Voices From Beyond: Jonathan Mark on NXIVM’s Unsolved Mysteries

[00:00:00] This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, medical, or mental health advice. The views and opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business, individual, anyone, or anything.

[00:00:24] I'm Sarah Edmondson.

[00:00:25] And I'm Anthony Nippy Ames. And this is A Little Bit Culty.

[00:00:30] Cult's are commonplace now. From fandoms to fads, we're examining them all. We look at what happens when things that seem like a great thing at first go bad.

[00:00:38] Every week we chat with survivors, experts, and whistleblowers for real culty stories told directly by the people who lived through them. Because we want you to learn a few things that we've had to learn the hard way.

[00:00:49] For example, if you think you're too smart to get sucked into something culty, you might be prime recruitment material. And who knows? You could already be in a cult.

[00:00:57] If you're not aware of your programming, you're probably being programmed. So keep listening to find out.

[00:01:02] We'll talk about all sorts of topics on the show, but be aware, this podcast might contain stories that could be alarming to some of our listeners. So please check our show notes for more detailed descriptions and take care of yourself.

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[00:01:22] Welcome to season seven of A Little Bit Culty.

[00:01:27] Welcome to the Dead to the Ocean.

[00:02:05] And I'm also going to guess that we might take a little bit of shit for it.

[00:02:09] You know what? It doesn't matter.

[00:02:11] We don't care.

[00:02:11] Take shit.

[00:02:12] It's our podcast.

[00:02:13] You're never going to get it right with people. That's fine.

[00:02:15] And for those of you who are into it, I know you'll enjoy it. For those of you who are skeptics, just skip it. If you don't like it, skip it.

[00:02:22] Yeah. Go listen to one of our good ones.

[00:02:24] But don't write to us and tell us how this is off-brand because we know it's off-brand and we're doing it anyway.

[00:02:28] And we get to do it because it's our podcast.

[00:02:30] So, yeah.

[00:02:31] Okay.

[00:02:33] So today's guest is Jonathan Mark.

[00:02:36] And he's a psychic medium who uses his gift to provide closure to families through readings.

[00:02:43] He also helps law enforcement solve cold cases.

[00:02:47] For example, he rose to national prominence after assisting law enforcement in the Gabby Petito case.

[00:02:52] And if you don't know that, put Gabby Petito in your Google search.

[00:02:56] And I didn't know much about Gabby Petito until I heard Jonathan on Kate Casey's podcast.

[00:03:01] And the way that he did a reading about some unsolved mysteries, I thought, you know what?

[00:03:07] I would love to invite Jonathan on a little bit called D and see if we can get some answers to some of the many unresolved components of NXIVM.

[00:03:15] And we did.

[00:03:17] Oh, did we ever.

[00:03:19] I don't even know where to start except skeptics kind of skept, but he knew some stuff that only I knew.

[00:03:28] Yeah.

[00:03:28] And listen, even though I absolutely enjoyed this episode and this interview so much and was super touched and emotional,

[00:03:35] I also had in the back of my mind how skeptical listeners would listen and could say,

[00:03:40] well, that you could find in Sarah's book and you could find this and that on the internet.

[00:03:43] That's fine.

[00:03:44] I happen to know Jonathan now and strongly believe that he does not do any research.

[00:03:49] That's what he says.

[00:03:50] But in addition to that, there were a number of very specific details that there's no way that he could know.

[00:03:55] Also, Sarah, you know me.

[00:03:56] Nippy, numberoneskeptic.com.

[00:03:58] I think a lot of our audience has an impression of me with this stuff.

[00:04:03] And just listen.

[00:04:04] Just listen.

[00:04:05] Listen with an open mind.

[00:04:06] And I hope you enjoy it as much as we did.

[00:04:08] I got a really good sense of his gift because he also invited me to be on his podcast and he did a reading for me regarding my grandfather that was, again, details nobody could know and was very emotional.

[00:04:19] So I believe in his gift and I'm excited to have him on.

[00:04:23] And while he's not a whistleblower or cult expert, he offered his gift today to conduct a reading with members of NXIVM who have passed on.

[00:04:30] Again, we know there's skeptics out there, but we think you'll find this profoundly moving.

[00:04:34] So please listen with an open mind and enjoy.

[00:04:54] Jonathan, Mark, welcome to A Little Bit Calti.

[00:04:56] Thank you for having me.

[00:04:57] Super excited.

[00:04:58] So are we.

[00:04:59] We've been excited since this was booked.

[00:05:00] And huge shout out to Kate Casey who connected us.

[00:05:04] And she's been nothing but supportive of our podcast and it seems like has been of you too.

[00:05:09] And we're grateful for her.

[00:05:11] She's the one who encouraged you to have a podcast, right?

[00:05:13] Yeah.

[00:05:14] She, for years, she's been like, you need to do this.

[00:05:17] And I'm like, I'm too scared to do it.

[00:05:18] I don't want to do it.

[00:05:20] And then eventually I was like, you know what, I'm just going to try it out.

[00:05:23] And I love it now.

[00:05:24] You enjoying it?

[00:05:25] You know, it's a little stressful.

[00:05:27] I'm not going to lie.

[00:05:29] I'm enjoying it, but I'm definitely like stressed about it a lot.

[00:05:34] You know, it's definitely taking a lot out of me.

[00:05:36] Yeah, it does.

[00:05:37] Well, if we can offer any podcasting advice, we're four years in, please feel free to pick

[00:05:42] our brain.

[00:05:43] I'm happy to share what we learned.

[00:05:45] Thank you.

[00:05:45] How long have you been at it?

[00:05:46] I just started in August.

[00:05:48] Oh.

[00:05:49] Yeah.

[00:05:49] So I'm still very, very new.

[00:05:56] It is a lot.

[00:05:57] It's a full-time thing.

[00:05:59] And I know you have other things going on, including helping law enforcement and solving

[00:06:03] cases.

[00:06:04] And for our audience who doesn't know your journey, can we just do a little bit of a background

[00:06:08] and then we'll get into the NXIVM stuff as we've been planning?

[00:06:11] From what I understand, you've had this gift since you were quite little.

[00:06:15] What was the first indication that you were able to communicate with deceased?

[00:06:20] When I first started seeing, I think, people or, you know, spirits, whatever people want

[00:06:24] to call it, it was my aunt who passed away.

[00:06:27] I was only six months old when she passed.

[00:06:29] And, you know, just like majority of people, I would assume people have pictures of their

[00:06:33] family, friends, people who passed away in their home to like honor them or just to keep

[00:06:36] them around.

[00:06:38] And when I was a kid and her name was Susan, I would say, and Susie's here.

[00:06:42] And everyone's like, that's cute.

[00:06:43] There's pictures, you know, in the kitchen and, you know, in the hallway, whatever.

[00:06:48] So I was about four, I want to say.

[00:06:50] And it was Easter.

[00:06:51] And my grandfather was there and my mom's other sister.

[00:06:53] And I walk over to him and I go, oh, Susie's here.

[00:06:56] And Susie's here.

[00:06:57] And he's like, okay, very Italian grandfather.

[00:07:00] He's like, okay.

[00:07:02] And they thought I had imagination, but then no fault to my parents.

[00:07:06] They had me in the denim, denim outfit, like the top and the bottom matching, like the Canadian

[00:07:11] tuxedo when I was a kid.

[00:07:13] And I kept like pulling at it.

[00:07:15] And I was saying like, Susie's in this, like, like Susie's in this.

[00:07:18] And I was getting mad because like no one was understanding what I was saying.

[00:07:21] And like, I was trying to tell them what I was seeing.

[00:07:24] And my grandfather was like, what the heck is this kid saying?

[00:07:26] And my mom walks around, because this was Easter, walks around.

[00:07:30] And my mom tells a story to everyone.

[00:07:32] This is only the reason why I know into detail about this.

[00:07:35] And she starts crying, like hysterically crying.

[00:07:38] And my grandfather was like, what the heck is going on?

[00:07:40] So my mom and my aunt were best friends.

[00:07:43] She lived with my mom up until she passed.

[00:07:45] And there was, you know, they would steal clothes from each other and stuff.

[00:07:48] And there was this one jean jacket that they would steal constantly back from each other.

[00:07:53] And after the service was over, when everyone went to the cars to drive to the cemetery,

[00:07:58] my mom beelined it in and put a jean jacket in the casket.

[00:08:02] So it was just between her and Susie.

[00:08:05] Like no one else knew.

[00:08:06] Like her father didn't know.

[00:08:07] Her other sister didn't know.

[00:08:09] So when my mom told them that, my grandfather turned to me.

[00:08:13] He's like, what is wrong with this kid?

[00:08:15] Like what's going on?

[00:08:16] Like, you know, like no one knew really what it was.

[00:08:18] And then as I was getting older, I started to realize what I was seeing and stuff wasn't

[00:08:24] what everyone else was.

[00:08:26] And I wanted to be as like, quote unquote, normal as possible.

[00:08:29] Like playing sports, you know, doing stuff with my friends.

[00:08:32] So I stopped speaking about it.

[00:08:34] Like completely stopped speaking about.

[00:08:36] But as I was getting older, the messages were coming in clear.

[00:08:39] I was seeing things about my family that I wish I never saw.

[00:08:44] Like really intimate things of people.

[00:08:47] Like the worst things that you can imagine for a woman to happen with a family member.

[00:08:51] And it was like two of my family members and no one knew about it.

[00:08:55] And then I said something when I was a kid.

[00:08:57] No one really said anything.

[00:08:59] Then as I got older and this gift developed a little bit more, I said it again.

[00:09:03] And because it was coming through and it, I guess, like broke everything in my family

[00:09:10] a little bit because then it started like unraveling certain things within my family

[00:09:13] with this one person and someone else in my family.

[00:09:16] And so when I was about 20, I was going off to college to play lacrosse, 18 to 20.

[00:09:21] You know, I went to like a community school first to get my grades up and to also get some

[00:09:26] more looks for lacrosse.

[00:09:27] And, you know, I turned on my mom and I said, is there any mental illness in the family?

[00:09:32] And she's like, what are you talking about?

[00:09:34] And I explained to her what I was seeing is coming through way more clear and like a lot

[00:09:38] more.

[00:09:39] And I think I'm schizophrenic.

[00:09:41] Like I thought I was schizophrenic for a while.

[00:09:43] And it wasn't until I went to a medium because my mom's like, I'm going to one.

[00:09:47] Like, do you want me to ask this person?

[00:09:49] And I don't know about you guys, but I thought a medium was like the nails, the crystal ball,

[00:09:53] the hair.

[00:09:54] And I was like, I don't know.

[00:09:55] I'm like, I guess.

[00:09:56] I'm like, I don't know what this is.

[00:09:58] But so when our break comes, I go to this medium and she's like, yeah, you have this

[00:10:03] gift and it's pretty big.

[00:10:04] Like, do you want to learn?

[00:10:06] And I was like, hell no.

[00:10:08] Hell no.

[00:10:09] And I was like, no, I want to go back to school.

[00:10:11] I want to play lacrosse.

[00:10:12] I want to party.

[00:10:13] I want to do what everyone.

[00:10:14] And then literally in the car, I'm like, shit.

[00:10:18] I'm like, I should have said yes.

[00:10:19] Because I always wanted to help people.

[00:10:21] Like, I was getting recruited to like Army, Navy, and I was going to go and try and do

[00:10:24] that route for lacrosse and then serve after and, you know, just things like that.

[00:10:29] And so I came back home and I kind of developed this gift thanks to my mom.

[00:10:34] She would bring in friends that I've never met, co-workers that I've never met.

[00:10:38] And essentially practice makes perfect, I feel like, with anything, with stuff.

[00:10:42] And I just continue to go.

[00:10:44] And then I started reading law enforcement and I was going through the NYPD, you know,

[00:10:48] process, the academy and everything.

[00:10:49] How did they find you?

[00:10:51] How did you connect with law enforcement?

[00:10:52] It's interesting.

[00:10:53] So through when I was practicing, when I was in college, kind of, the friend of a friend

[00:10:58] of a friend, because I had no social media.

[00:11:00] I didn't want anyone to know I was doing this.

[00:11:02] I didn't want my friends to know.

[00:11:03] I didn't want anyone to know.

[00:11:04] That's why I go by Jonathan Mark.

[00:11:06] That's not my last name.

[00:11:07] I didn't want people to know like what I was doing.

[00:11:10] And through referrals, like a Fed's wife came.

[00:11:13] A Fed's wife came and I guess the reading went well.

[00:11:17] And she went back to him and she's like,

[00:11:19] you're on this case, the Long Island serial killer case.

[00:11:22] You have nothing to lose.

[00:11:23] Nothing to lose.

[00:11:25] Go see this kid.

[00:11:26] And as a law enforcement person, he's like, this is bullshit.

[00:11:29] He's like, no way.

[00:11:30] Like, I'm not doing this.

[00:11:31] So he would send people to test me to see like, give fake names, see if that would come,

[00:11:36] like things like that.

[00:11:37] And then it just kind of went from word of mouth from working on one case to the next,

[00:11:41] to the next, to the next through law enforcement from this person's wife.

[00:11:45] Like, that's how it started.

[00:11:46] How do you deal with the people that are just bullshit from the get?

[00:11:49] Like, I imagine you run into that like all the time.

[00:11:52] They just go.

[00:11:52] Oh, like if I'm reading a client or something?

[00:11:54] Yeah.

[00:11:55] Who's skeptical and like, I mean, that might, I imagine that's a lot of your apprehension

[00:11:59] too, right?

[00:12:00] Yeah.

[00:12:01] And that's kind of why I always tell people to sit down for 10 minutes with like a semi

[00:12:05] open mind.

[00:12:05] Like, don't go into it being like, fuck this or whatever.

[00:12:09] Like, go into it at least with someone of an open mind.

[00:12:11] Right.

[00:12:11] And I read a lot of athletes and I read a lot of like law enforcement and a lot of them,

[00:12:15] even with doing what I do, they still are skeptical and they come in with whatever.

[00:12:19] But then when you say this one thing that no one else knows, you see something like,

[00:12:23] it's like a weight off of their shoulders with that too.

[00:12:26] And then it just kind of just goes.

[00:12:28] Yeah.

[00:12:28] You earn it.

[00:12:29] You have to earn it every time.

[00:12:31] Was there a particular case that you broke open or were able to shine light on that took

[00:12:35] you to this next level?

[00:12:37] I would think it, you know, for a while I wasn't even sharing that I was working with

[00:12:41] law enforcement.

[00:12:42] Kay Casey was really the only person that knew.

[00:12:44] And she's like, you have to start telling people.

[00:12:47] Like, she's like, this is insane.

[00:12:48] Cause I would call her.

[00:12:49] But Gabby Petito is probably the one that kind of broke people like, like, holy crap.

[00:12:53] Like when Gabby's mom came out and law enforcement came out and like validated and acknowledged

[00:12:59] everything.

[00:12:59] That's when I think a lot of people were like, okay, like this is real.

[00:13:03] Amazing.

[00:13:04] And what was it for those people who don't know the case?

[00:13:06] What was it that you were able to see or bring to the table that was helpful that they

[00:13:10] didn't know?

[00:13:11] So, so what happened was in the very beginning when Gabby was missing, they thought that she

[00:13:15] was potentially still alive.

[00:13:17] And I basically, what started it was I said, it's not a search and rescue.

[00:13:21] It's a search and recover.

[00:13:23] I'm like, if I'm connecting to Gabby, that means she's not here.

[00:13:25] I can't connect to someone who's living.

[00:13:27] Like that just doesn't work.

[00:13:29] And then I helped locate the body with like what was going on.

[00:13:34] And then from there it was just like, okay, now part two is like firing Brian Laundrie.

[00:13:39] Right.

[00:13:40] And I was like, that's a little bit more difficult because he's alive.

[00:13:43] But I told them months before what was going to happen with him about taking his own life

[00:13:48] with a gun and the note, like this was set in September and he died, I think November

[00:13:53] or December, like months later.

[00:13:56] And then that's when they called me again.

[00:13:57] They're like, you can't make this up.

[00:13:59] We have recordings of this.

[00:14:00] Like you can't make this up.

[00:14:02] They're like, there's the date stamp and everything.

[00:14:05] And from there, it just opened up, I think more doors to help out with other cases that

[00:14:10] need it.

[00:14:11] It must be hard to know how to spend your time.

[00:14:13] So we appreciate you doing it with us.

[00:14:16] How would you describe it?

[00:14:18] Like, is it like a spiritual thing?

[00:14:21] Is it physical or is it, is it mostly like a visceral?

[00:14:25] Do you see it, feel it?

[00:14:26] Like what's the apparatus and like, how does it come to you?

[00:14:29] And are you in control of it?

[00:14:31] Because when you were talking, I was like, okay, if you didn't want this and you had

[00:14:35] this, it seems like it's something that was finding you out of your control.

[00:14:39] And then finally you're embracing it and then you're getting control of it kind of thing.

[00:14:45] Like.

[00:14:46] No, that's a great way to explain it.

[00:14:48] Because if you're resistant to it and didn't want to do it and it was like, it's calling

[00:14:52] you for some reason, right?

[00:14:53] I was very resistant.

[00:14:55] Like literally until I was 25, I like was very resistant to it.

[00:14:58] Like I was just like, I wanted my normal life.

[00:15:01] The police, like, like that was my life.

[00:15:04] And I was pretty resistant.

[00:15:06] And basically the best way I can explain when it comes.

[00:15:09] And I guess when I connect, it's like Pictionary.

[00:15:13] So it's kind of like they put symbols in my head.

[00:15:16] And then when it gets to the specific messages, it's like screenshots on your phone and they

[00:15:20] kind of go really quick.

[00:15:21] So if I was to see, I'm going to use my name as an example.

[00:15:24] If I start flashing in my head, that means that I know the person that's coming through

[00:15:29] is Jonathan.

[00:15:31] Like, so they try to take parts of my life or things I've seen in movies to make it the

[00:15:35] specific messages if I've never gone through something.

[00:15:38] So it's kind of like a Pictionary.

[00:15:40] And trust me, if you guys need a partner, I'm your guy.

[00:15:43] If you need a partner for Pictionary because of like, that's literally how it comes through.

[00:15:47] But then when this specific messages come, it's like screenshot of stuff.

[00:15:51] So I'm able to kind of like see it very quickly and I can't control it.

[00:15:55] So you have to read, interpret it and add language to it.

[00:15:57] Yeah.

[00:15:58] And that's what I tell people too, which is like a little difficult.

[00:16:00] I think people think it's like a perfect science and it's really not because I can misinterpret

[00:16:05] something.

[00:16:06] Like I'm a human.

[00:16:07] It's like they created their own language on that side and they're trying to, I guess,

[00:16:11] teach me it.

[00:16:12] And I'm still learning every day different things that are coming through, especially with

[00:16:16] working on these cases.

[00:16:17] There's some things I've never, one, been through or two have seen like actually.

[00:16:22] So it's like really hard to sometimes deliver messages when I don't really know the true

[00:16:27] meaning or really what's coming through.

[00:16:29] I just have to explain.

[00:16:30] So it's also limited by your scope, I guess.

[00:16:35] Yeah.

[00:16:35] In a lot of ways.

[00:16:36] Have you ever gotten something like wrong or off or incorrect and then later figured out

[00:16:41] what the symbol was and go, oh, that's what they were trying to say when you had more

[00:16:44] information?

[00:16:45] Yeah.

[00:16:45] There's things where I've like misinterpreted and I like told someone that and they're like,

[00:16:50] people are very honest with me.

[00:16:51] You know, they're like, that makes literally no sense.

[00:16:54] They won't even smile and be like, okay.

[00:16:56] They're like, nah, like this makes no sense.

[00:16:58] Like, what are you talking about?

[00:16:59] And I'm really hard on myself with that stuff too.

[00:17:02] So then a lot of the times when I'm sleeping and stuff, like messages come in my dreams and

[00:17:06] stuff and then it'll kind of connect and it'll be like weeks later, a month later.

[00:17:10] And then I have my mom who does my appointments, like reach out to them and they're like, oh

[00:17:14] my God.

[00:17:15] They're like, now it makes sense.

[00:17:16] I'm like, thank God.

[00:17:18] I'm like-

[00:17:19] Well, also like with the amount of skepticism I imagine you run into, you want to do well

[00:17:24] by him because you don't want to be considered a hack or, you know what I mean?

[00:17:28] So you want to be, guys, it just, to me, it would be just, I've always said if I ever

[00:17:34] saw a UFO, I'd never tell anyone.

[00:17:37] Do you know what I mean?

[00:17:38] Cause, cause fuck that.

[00:17:39] I don't want to go through that shit of like someone discrediting me and going, you're full

[00:17:42] Oh, instead we'll just be whistleblowers for a call.

[00:17:44] Well, I can actually prove that.

[00:17:46] I can prove that.

[00:17:48] I mean, I can't prove I saw a UFO and then someone's just going to be doubting me and I got

[00:17:51] to deal, I'm the guy who saw a UFO or didn't.

[00:17:53] And I just, I'd just be like, nope, didn't see it.

[00:17:56] Well, you know, I've only recently just told our audience sort of some of my personal beliefs

[00:18:02] around, you know, the other side or spirits and up till recently I've kind of kept that

[00:18:06] private because also, you know, that realm does cross over into a little bit culty stuff,

[00:18:12] you know, where there's people who claim to have a connection, even whether it's God or

[00:18:17] Jesus or deceased people or whatever, but there are so many hacks and con men out there.

[00:18:23] How do you determine somebody who has a skill versus someone who's a snake oil salesman?

[00:18:28] No, that's a good question.

[00:18:29] So I think like with your reading, right?

[00:18:31] Like I gave you more information than you gave me, right?

[00:18:35] It was kind of like, if someone is basically saying to you, I see an older gentleman or

[00:18:41] an older woman, it's like nine times out of 10, we all lost a grandparent.

[00:18:45] You know what I'm saying?

[00:18:45] It's like nine times out of 10 at a certain age, you lost a grandparent.

[00:18:49] And it's kind of like they are asking you questions and you're responding with an answer

[00:18:53] to like give a reading.

[00:18:55] So it's like a woman, that's my grandma.

[00:18:57] They're like, oh, your grandma's here.

[00:18:58] And then they kind of feed off of you.

[00:19:00] So like what I tell people when I do readings is just say yes or no, or don't say anything

[00:19:05] at all.

[00:19:05] And just let me do it.

[00:19:07] And like, give me a fake name.

[00:19:08] I don't care.

[00:19:09] Like, just let me do my thing.

[00:19:10] And that's also kind of why too, I went into the law enforcement realm of this because it's

[00:19:15] like some of the stuff you just can't make up.

[00:19:17] If I'm helping turn a corner in a case that they have not, then it's like, that's proven

[00:19:22] right there.

[00:19:23] But I think a good thing is like, if you go to a reading, just don't give them information.

[00:19:28] Like let them tell you and be specific about it.

[00:19:32] Don't answer a question with a question kind of, you know?

[00:19:36] I remember I was 15 or something like that.

[00:19:38] And we did something like, I can't remember where it was, but the person was like, you

[00:19:44] know, what you said, an old man.

[00:19:45] I was like, yeah, my granddad.

[00:19:46] And he was in the military.

[00:19:47] And I was like, yeah.

[00:19:48] And like, you know, he asked me some questions.

[00:19:50] I told my dad and I was like, he's like, well, you're 15.

[00:19:54] You probably have a granddad that was in World War II, you know?

[00:19:57] And my dad started picking the things that he would have used for me.

[00:20:00] And I was like, oh, it wasn't hard.

[00:20:03] It wasn't hard for my dad to tear it apart.

[00:20:06] It was like, yeah, no, it's true though.

[00:20:08] Because it's like, if you think about like, even my grandfather was in the military, I

[00:20:12] have this like flag, I have his medals and stuff.

[00:20:14] So it's like, if someone came up to me, like, I see your grandfather in the military.

[00:20:18] It's like, yeah, like probably yours is too, you know?

[00:20:20] Like it's just that age group that was in the military.

[00:20:24] So that's why I just tell people, I'm like, just be very cautious with like information

[00:20:28] that you give and only give a first name too.

[00:20:30] Don't give them your last name.

[00:20:32] Just give them your first name and, or give them a fake name.

[00:20:35] I mean, that's what everyone does to me.

[00:20:36] Yeah.

[00:20:38] So I'm like, just do it to them.

[00:20:40] I can't remember if I told you this when I was on your podcast, but I think part of the

[00:20:44] reason why I've always believed is that my mom had an experience in the eighties with

[00:20:47] a medium and it was the same thing.

[00:20:49] She only gave her first name, right?

[00:20:51] And this was before the internet.

[00:20:52] She called, she made an appointment and she had an experience with this British medium and

[00:20:57] had a full connection with my grandmother who you, who met last Friday, Juliet.

[00:21:02] And she said things to the medium, to my mother who told me.

[00:21:06] So there's like, obviously very, you know, I wasn't there, but the way that she described

[00:21:09] it has always just made me believe, well, there's no way this person could know it.

[00:21:13] Therefore she, her spirit or her ghost, whatever you want to call it is there.

[00:21:17] And that just gave me comfort and has been a big belief.

[00:21:21] It's just a part of my belief system.

[00:21:23] I'm always aware, like I could be proven wrong.

[00:21:25] So anyway, I guess a lot of it also must depend on how open people are when they come to you.

[00:21:30] And obviously I was very open.

[00:21:32] I was, we skipped the interview.

[00:21:34] It went right to the reading.

[00:21:36] Yeah.

[00:21:37] I knew when you came on that you wanted a reading.

[00:21:39] So I'm like, let's just do it.

[00:21:41] Like, let's just jump right into it.

[00:21:43] Like, let's not even do the interview part yet.

[00:21:44] Let's just do the reading first.

[00:21:46] Cause it used to be the opposite.

[00:21:47] I would like talk to people and then do the reading.

[00:21:49] And then after that, they're so checked out because they're just thinking about what was

[00:21:54] like said.

[00:21:55] I'm like, I don't think I could do that because people get so checked out when it like, cause

[00:22:00] they're just replaying it.

[00:22:01] Like last night I read a cop, a guy came, his son passed and just walked out.

[00:22:07] After the reading was done, most of the time people will chat with you a little bit,

[00:22:12] you know, just saying goodbye.

[00:22:13] Right.

[00:22:13] It's just like you say goodbye, whatever.

[00:22:15] Got up and left, gone in his car and drove home like three hours home.

[00:22:18] Wow.

[00:22:19] Yeah.

[00:22:19] And I was like, did I say something?

[00:22:21] And then he reached out and was like, I'm so sorry.

[00:22:23] Like it was just overwhelming.

[00:22:24] Yeah.

[00:22:24] Like the things you knew and stuff.

[00:22:26] He's like, I needed to process it alone.

[00:22:27] And he's like, I didn't know what to do.

[00:22:30] Yeah, man.

[00:22:30] Well, it's also like, I can imagine people who are so shut down to it and get the exact

[00:22:35] opposite experience.

[00:22:36] It's gotta be, you might be questioning your world in addition to what you just, just experienced.

[00:22:43] You know, people say that.

[00:22:45] People say that they question like what life is at this point because they're like, how can

[00:22:49] you do that?

[00:22:50] And we're told something different.

[00:22:52] And, you know, this is happening.

[00:22:54] Like, this is bizarre.

[00:22:55] I get that pretty often with like mostly males.

[00:22:59] Cause my, my like reading audience, I think a lot of people think that like when people

[00:23:03] do readings, it's majority females versus males.

[00:23:07] And my audience are, when I do readings, my clients, I should say is 50, 50 now, like

[00:23:12] completely 50, 50.

[00:23:14] And I'm like shocked by it.

[00:23:16] Like, I'm very shocked by it that every week I have two to three males, like military, law

[00:23:22] enforcement.

[00:23:22] We have these thoughts alone.

[00:23:25] Yeah.

[00:23:26] Right?

[00:23:26] Like we suffer alone.

[00:23:27] We don't share.

[00:23:28] We don't do it online or like, they're like, listen, here's the deal.

[00:23:31] I'm paying you this.

[00:23:32] You don't tell anyone.

[00:23:33] Exactly.

[00:23:34] Meanwhile, all the women are like posting about it and blogging and sharing.

[00:23:38] He's like, if I see you in public, you keep walking.

[00:23:41] Exactly.

[00:23:42] Don't, don't even make eye contact.

[00:23:43] Just keep going.

[00:23:45] Well, is there anything else about your life that we need to cover or that it's important

[00:23:48] for our audience to know?

[00:23:49] Or should we get into the unsolved stuff?

[00:23:52] Let's get into the unsolved.

[00:23:53] I love doing this stuff.

[00:23:54] Oh my God.

[00:23:54] I'm so excited.

[00:23:55] It is exciting.

[00:23:58] Hey, Calti listeners.

[00:24:00] As you probably know, Nippy and I are working on a manuscript for our first book together.

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[00:24:28] So if you're like us and you have a story or a message that's burning to be told,

[00:24:32] we highly recommend TSPA as your go-to partner.

[00:24:35] They offer everything you need from expert editing and eye-catching cover design to marketing

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[00:24:51] That's the S-E-L-F publishingagency.com to start your very own publishing journey today.

[00:24:59] Enjoy.

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[00:27:53] Now let's get back to a little bit culty, shall we?

[00:27:56] All right.

[00:27:57] So how do we do this?

[00:27:58] Is there like many cases?

[00:28:00] Like, so is this particular just to where within NXIVM or is this like a broader, like

[00:28:05] unsolved?

[00:28:06] There's a few people who have passed in NXIVM.

[00:28:09] One is unsolved.

[00:28:10] Two people.

[00:28:11] I just feel like there's things around their death that are suspect and I never got to

[00:28:15] talk to them, you know?

[00:28:17] And I, yes.

[00:28:17] We did get to talk to them.

[00:28:19] Well, I mean, talk to them.

[00:28:20] They died before NXIVM ended.

[00:28:22] So I feel like there's just things that they know that I'd love to know.

[00:28:26] That they kept from us.

[00:28:27] They kept from us.

[00:28:28] So are these people, I'm assuming they're not family, correct?

[00:28:31] Correct.

[00:28:31] Like, so like, I don't want to go towards your family then.

[00:28:34] And if these people are not.

[00:28:35] No.

[00:28:36] So I'm just going to look off and I'll tell you who comes through.

[00:28:38] Sure.

[00:28:39] Yeah.

[00:28:46] I mean, there's like a few people that are friends that are not family.

[00:28:51] So there's a couple I want to talk about.

[00:28:53] There's one, two people seem to have passed similarly, it looks like.

[00:29:01] They're putting ribbons in front of me and that's typically an indication of cancer-like.

[00:29:05] But I don't know if it's, it's a bee name.

[00:29:10] So I, a female's bee name, like Barbara.

[00:29:17] And then there's, she's standing next to someone who has a similar passing with.

[00:29:24] So when they put a bee name, I don't know, like, cause there's a lot of female bee names.

[00:29:28] So it could be like Paula, Paulette, Pam.

[00:29:32] I don't really know.

[00:29:34] Got them both.

[00:29:35] That's, there they are.

[00:29:37] But you also have someone else that I want to bring in too.

[00:29:40] You have a couple people.

[00:29:42] They're all, so, which is weird.

[00:29:44] Well, not weird, I guess, but you have people like those two have a similar passing, which

[00:29:50] I want to talk to you a lot about because they seem like they have a lot of information pertaining

[00:29:54] what your, the cult was, is what they're saying.

[00:29:58] And how they're, I'll get into them, but there's someone else, there's a woman with a G name

[00:30:05] with a gun to her head and saying like, she needs to explain her passing into detail.

[00:30:11] Please.

[00:30:11] Oh my God.

[00:30:12] I've got goosebumps.

[00:30:13] She's saying to me, and again, like, this is going to sound weird.

[00:30:16] Like one plus one should equal two, but one plus one equals seven with her passing.

[00:30:20] Like things don't really add up is what she's showing to me.

[00:30:23] So I want to go to the two women that are coming in because, um, there's a, oh, you have

[00:30:30] another one.

[00:30:31] Oh my goodness.

[00:30:32] What the hell?

[00:30:33] How many people, how many unsolves do you guys have?

[00:30:35] And they're all very loud because they all want their story out.

[00:30:38] Cause it seems like it's been, um, it's been like a little, I'm using the term like social

[00:30:44] media, but like when I say shadow band and stuff, it just, it seems like it got to a certain

[00:30:49] point and then it, it kind of fell off.

[00:30:51] It's a C or K name, like a kuh, kuh, kuh sound, like Kirsten, Kristen, Christina.

[00:30:57] And she's saying that she, there's, there's actually, yeah, there's a lot.

[00:31:06] Who do you want to go?

[00:31:07] There's a lot to uncover.

[00:31:09] We have so much.

[00:31:09] Can we just start first with Kristen?

[00:31:11] What happened to her?

[00:31:13] Yeah.

[00:31:14] Hers is a very interesting one because what she's saying is the person who did it is in

[00:31:18] jail.

[00:31:19] However, the lead up to it is what she wants to talk about because what she's saying to

[00:31:23] me is, or the person who orchestrated it is in jail.

[00:31:26] Because what she's saying to me is, and I'm not, you know, you could be LGBTQ.

[00:31:34] I don't know if I'm saying those acronyms, right?

[00:31:36] Whether, but she's saying like, if, I don't know if she was, um, into other women.

[00:31:43] I don't, I don't know.

[00:31:45] Um, cause she's saying that was a huge cause of what had happened and kind of looks like

[00:31:51] she was forced upon by someone and was pregnant and didn't want it.

[00:31:56] Cause what she's keeps rubbing her stomach and saying that someone forced themselves on

[00:32:01] her and she became neurotic.

[00:32:05] She's saying her head became, um, I don't want to be mean.

[00:32:11] Let's not mean.

[00:32:12] Um, she's like something like kind of made her snap a little bit, but she was also saying

[00:32:18] that like where she lives was a far remote place.

[00:32:22] So I don't know where she lived, but it seemed to be like a remote type of location, but she

[00:32:28] keeps saying someone with a K name who's living orchestrated a lot of this, like, and

[00:32:34] had people, she keeps basically saying, I don't, there's someone with an S name connected

[00:32:40] to her with a strong S name.

[00:32:42] Um, I don't know, but, but anyway, I don't know if she's, is she a lesbian?

[00:32:49] Yes.

[00:32:50] Yeah.

[00:32:50] Okay.

[00:32:51] I don't want to, I don't want to out her if she's not.

[00:32:53] No, she is.

[00:32:53] No, she is.

[00:32:54] I didn't actually know her, but we knew of her.

[00:32:58] Yeah.

[00:32:59] Hers is a very sketchy passing.

[00:33:00] Yeah.

[00:33:01] Really, really sketchy.

[00:33:02] But the person who orchestrated, she keeps putting bars in front of me and like literally

[00:33:06] she's tapping the bed in front of me saying this person's behind bars.

[00:33:10] And also there's a woman who also was orchestrating this, who's also behind bars too.

[00:33:15] It seems like it's like a duo of people.

[00:33:17] Cause she's saying it's, um, an A name?

[00:33:19] Who has an A name?

[00:33:21] A name?

[00:33:22] Like Allison, Allie, Alexandra.

[00:33:26] Oh, Allison Mack.

[00:33:27] But she's out of jail.

[00:33:28] Yeah.

[00:33:28] She was in jail, but she's not a lover.

[00:33:30] She didn't have anything to do with that.

[00:33:31] She was, she came around before Kristen was.

[00:33:34] There's something where there's a group of people that know a lot of things that are just not

[00:33:38] speaking.

[00:33:39] Yeah.

[00:33:39] And it seems like, um, she could be a huge help if she, I guess, wanted to be a help.

[00:33:46] Oh, there's another Allison.

[00:33:48] Anything can you.

[00:33:49] I don't know.

[00:33:49] She just keeps underlining an A name saying that that help could be a, like that person

[00:33:54] could be a huge help is what she keeps saying.

[00:33:56] But what she's also showing to me too, it's not, I don't know if they claim this as a suicide.

[00:34:03] Like, I don't know if that's what they claimed it as.

[00:34:06] Doesn't really look like that to me.

[00:34:08] Like the way that she's coming through at all.

[00:34:11] Can she say how she died?

[00:34:15] It looks like she was like strangled, drowned.

[00:34:19] It kind of looks like.

[00:34:20] She's putting water in front of me.

[00:34:22] So it has to, someone either strangled her, drowned her, did something in the water.

[00:34:26] I don't know what you could do in the water other than those two things really.

[00:34:29] Um, but she's saying that again, it's things leading up to this didn't make sense too.

[00:34:35] It's kind of like, I don't know how to explain it because I don't.

[00:34:40] Who strangled her?

[00:34:41] Like, I know that Keith orchestrated it.

[00:34:44] The one who's in jail for sure.

[00:34:45] That was his doing, but who did it to her?

[00:34:51] I'm just going to use an initials because I don't want people to come after me and stuff.

[00:34:56] They keep pointing at me.

[00:34:58] So it's like something, someone that's connected to a J name.

[00:35:04] Maybe Jim?

[00:35:06] Yeah.

[00:35:07] I don't want to say any, I just don't want people to come.

[00:35:08] Yeah, you don't want to say.

[00:35:08] Yeah.

[00:35:09] I just don't want to have people like, I've learned when I do this stuff, not to like

[00:35:12] when even on my show, I don't say names.

[00:35:15] I have them bleep it out, but it just looks like there's a bigger group that like, she's

[00:35:21] not particularly like showing me who specifically did it.

[00:35:23] It's just a group that orchestrated things who did it and had it look like she took her

[00:35:29] own life, but it doesn't look like that at all to me.

[00:35:31] And if I was to read like someone in her life, like family and stuff, it would be a lot easier

[00:35:35] for me because then they could put pieces together that are, I think more intimate.

[00:35:41] You have two women that are just like seem to be pretty involved in the cult at one point,

[00:35:47] maybe.

[00:35:47] Mm-hmm.

[00:35:49] Hi, Pam and Barb.

[00:35:52] So this is weird because they're saying that, and you can correct me if I could be misinterpreting

[00:35:58] this like, you know, like we spoke about kind of before, but they keep showing to me

[00:36:03] about, they're putting ribbons in front of me.

[00:36:05] And again, they keep doing one plus one equals seven.

[00:36:07] And they keep saying that it's like if someone was poisoned, right?

[00:36:12] It's kind of like if someone was poisoned, it's like, it's hard to prove that someone was

[00:36:17] poisoned if they have cancer.

[00:36:19] It's just like kind of like, it makes a little bit like it adds an additional layer, it

[00:36:23] seems.

[00:36:24] And it seems that like, that's kind of what they're showing me that they were poisoned.

[00:36:29] I'm feeling sick.

[00:36:30] A little bit.

[00:36:32] This is what we thought.

[00:36:33] But they're showing to me, which I don't know if this will resonate a little bit.

[00:36:38] They keep pulling strands of hair out of their head.

[00:36:40] And they keep saying that there's like DNA and evidence, right?

[00:36:45] Like it's pretty easy to tell that there was outside substances is what they're saying,

[00:36:49] which could lead to a poison, I guess, or being poisoned.

[00:36:52] But what they're also saying to me and showing to me too, it's like their passings are pretty

[00:36:57] parallel to each other in a sense like they seem very similar to me.

[00:37:00] Like they seem like everything kind of, it looks like lined up to me as far as it being

[00:37:07] like a little too similar of a passing because you have, you have one, two, you have four

[00:37:13] people in total, but then like out of the four, they're like, the two are the same and the

[00:37:18] other two are so different.

[00:37:20] Like, so it's like, it's, it's a little interesting, but weird to me that theirs are so similar.

[00:37:29] So this is what they're showing to me.

[00:37:30] It seems like they have a lot of information to put, it's like essentially to like what

[00:37:35] you guys were saying, like whistleblower type of stuff.

[00:37:38] However, they had a lot of it.

[00:37:40] Yeah.

[00:37:40] Like a lot of stuff.

[00:37:41] They know way more than we do.

[00:37:43] Like a lot.

[00:37:43] Yeah.

[00:37:44] It seems like a lot of like the orchestrating, recruiting, like there's a whole system that

[00:37:49] they're saying that they were, that's in place for it.

[00:37:52] But also what they're showing to me too is who's the K name that's behind bars?

[00:37:58] Keith.

[00:37:58] It's Keith.

[00:37:59] They're saying that this person with the K name, it's very weird.

[00:38:07] And like, I don't want to point fingers at him in any way.

[00:38:09] No, but.

[00:38:10] It's okay.

[00:38:12] Okay.

[00:38:13] Okay.

[00:38:13] Yeah.

[00:38:15] This dude is a monster.

[00:38:16] Yes.

[00:38:16] Like this dude's a monster.

[00:38:18] He has his finger pretty much in every single person here.

[00:38:21] Like as far as their suspicious passing goes.

[00:38:25] And the only reason why I'm saying that is they're all lined up parallel and the K name

[00:38:28] is above and they're all pointing arrows to this person, which means that whether I'm

[00:38:33] not saying he did every single one, but his finger was involved pretty much in almost

[00:38:37] all of them.

[00:38:38] And, and it's kind of like when someone starts getting their own voice or tries to be like

[00:38:42] a little bit more of an independent and someone doesn't like that because the G name

[00:38:46] is saying that too.

[00:38:47] Like the independence factor of, I don't know if this G name person was trying to leave,

[00:38:53] but they all have a similarity of, it's kind of like light bulbs going off being like,

[00:38:58] this doesn't add up.

[00:38:59] Like this isn't right.

[00:39:00] And then this K name guy coming in and being a monster.

[00:39:05] I mean, like off camera, I'll tell you guys a lot of this stuff.

[00:39:09] I just don't want people, you know, like I try to be careful with this, but they're

[00:39:14] just showing to me about, I think there's more murders than just the four.

[00:39:21] Yeah.

[00:39:21] If I'm being honest.

[00:39:22] We think so too.

[00:39:23] We think so too.

[00:39:23] No.

[00:39:23] Cause they're all, I mean, Pam and Barbara, is that their name?

[00:39:26] The P and the B name?

[00:39:28] Sorry for referring to them like that, but.

[00:39:30] That's okay.

[00:39:30] That's okay.

[00:39:32] They keep putting additional signs next to them, which means there's more than just

[00:39:35] the four that are here.

[00:39:36] Yeah.

[00:39:37] Like a lot.

[00:39:38] Well, I won't say a lot more, but a decent amount more.

[00:39:41] Yeah.

[00:39:41] Yeah.

[00:39:41] Like, like he could be considered a serial killer at this point because the amount of

[00:39:45] passings that have happened, just you, you become a serial killer.

[00:39:49] Um, but yeah, there's like a lot of things that pertaining to the cult that, that they're

[00:39:54] showing to me about babies.

[00:39:56] They're showing to me stuff about that, how, um, it's like, you shouldn't have sex, but then

[00:40:04] you do have sex and someone's pregnant and then the baby's gone and bought and people are

[00:40:08] missing.

[00:40:08] Cause what they're showing to me, it's like, if there's a group of five one day, then the

[00:40:13] next day there's a group of four, but no one speaks about the fifth person that went missing.

[00:40:17] It's just kind of like, that's what happened.

[00:40:20] And they're saying that things are gonna, are going to start to uncover, like by uncovering,

[00:40:26] it seems like people, and I'm assuming because of your show and you guys doing this, people

[00:40:31] are going to start putting pieces together to, you know, uncover not just these four women

[00:40:36] that are here.

[00:40:38] Um, because the cane, the, the woman with the, is her name Kristen or Christina?

[00:40:44] Yeah.

[00:40:45] Kristen.

[00:40:45] Yeah.

[00:40:47] Her wife or a partner, she's proud of her for speaking up.

[00:40:52] Cause it seems like she was very quiet for a long time.

[00:40:54] And it seems like, I don't know if it's very recent or just in the last like 10 years or

[00:41:00] so or less than that.

[00:41:02] It's like speaking up kind of, or just saying like her side of like a piece or something.

[00:41:07] Rather than being quiet.

[00:41:08] But there is a sense of fear that I can see with each and every one of them, which means

[00:41:13] if someone is fearful for their death and not fearful for their death in the sense of like,

[00:41:18] if you're sick and you're scared and you're fearful like that, this is like fear of your

[00:41:21] life of like someone else point.

[00:41:24] Like if they're pointing their fingers at someone else, when I do these cases, that means someone

[00:41:27] else had to do with their death.

[00:41:29] Like, and if they pointed themselves, that means they took their own lives.

[00:41:32] That means they're taking acknowledgement.

[00:41:34] The two women are putting ribbons, but then pointing at someone else and saying that they

[00:41:38] were poisoned.

[00:41:39] So that means that someone did something to them.

[00:41:42] Like they poisoned them and expedited a passing or did something.

[00:41:46] There's a lot.

[00:41:47] Do they know how they were poisoned?

[00:41:51] So this is interesting.

[00:41:52] They're pouring pills in front of me.

[00:41:54] I'm not saying that they were like snoring pills.

[00:41:56] That has nothing to do with it.

[00:41:57] But if you're like trying to take medicine or herbal stuff or whatever to try and help you

[00:42:01] and someone is tampering with things, like that's poisoning someone.

[00:42:07] Like they're just tampering because they keep saying to me they had all this trust in people,

[00:42:12] like certain people.

[00:42:13] They had like undyingly like loyalty to people, but now they don't have that.

[00:42:19] Like I always say this when I read people like hindsight to 20-20.

[00:42:22] And they can now see that they can see the full picture.

[00:42:26] Like they seem like someone was tampering with whether it was like herbal or pills or

[00:42:30] something or medicine just in general or food.

[00:42:32] I don't know.

[00:42:33] But it's just someone was tampering with their stuff who they thought was actually helping

[00:42:37] them.

[00:42:39] This has been our suspicion all along.

[00:42:42] Oh, really?

[00:42:43] Yes.

[00:42:44] Yeah.

[00:42:44] But there's no way to prove it.

[00:42:45] And then they died.

[00:42:46] Yeah.

[00:42:46] And even me who's like I guess like a medium, like it's even harder to prove because the

[00:42:53] person who's alive behind bars doesn't look like he's saying anything at all.

[00:42:57] Like he's just there it kind of seems.

[00:43:01] And that's why they're all thanking you guys.

[00:43:03] Like collectively they're all thanking you in different ways.

[00:43:06] It's just really shining light on obviously them and like what's going on.

[00:43:12] But it's really helping other people in difference like when I say cults like it's like different

[00:43:16] situations that are maybe like a cult potentially that like people are recruiting and you have

[00:43:22] to do this and that whatever because they're saying that this happens a lot more than people

[00:43:27] think that like and what they're saying too is and I don't know if you guys ran into this

[00:43:32] because this is what the two women are sharing with me.

[00:43:36] It's like please go only so far with this unless you push and push and push in these situations.

[00:43:41] So it's kind of like and I think police are amazing.

[00:43:45] So I want to start by saying and I know there's good cops, bad cops, good lawyers, bad lawyers

[00:43:49] and things like that.

[00:43:51] But they're just saying to me like there becomes like a certain and I'm sure you guys know like

[00:43:55] when it comes to reservations like police don't go there like they kind of let the whatever.

[00:44:00] That's kind of what they're showing to me like like they went to a point where they let it

[00:44:04] being like self-governed a little bit and then they tried to intervene and they only got so far

[00:44:09] because no one is speaking. It's kind of like you're going up against people that are protecting

[00:44:14] this guy still. Like it's really weird because they're all saying to me it's like why are they

[00:44:19] still protecting a monster is what they keep showing to me. They keep putting um this is

[00:44:23] going to sound weird but it's just they're putting the K name with like devil horns on it

[00:44:29] for me. It doesn't mean he's like you know literally a devil but they're showing me he's

[00:44:33] like an evil person. Yeah for sure.

[00:44:35] Like a very evil person but they're saying that people are still protecting this evil person and

[00:44:40] that's why they're so thankful for you guys for trying to I guess essentially like expose what is

[00:44:46] going on in a more heartfelt type of way it seems because they're saying you do a lot with compassion

[00:44:54] and that's what the two women are saying and they're and they wish because it's what they're

[00:45:00] also showing to me too that they had the courage and the voice that you two have to do this

[00:45:04] because it seems like they I'm going to be honest it seems like those two women were pretty brainwashed

[00:45:08] yeah honestly and they're saying that to me they're like showing to me like hindsight's 2020

[00:45:13] they were like a little brainwashed so but those are the four that are really coming through strong

[00:45:18] and yeah.

[00:45:22] For more background on what brought us here check out Sarah's page-turning memoir

[00:45:26] it's called Scarred the true story of how I escaped NXIVM the cult that bound my life

[00:45:30] it's available on Amazon Audible and at most bookstores highly recommend of course because she's my wife

[00:45:36] and now a brief message from our little bit culty sponsors remember when you support our sponsors

[00:45:41] you support our podcast ready to launch your business get started with the commerce platform

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[00:46:10] your one dollar a month trial at shopify.com.au slash listen break time's over people let's get

[00:46:20] back to this episode of a little bit culty it's a good one can I ask Barbara question yeah did she

[00:46:27] wake up did she have the light bulb moment too and try to leave was she trying to leave one of the two

[00:46:33] did yeah like that's why I'm saying and I have to be honest I think they both were kind of like that

[00:46:41] one was more so than the other they both were kind of at that point where it was like a eureka

[00:46:46] type of moment or like a you know light bulb boom it just goes off one was way more than the other but

[00:46:53] they both were kind of at that point of like getting there the other two women had that eureka moment

[00:47:00] like in a huge in a huge way and they made it public too they didn't like yeah like public meaning

[00:47:06] like they I don't know if there were social media back then and stuff but they definitely weren't quiet

[00:47:10] about it though the woman with the g name she keeps saying to me and again I don't want to be graphic

[00:47:20] or anything but she's putting a gun and tapping her body in her head with it or so I don't know if it

[00:47:26] had something to do with it like like that but what she's saying is is that the way that the

[00:47:31] and I only know this because I work on cases that are similar to this the way that the gun was or the

[00:47:36] type of caliber or something doesn't add up for a woman or even a man to place it hold it and shoot it

[00:47:42] like it just things don't add up like that is what they're saying so it's that's what she's just

[00:47:48] showing to me about that that like her passing doesn't add up like that can you ask her who did pull

[00:47:54] it the trigger they all keep going back to the same thing that there's they're all just basically

[00:48:04] going to me that he had his finger in it I don't know if he actually pulled the trigger pulled the

[00:48:09] trigger but but what she's saying to me there was a group I'm just going to tell you what they're

[00:48:13] there's a group of three that seems to be like that and I'm using this as like I'm not trying to

[00:48:21] use this as like a Hollywood term but it's like a hit man or like a hit person that their sole job is

[00:48:27] yes they are in this in this cult but they're like the go-to person to do horrible things for people

[00:48:34] they're like go-to people and that's what it seems because it also seems like it was a male that did it

[00:48:40] like all this seems like male driven to some extent and the Barbara and the Pam keep saying to me

[00:48:49] when they're clapping their hands they're saying it's like things are getting exposed and they're happy

[00:48:53] for it so there's people that are still living that seem to know if I'm being honest with you a lot of them

[00:49:00] can you ask them who's still alive that knows the most or that we should not that they'll necessarily

[00:49:06] talk to us but is there who knows who's alive and knows who's got the information it's hard to tell

[00:49:14] but like they ain't like I don't know about the a name or something because they like it keeps going back

[00:49:18] to that or it's like Alex or Alexa or something I it's hard to tell just because they're talking about

[00:49:28] themselves more than anything and about their situation but who's who's another k name like another

[00:49:38] kristin yeah there's another person has a shit ton of shit ton of information yeah um Barbara just said

[00:49:47] it yeah she said kristin or Kathy or whoever actually kristin and Kathy yeah yeah like they said if you get

[00:49:55] to them you can peel onion layers back with things but like someone's in hiding like someone's in like

[00:50:01] hiding and someone also has a kid from someone too it's like a really weird I mean they're they're all

[00:50:07] laughing it's like all incest is what they're saying like kind of like not literally yeah I don't know but

[00:50:12] it seems like it's all like incest type of behavior but it's like a k name it's another kristin kristin

[00:50:19] Kathy yeah yeah they're saying if you can find and get to this person I mean fucking sorry for

[00:50:26] cursing but they're saying that like she knows sky's the limit honestly like this kristin person has so much

[00:50:33] and it's Kathy I guess but kristin has a lot and she's someone's in hiding whether she's in hiding and

[00:50:39] they're holding information back like they're not speaking at all it's it's not that they're scared

[00:50:45] they're just not speaking and they and they're still protecting that's what I kind of see with it

[00:50:51] she's protecting Keith or protecting her son yeah it's like a son and like everyone that's

[00:50:59] because I think if she says something that she's going to get probably you know it just opens up

[00:51:04] doors and and stuff so yeah that's kind of what I'm seeing she may even be accused of being accomplice to

[00:51:12] some of these things oh yeah for sure either accomplice or she was like it's kind of like in the room when

[00:51:20] things were discussed right and that means you're an accomplice still whether you drew something out

[00:51:24] or you didn't report anything that means you're an accomplice and she definitely knew she knows a lot

[00:51:32] she knows a lot or a majority it seems but oh my god I am like drenched from this stuff

[00:51:40] holy crap can I can I ask you know about Jim can we ask you about one more person

[00:51:44] that's sure should be there he might not want to talk to us but his gym was he also involved in

[00:51:51] this mm-hmm but is there another James though too that has nothing to do with this I mean his real

[00:52:03] name's James no but like another person like a family member one of you guys um do you have a

[00:52:11] James it doesn't matter but there's I mean my deep oh no there's a J.A. name in your in someone's

[00:52:17] family similar to like a James not Jack who was here last week different person that's who it is

[00:52:23] it's Jack yeah yeah he that's why I was like wait a minute this person seems so familiar that

[00:52:28] this person cannot be in in involved in this that's why I was like he's too nice of a person

[00:52:34] and not that people aren't nice and dear he's just so separate okay that makes more sense Jack's back

[00:52:39] hi Papa were you guys friends with this guy Jim mm-hmm because he's apologizing to you guys

[00:52:49] about um he's apologizing for what it and I'm I'm not saying this is literally what he did it's just

[00:52:56] what he's showing to me in my head it's not turning his back on you but it appears like that right it's

[00:53:01] kind of like if you needed an extra person it's like he turned his back on you and he's very sorry

[00:53:06] for that and he's saying again I use this term but hindsight's 20 20 and he's saying he hopes you

[00:53:11] guys can forgive him because he's saying that he should have he shouldn't have turned his back

[00:53:16] or what it appeared like he turned his back but that's essentially what he he's like coming through

[00:53:25] like that's pretty much like the gist of it with him because he's saying he needs to apologize like

[00:53:29] that's his main message it's just an apology like and he's he's laughing with a very um loud laugh

[00:53:36] I will tell you I'm so happy to hear that and please Jim we absolutely forgive you we always

[00:53:42] knew you were a good guy you were a good soldier yeah he's he is a good person he's just showing to

[00:53:48] me and again he's pointing at them it's like brainwashed yeah like you know like yeah and he's

[00:53:56] saying that it just he's it it hurts him that he feels like he turned his back on you like it hurts

[00:54:02] him because he knows how much it disappointed you guys and so I just wanted to let you guys know he's

[00:54:09] a good dude yeah really good dude yeah he is just brainwashed unfortunately a little bit I mean he's

[00:54:15] laughing about it so it's like if like he's saying you know like what I always say hindsight's 20 20

[00:54:20] so like you know that's my gosh that's a closure that we I think we both needed

[00:54:27] it's fucking crazy you know and in Barb and Pam too if they're still there I mean especially Barb I

[00:54:34] feel it's easier for me to forgive because I understand the brainwashing and how how it works

[00:54:41] now it was hard to watch both of them die it just seems like they were poisoned yeah

[00:54:48] were they this is just what they're showing me because they're putting rats in front of me

[00:54:53] what's it a rat poisoning do you guys think or something they're putting rats in front of my

[00:54:57] feet like in Manhattan and stuff it seems like it was like something similar to a if if it was that

[00:55:02] are similar to a rat poisoning it was it just shuts down the human body yeah there was an investigation

[00:55:08] done um because he tried to kill someone else that was still alive today and she had a hair sample

[00:55:15] from the time where they all lived together and they tested the hair sample and it had boron and

[00:55:20] bismuth in it which is too is that rat poisoning rat poisoning oh my god and this person had cancer

[00:55:27] but it didn't kill her because I don't think she had enough and both Pam and Barb died of very

[00:55:32] aggressive cancers and they were rare cancers like renal cancer and like brain cancer and they were

[00:55:38] otherwise completely healthy up until then my god see like this is why I want to like I I always

[00:55:46] and trying to tell people like with these unsolved cases send them to me and I will try my best to

[00:55:51] help you I want to try and help people like with this stuff and yes I I want to help people with like

[00:55:57] the normal readings too but of course I do but like this is what I want like this is how do we prove it

[00:56:04] now that he's in jail and they're dead like how do you go back and prove that like where's the proof

[00:56:09] the woman who's Kristen Kathy Kristen Keefe she knows oh she's like the golden ticket for whatever

[00:56:18] you guys need yeah I mean they're they're they're all showing me I know it's again really stupid so

[00:56:23] people that are listening don't judge me but Willy Wonka the golden ticket whatever that's what they're

[00:56:29] showing to me in my head it's like the golden ticket like she's got that's the golden ticket she's

[00:56:34] she's in hiding but it's the golden ticket is what they're showing to me do they know how Keith is

[00:56:40] doing in jail and is Keith still trying to harm people from jail so that's an interesting question

[00:56:47] he's I guess doing as well as you can do in jail I guess but he definitely is trying to orchestrate

[00:56:53] I don't know if he's trying to hurt people or silence people it's like one of the two right like

[00:56:57] but he's definitely trying to do something like because it seems like he's from what they're

[00:57:01] showing to me he's like a he still feels very full of himself is what I will say and still feels like

[00:57:08] he has power and that's the problem that I see so I'm going to assume that he is still trying to do

[00:57:13] things to people if they're all showing to me like his chest is still out and he still feels like he's a

[00:57:19] big chest which means he still feels like he has power to do something so yeah well he was supposed to

[00:57:24] be the most ethical noble man in the world and did horrible things horrible things he definitely was a

[00:57:31] monster yeah oh I wonder if he poisoned other people too sure he did yeah he probably I mean just

[00:57:41] assuming from what they're showing to me he definitely did a lot of different things for sure

[00:57:46] and it's just unfortunate that this woman is not speaking up was it really is unfortunate yeah

[00:57:53] I don't think she likes us very much um but do they know if he there was other women who died of cancer

[00:58:01] around him I always thought it was something in the water until the poisoning theory came around but

[00:58:07] there were other women who did get cancer and survived did he poison them too yeah everything was

[00:58:13] controlled by yeah everything was like controlled by him from what they're showing to me so like the

[00:58:18] water the food that everything seems to have been through him or through people that were working

[00:58:24] for him so it doesn't look like and I'm not saying people couldn't go out to like a supermarket and get

[00:58:28] a pole in spring water or like whatever but it seems like things were very heavily controlled and processed

[00:58:34] through them if something was to happen Suzanne Kemp yeah yeah that's the only reason why I'm I'm assuming

[00:58:41] that he poisoned more than one person if they're showing to me like everything everything was passed

[00:58:47] through him and people is can you ask if Suzanne was one of those victims I mean I yeah I think that

[00:58:56] was the s name that was coming through before oh um looks like a little yeah it kind of looks like it

[00:59:06] I don't know like it's it's like again I don't want to like lie and no I see this like for sure

[00:59:12] earlier too and I don't know that we could have just been actual cancer you know we don't

[00:59:17] yeah like I don't want to lie and be like that's it but it looks it's not as like concrete as the

[00:59:24] other ones for sure I can definitely tell you that that's why I'm like I don't want to sit here and

[00:59:28] lie to you and be like yep I see it it's it's kind of like it's not as concrete as like Barbara and

[00:59:34] no that's what that's how that one felt too do they have any information on Sally like as far as like a

[00:59:45] passing goes or something yeah was she also poisoned do you think possibly we don't know because I mean

[00:59:54] she's she's putting ribbon like this similarity to the Barbara and uh Paula which that's why I'm

[01:00:00] assuming she was somewhat like things were altered she had cancer but we just don't know if it was

[01:00:07] cancer or poisoned no it looks like things were altered with she's pointing like I said to

[01:00:13] to Barbara and uh the P name and she's saying it's like there's similarities is what she's shown to me

[01:00:20] which I'm going to take that as yeah she was probably things were altered with for her for

[01:00:26] sure I think she was sick and I think they altered things on top of it yeah they did do that

[01:00:32] oh my goodness well yeah it's crazy that's like I'm I'm a little like holy shit I'm not gonna lie

[01:00:40] some heavy stuff I'm sorry that to bring that into your world and no it's all good it's all good it

[01:00:46] does feel good to have how do you regulate when it can't be I'm gonna go for a run after this

[01:00:53] I'm gonna I'm gonna go clear my head or probably go surfing or something just to get out there and

[01:00:59] because what every time I do this stuff like I don't want to lift my arms up but I'm one I'm

[01:01:03] drenched in sweat but two it's just a lot so I need to like feel the sun or the waters like not in a

[01:01:11] spiritual way just like just to get outside really just to clear my head and just then I'm back to it

[01:01:17] with another case after so it's like yeah it's a lot it's definitely a lot that was amazing you have

[01:01:23] such a gift and um it feels really good to have closure with Jim and just so you know so just to

[01:01:29] yeah Kristen Snyder as far as we know was um committed suicide she apparently had had a she was gay but had

[01:01:38] was pregnant and had a mental break and there was a suicide note but people who knew her said that

[01:01:44] wasn't her writing and it's an unsolved case and that was in Anchorage Alaska oh so it is in remote

[01:01:49] holy crap yeah yeah I mean not that Alaska is remote but it kind of is it is and she went on a kayak

[01:01:55] she went on a kayak trip and her body and I believe her kayak were never found either like neither the

[01:02:00] kayak or the body were found but the note she left a suicide note oh wow yeah so yeah drowning

[01:02:07] is what yeah that's bizarre yeah that case has never been solved is it because that they feel

[01:02:13] like it's a suicide so they just ruled that as a suicide so they're not like investigating it

[01:02:18] a little bit of both as I understand I don't really know it was a long time ago like we had heard

[01:02:22] about it when we joined and we were told that that was a hoax and that she was actually alive and well

[01:02:28] and then holy shit yeah yeah and that she was just another woman scorned any controversy was just

[01:02:33] like oh it's a woman scorned you know they loved Keith and you know that's crazy yeah so that's her

[01:02:41] and Gina I actually completely forgot about Gina because that was also before we were involved

[01:02:45] now I have to go back and look it's been a long time but also apparently died by suicide with a gun

[01:02:50] a shotgun a shotgun that's Gina oh I guess that's why she was saying I mean I don't know how big she

[01:02:58] was but I feel like even for a guy to shoot a shotgun there's that'd be very difficult to

[01:03:05] like without the recoil like shooting up or something yeah like just physically it would

[01:03:10] have been hard to you wouldn't be able to hold it the way that yeah even me too I wouldn't be able

[01:03:14] to do it like to put like the arm out and yeah that would be really yeah that's bizarre wow

[01:03:20] so that was Gina and then yeah Barb and Pam both died of very aggressive cancers and very close to

[01:03:27] each other and just before we left just before things fell apart and they were very fucking Keith

[01:03:33] man Jesus yeah thank you so much I'm really appreciative of your gifts and I hope that it's

[01:03:40] okay for you that you're the rest of your day can be lighter and uh yeah thank you Keith is a pretty

[01:03:46] well he's where he's where he belongs he's where he belongs and I guess Nippy and I have to decide

[01:03:50] whether or not we're going to try to contact Kristen and solve this together do you like what you hear

[01:04:00] on a little bit culty then please do give us a rating a review and subscribe on iTunes Spotify or

[01:04:05] wherever you listen or even better share this episode with someone who you think needs to hear it

[01:04:10] maybe they're in a cult maybe they're a little bit susceptible just share the love thanks

[01:04:20] holy shit I still have goosebumps from that conversation yeah I don't really have a whole

[01:04:24] lot to say after that that was pretty crazy what was the thing that stuck out to you the most

[01:04:31] Jim right yeah I mean the stomach stuff he said after that we can't share but that was pretty much

[01:04:38] the one that was like yeah we did talk to Jonathan for about 30 minutes afterwards he did say something

[01:04:44] that I think we can share which is that he said that Keith was really mad when we left yeah and

[01:04:48] he basically got pretty quickly that he's a dangerous person I'm all pissed off about it again

[01:04:53] I kind of want to go find Keith in jail maybe we should no I'm staying out of that well clearly there's a

[01:05:02] lot more to solve here and if you want to hear more about Jonathan's work check out his podcast

[01:05:07] connect with Jonathan Mark on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts thanks for listening everyone

[01:05:16] a little bit culty is a trace 120 production executive produced by Sarah Edmondson and Anthony

[01:05:36] Nippy Ames in collaboration with Amphibian Media our co-creator is Jess Temple Tardy audio

[01:05:41] engineering by Red Cayman Studios and our writing and research is done by Emma Diehl and Kristen Reeder

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