ourselves from. Be myopic on that. Once that's happened, you can reconcile whatever differences you had with the people inside. Everyone's in trauma so it's going to be harder and that's one of the things that allows the perpetrator

[00:14:18] to thrive is because he knows you're in trauma. He puts you there and he knows your capacity to perform under trauma and he's going to press those buttons. Yeah. And I think if there's people that are getting out of a cult, they've probably been divided

[00:14:31] because that's what the cult leader will do. So you got to get like you said, maybe get united, maybe get a lawyer. The only people that can hurt you are the people that were your former friends. Right. And maybe even finding a media outlet.

[00:14:43] I mean, The New York Times is a big one, but if you look at some of the people who've written responsible articles about this stuff like Eve Thomas, for example, as somebody who really sought to understand coercive control and cults and wrote an incredible article for Al Canada,

[00:14:59] somebody like that, there's a number of journalists I would stay away from or reaching out to somebody like Jennings Brown to do a podcast or Josh Block, people who are journalists and understand what they're looking at and aren't going to ask you dumb questions like,

[00:15:12] well, why don't you just leave? And that's a red flag. It's obvious to me. Never would happen to me, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, that's my thought on that question. And how do you feel about season five launching? That's what I want to know.

[00:15:24] You know, it was strangely uneventful in a way that I anticipated it being a little bit more. It was partly because it was outshadowed by my son's 13 to 6 victory last night over the end of the team and now two and two, the Cougars go. Go Cougs. Go Cougs.

[00:15:37] I was actually more nervous for that than our drop. And we had a pretty full day. We were running everywhere. So it was a good day. It was a good day. We have great problems in our lives. Yes. Right? Well, we're also so excited about this Patreon thing.

[00:15:49] We're trying to welcome everybody individually. Oh, by the way, yes. You have no idea, Sarah and I were completely overwhelmed with the 20 plus people that signed up for Patreon on the first day. I don't know what to expect for this, but just to see that many people,

[00:16:03] that seems like a lot to me, 20 people. I think it's more now even. 10, I would have been happy with it to know that there's people out there that were affected in that way and that would be one to do that means everything.

[00:16:11] So Sarah says Patreon is my bitch. Is that what you said? Patreon is your bitch. I'm going to make Patreon my bitch. I'm going to be on there as much as I can. I'm going to have the window open on my computer

[00:16:20] and I'll answer emails as quickly as I can. Yeah. We hope we provide value there and that it's worth whatever you signed up for. Just know that I'm in the car a lot and it might be Sarah typing, but it's me speaking. From your heart? From my heart.

[00:16:32] You'll say that. You can put heart and you'll make those things until I get my office and right now our car is our office. No, we don't even have a car. We're just living in a box, remember? Oh, that's right. Sorry.

[00:16:44] I class hopped by the end of the episode. Anyway, no, it means everything to us to see that and it definitely gives us the fuel, validation and encouragement to keep doing what we're doing. So thanks everyone. Should I say we love you?

[00:16:56] Or is that a little bit too intimate? I think we love them. We love you. I mean, it's a different kind of love. It's a love and appreciation. The support from strangers blows my fucking mind. You get more support from strangers

[00:17:07] than you do from friends and family sometimes. It's true. It's true. That's a meme. It's already a meme. It's already a meme. Yeah. Maybe we'll send that to the meme queen. Yeah. And now here's a brief message from our sponsors. Tags.

[00:18:07] We're a portion of your purchase will be donated to local pantries. Together, we can combat hunger in our local communities at Macy's. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. What are your self-care non-negotiables? Maybe you never skip leg day or never miss yoga.

[00:18:23] Maybe it's getting eight hours of sleep. I mean, that's my personal and everyone's dream, isn't it? Well, I definitely have some non-negotiables. Like I'm in Vancouver right now and I'm spending literally as much time as I can outside of nature. Hashtag cold pools, hashtag crushing it.

[00:18:38] Nature is a non-negotiable. Not enough time in the fresh air and the trees around me and I start to feel not great, not myself, not grounded. Therapy day is a bit like my nature walks. I try to not miss it

[00:18:48] and I know I'm just going to feel so much better all around if I make it a priority. I get so much out of it. It helps me put my worries and anxieties in their rightful place and helps me clear my mind

[00:18:57] so I can focus on what I really need and sometimes what I don't need. Like I don't need to be overbooking myself just because I hate to say no to people. You know what I mean? Thanks, therapy. Thanks for helping me see that.

[00:19:06] And if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire and get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists any time for no additional charge.

[00:19:20] Look, even when we know what makes us happy, it's hard to make time for it. But when you feel like you have no time for yourself, non-negotiables like therapy are more important than ever. Never skip therapy day with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash culty today

[00:19:33] to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash culty. Sarah here. Ann Nipi. You've reached the a little bit culty listener line. Thanks for calling and letting us know what's on your mind and in your heart. My sensitive side.

[00:19:50] Now let her rip after the beat. You know what to do. Hey, it's Sarah and Nipi. This is Eve from New Jersey. Thank you so much for all the advocacy work that you're doing. I think it's really important.

[00:20:01] I wanted to make a comment about the Evan Rachel Wood interview. First off, I loved Phoenix Rising. And one of the reasons I appreciate that documentary is because Evan does an excellent job at pinpointing exactly where Brian was abusive and defining that abusive power.

[00:20:19] And people who are in those lifestyles, the Gothic lifestyle, the queer lifestyle, it's our previous conversations about abuse and sexual fetishes often get very blurred and we associate the lifestyle with the abuse. That used to be very evident.

[00:20:39] I know when I was growing up in the 80s and the 90s, if you engaged in these kinds of lifestyles, those lifestyles of themselves were abusive. And I think we need to do a better job culturally separating the two. There is a space to engage in sexual fetishes

[00:20:57] that's completely consensual and can even deepen the intimacy within a relationship. However, if we consistently compare abuse with a sexual fetish, as a result, the audience will come away thinking that any kind of sexual fetish will lead to abuse. And that in and of itself just isn't true.

[00:21:20] There are a documentary that does a really good job at separating the two is Camus Bells. Documentary on Showtime called We Need to Talk about Cosby, where within all of the people that he interviewed, one of them was a sex educator.

[00:21:37] And the sex educator specifically pointed out that there is a space for somebody to engage in role play, to engage in, we're dominant submissive behavior, but in a completely consensual way. And I think we just need to talk about that a little bit more

[00:21:57] and discuss and educate people to clearly understand where, when a, you know, something that could be consensual when it turns to be non-consensual identifying what that looks like. And I think that can be much more beneficial to a wider audience. Thank you so much for everything you do.

[00:22:18] I appreciate it. What's up guys? What's up guys? Long time listener, first-time caller. Also I'm from the ATL so glad you people are headed back or for the first time for you Sarah, you'll love it. Nippy here's the deal. I cannot hear anyone say, you know,

[00:22:36] it's interesting without thinking a total word salad is about to come. In conversations when I'm talking with my friends every time anyone says the word, it's interesting. 100% I hear you in my head. So thanks for all you guys are doing.

[00:22:52] Thanks for jumping into my mind throughout the regular day as people are having conversations and saying something's interesting. Love you guys, support you so much and you're my favorite podcast. Have a good one. Hey Sarah Nippy, it's Allison from Sydney, Australia. We've spoken before Nippy.

[00:23:10] I know you like my accent. I just wanted to come to your voicemail to say thank you for sharing that episode with Eckhart. It was the best episode I've listened to. I know I say that about a lot of your episodes.

[00:23:22] It had a lot of moments in there with me which will help with my educational piece for helping people that are leaving Colts. The parts that resonated with me the most were when he was talking about, you know, why people join Colts and how they get us in

[00:23:39] but also the last 10 minutes of that conversation where he's, you Sarah, you asked a really valid question about businesses and businesses, how they turn into Colts. That was really important for me because I'm studying a new branch of my business and I am opening a yoga studio.

[00:23:56] So I do have concerns about it becoming Colty and I know that we've spoken about this before Sarah. So I was really grateful to hear his insights on that and you know, checking in on yourself is a big thing, right? To not make that my identity.

[00:24:12] So I've shared those sorts with my husband and they'll all be in our business plan. And yeah, so thank you once again for everything you do. Keep producing guys. It's gold medal stuff. Thank you. Hi Sarah and Nippy. It's Christine calling from Calgary.

[00:24:29] I just listened to Eckhart part one and that's my mind exploding. I really liked your interview with him. I cannot wait for more and I have been a long time follower on and off throughout the years of

[00:24:51] Eckhart's work and you know, I couldn't help but think about people's reaction to Eckhart as your guest and people being critical that he is a little bit Colty. And it got me thinking about Eckhart's work and sometimes the way he communicates is word salad-esque.

[00:25:20] And so the deeper you go into his work, the more it does seem to make sense but I have to admit that there are times where I think it's a little too esoteric and it can leave the listener feeling like

[00:25:39] what WTF this is some other planet that this character's on and therefore I don't trust him whatsoever. So that's the comment part. The question piece is around Sarah. When you met Eckhart in Vancouver and I know he hangs around coffee shops

[00:26:00] and he's like quite visible in Vancouver, but then the fact that he was so open and willing to spend time with you over a number of years and I just can't help but feel like

[00:26:14] that some kind of divine intervention or if you don't believe in that the universe putting in front of you exactly what you need when you need it. And I wondered if you could comment further on that because I know you're a little more

[00:26:31] woo than Nipias, but perhaps you'd be willing to comment on air about the significance from your perspective of Eckhart popping up in your life and then becoming an ally for you and someone to work with as you are healing. Love you both.

[00:26:51] Keep up the good work. Keep kicking ass out there. Love your show. Bye. Just to wrap the week, Evan's episode dropped and I want to point out how I got out posted on Instagram and I wanted to share this with our listeners. It's a perfect example of how

[00:27:07] cultiness can fly under the radar but so many aspects of the relationship are the same. Grooming, gaslighting, flying monkeys, physical sexual abuse, collateral, phobia induction and sleep and food deprivation. And I did see some chatter and some conversations

[00:27:22] which we love on our Instagram, which can also go over to Discord now if you remember of Patreon that somebody said they didn't see how they were the same and they had been in a cult and

[00:27:31] been sexually and physically abused by their partner and they only saw a little bit of an overlap and I think it's case by case. Yeah, for sure. But I'm excited about this episode because it gets us out of the direct cult lane but

[00:27:45] shows you where the cults are everywhere. Yes? So those were our voice messages for the day. We'll have more over on Patreon. Let's end with a good and a bad review, shall we? Oh, let's do it. Okay. So this is my favorite bad one that I've ever heard.

[00:28:00] It's so good. It's so good. I get killed. Here it is. LaGrangemom who said, stop the constant explaining. And this is so funny because this week we got feedback we didn't explain enough. So stop the constant explaining.

[00:28:14] Ditchnipple. He sounds like he's half asleep and useless to the content of the show. I mean, you do sound sleepy sometimes but... What's wrong with being half asleep? Well, I mean, you might want to show up a little bit more away, have a coffee.

[00:28:27] But you're not useless. You're a key part of this. Have you heard my voice? It's like honey. Ditchnipple? Let's hear the five stars for Nippy. Ditchnipple. Let's hear the five stars. No love for Nipple. It's not my best feature but

[00:28:39] still love for that. You have very cute nipples, baby. Okay. Here's the five stars from Robby Slee. Oh my gosh, Nippy's word salad was spot on today. Love the show, helps my wife and I

[00:28:51] continue processing the cultic abuse who went through. Always healing. Keep it up. Three exclamation points. Also you sounded a little bit sleepy when you said that. Do you want to read it? I think Nippy needs a coffee. Did you want to read it in your pepiness?

[00:29:01] You know, the internet giveth and the internet takeeth away. Haven't I been saying that? Keeps us grounded. I haven't been saying that. You can't win them all. You can't win them all. I haven't I've been saying that.

[00:29:09] The irony is that one of my issues, if you've read my book, you'll know that they said I had like me disease. Like I cared too much what people thought of me. My first time I ever had

[00:29:16] what's quote having my life issue elicited. Nancy said you have the capacity to be a great leader but you have to overcome your attachment to being liked and nothing will ever help you

[00:29:26] other than being in the cover of New York Times saying you were part of a sex cult and starting a podcast will make you overcome your like me attachment than those three things.

[00:29:35] But also, isn't your capacity to get people to like you one of the things that makes you a good leader? So it's a conundrum. Well there's upsides and downsides to everything. Who's in jail right now and who's not? Non sequitur but fair enough.

[00:29:48] So that's it. Again join us for more of this on Patreon and be sure to leave us a voicemail over a little bit culty dot com slash voicemail and we might answer it on air very soon. Hit us up. This is the golden age of cult recovery.

[00:30:04] The more we speak up and share our stories, the more we realize we are not alone. Your voice and your story can empower others. This is Sarah and I'm proud to be a founding collaborator of the hashtag I got out movement.

[00:30:18] Learn more at I got out dot org. The Frankies were a picture perfect influencer family but everything wasn't as it seemed. I just had a 12 year old boy show up here asking for help. He's emaciated, he's got tape around his legs. Ruby Frankie is his mom's name.

[00:30:44] Infamous is covering Ruby Frankie, the world of Mormonism and a secret therapy group that ruined lives. Listen to Infamous wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. What are your self-care non-negotiables? Maybe you never skip leg day or never miss yoga.

[00:31:05] Maybe it's getting eight hours of sleep. I mean that's my personal and everyone's dream isn't it? Well, I definitely have some non-negotiables like I'm in Vancouver right now and I'm spending literally as much time as I can outside of nature. Hashtag cold pools, hashtag crushing it.

[00:31:20] Nature is a non-negotiable not enough time in the fresh air and the trees around me and I start to feel not great not myself not grounded. Therapy day is a bit like my nature walks.

[00:31:29] I try to not miss it and I know I'm just going to feel so much better all around if I make it a priority. I get so much out of it. It helps me put my worries and anxieties in their rightful place and helps me clear my

[00:31:39] mind so I can focus on what I really need and sometimes what I don't need like I don't need to be overbooking myself just because I hate to say no to people you know what I mean? Thanks therapy, thanks for helping me see that.

[00:31:48] And if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire and get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists any time for no additional charge.

[00:32:02] Look, even when we know what makes us happy it's hard to make time for it. But when you feel like you have no time for yourself, non-negotiables like therapy are more important than ever. Never skip therapy day with BetterHelp.

[00:32:13] Visit betterhelp.com slash culty today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp H-E-L-P dot com slash culty. Hope you liked this episode. Let's keep the conversation going and come hang out with us on Patreon where we keep the tape rolling each week.

[00:32:54] Special episodes just for Patreon subscribers and where we get deep into the weeds of unpacking every episode of the vow. And if you're looking for our show notes or some sweet, sweet swag or official ALBC podcast merch or a list of our most recommended cult recovery resources

[00:33:09] visit our website at alittlebitculti dot com. And for more background on what brought us here, check out Sarah's page-turning memoir. It's called Scarred, the True Story of High Escape Nexium, The Cult That Bound My Life. It's available on Amazon, Audible, Narrated by My Life, and at most bookstores.

[00:33:24] A Little Bit Culty is a talkhouse podcast and a Trace 120 production. We're executive produced by Sarah Edmondson and Anthony Nipy Ames with writing, research and additional production support by senior producer Jess Tardy. We're edited, mixed and mastered by our rocking producer Will Rutherford

[00:33:40] of Citizens of Sound and our amazing theme song, Cultivated, is by John Bryant and co-written by Nigel Asselin. Thank you for listening.