Voicing Doubt: Ian James Corlett on Leaving the Jehovah’s Witness Faith

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: This winter, take your icon pass north. North to abundant access, to powder-skiing legacy, to independent spirit.

[00:00:13] [SPEAKER_00]: North where easy to get to, meets worlds away. Go north to Snow Basin. Now on The Icon Pass.

[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_06]: The views and opinions expressed by A Little Bit Culty are those of the hosts and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast.

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors, or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything.

[00:00:54] ______________________________

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Welcome to A Little Bit Culty, a podcast about what happens when something that seems like a great thing at first goes to the dark

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Out of there, together, and on our way out, we helped shut it down.

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Our journey as Nexian whistleblowers was captured in detail on a docu-series called

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_02]: The Vow on HBO, and also on the front page of a newspaper.

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_06]: New York Times, babe.

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_06]: Have you heard of it?

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_06]: Each week on A Little Bit Culty, we talk with other former cult members and whistleblowers,

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_06]: plus experts in things like cultic abuse and coercive control.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_02]: We also turn the mic over to advocates and clinicians with wisdom to share on recovering

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_02]: from everything from MLMs and toxic religion to bad romances with raging narcissists.

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_06]: There's always something to learn about the cultiverse.

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_06]: Be sure to subscribe to A Little Bit Culty so you don't miss an episode.

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_06]: Find us on Instagram and at ALittleBitCulty.com.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Hello-ha.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Aloha means goodbye.

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_06]: I thought it meant hello too.

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_02]: It does mean goodbye too, doesn't it?

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_06]: We were in Hawaii for 10 days, and this is the knowledge that Nipi and I acquired.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, first of all, it's great to be back, but it was so good to take a proper vacation,

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_06]: right?

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah, I found the Civic Center with the basketball court.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_02]: One of the nicest basketball courts in Mali.

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_02]: It's where the basketball teams practice for the Mali Invitational.

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_06]: I love that we were in Hawaii for 10 days, and the basketball court was the highlight.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I had to find it.

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Troy did his drills.

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_02]: He was popping his jumper.

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_02]: It was really great.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_02]: He actually beat me in a game of round the horn for the first time ever.

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_06]: I just liked being on the beach, and I want to make it known that when we were in Nexium,

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_06]: the line was, why would you take a vacation?

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_06]: Why would you vacate from your life?

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_06]: It was totally looked down upon to take a break, and my mom has been trying to take

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_06]: us to Hawaii for a long time, and then of course everything got pushed because of

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_06]: COVID.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_06]: As soon as we were able to fly, she booked this trip.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_06]: Big shout out to my mom.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, big shout out to Sarah's mom.

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_06]: So supportive of our healing process and taking a little break.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_06]: Anyway, we're back before we introduce our guests.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Just a couple housekeeping things.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_06]: We've been so blown away again from all of the support that we've gotten from our listeners.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_06]: We still have not decided on a name.

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_06]: We've got some options, a list, a growing list that maybe we can go over and ask me

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_06]: anything episode, which is coming up soon.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_02]: We've gotten a couple in our inbox.

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_06]: I really want to do a shout out particular to a woman named Hannah Orbach who actually

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_06]: sent us $1,000.

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_06]: And I don't know if I can express in words what this means to us.

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I can.

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_06]: It allows us to produce two more episodes.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_02]: It helps us so much.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_06]: It blows us away and also allows us to hire more people to help us do more with this

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_06]: content.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_06]: We're growing our social media team.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_06]: We're on TikTok now.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_06]: So follow us there.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm also on TikTok, although I've posted nothing because I don't know.

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_06]: Four followers, Sarah.

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_06]: I have four followers.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_06]: But I haven't posted any videos.

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_06]: What's different between TikTok and Instagram?

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know yet.

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_02]: TikTok is used more.

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm so behind on all of this, but this is the kind of stuff that we can do with more

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_06]: funds and get more content and resources out there.

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_06]: So thank you.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you.

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And we're going to do an episode where we thank everyone individually.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Even just the $5 a month is huge for us.

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_06]: That adds up.

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_02]: It adds up.

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So thank you to everyone.

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you's not enough.

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_10]: I wish we could meet everyone at some point.

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I'm sending Hannah a copy of my book.

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_06]: That's for sure.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_06]: Say thank you.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_06]: And also, thanks everyone to take the time to write us letters.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm about 150 emails behind.

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_06]: At least.

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_06]: You haven't heard from me.

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_06]: Please bear with me.

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm trying to get through them as quickly as possible.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_06]: And a lot of people actually write very extensive feedback, sometimes positive, and constructive

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_06]: criticism.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_06]: And I appreciate that.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_06]: We're learning and we're learning and growing.

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it means we're doing it right if people are thinking and even having problems

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_02]: with it, we get to learn too.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So I like that process.

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I like getting constructive feedback that even though I kind of feel a little bit, I don't

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_02]: know, you have that pang in your solar plex where you think it's coming.

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_02]: But if you walk away from the email, transcending that and coming away with a little bit of

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_02]: nugget that helps you, you get to grow and informs your audience.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's a healthy relationship in that regard.

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So I love that.

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_06]: I love that too, especially with the last one with Cameron about corporate culture.

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_06]: I think what was interesting for that, I thought we had expressed this, that this

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_06]: was like sort of one side.

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_06]: This is coming from the angle of somebody who was in the power position trying to figure

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_06]: out his responsibility and where things went too far.

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_06]: Obviously, it's a much bigger topic and down the road, we'd love to do another one

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_06]: with somebody who is on the other side of the corporate culture and was like in one

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_06]: of those companies and can give us some insider information and how they left it.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_02]: To your point, Sarah, you have to be able to have, I don't know, messy

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_02]: conversations where you don't get it right.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_06]: We're not going to get it right all the time.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you're offended, hang in there.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_06]: You may also be offended by this next episode where we cover the Jehovah's

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_06]: Witnesses fondly referred to in the space is the J-Dubs.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_06]: The J-Dubs.

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, we took a little break from some of the heavier content that we've

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_06]: been doing recently, partly with Cameron and also partly with Ian, our next guest.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Although they all have a heavy aspect to them, I think too.

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, all that to say is I think we'd need to do another episode with

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_06]: somebody who, and I have a couple of people lined up who have had a much

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_06]: darker experience in the Jehovah's Witnesses church.

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_06]: But I think that it's great that we have this one to sort of set the stage.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, also, I mean, that's the way these things work, right?

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_02]: People had a way darker experience than we did in Nexium.

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_02]: So you're not going to get everyone who's going to come in and guns a blaze.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And some people actually could have a positive experience and leave.

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_06]: That reminds me, someone wrote me, and I think this is a really good distinction.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_06]: They were giving me feedback.

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_06]: They felt that I was finding the silver linings in terms of what's

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_06]: showing what's good about some of these people.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_06]: And I really want to stress, I'm not trying to do that.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm trying to show what looks good on the outside that draws people in.

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not saying, oh, but they did this good thing in the same way.

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_06]: I might say like, yeah, I got good out of Nexium.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_06]: And for me, I did get some good out of Nexium, but obviously a lot

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_06]: of bad things exist and that we talk about that.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_06]: So I just want to make that clear moving forward when we're showing

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_06]: what was good about it, we're not trying to make excuses for them or be

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_06]: apologists. We're trying to show what it looks like so you can see

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_06]: that kind of red flag when presented with such things.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I think we've demonstrated that at this point.

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I hope so. Let's introduce Ian.

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, Ian James Corlett.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_06]: His voice has been heard by millions of people as the voice of iconic

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_06]: cartoon characters, major TV networks, national brands.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_06]: That's how we met in the voice world.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_06]: You may have heard him in the Emmy nominated dinosaur train in

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_06]: cartoon networks, Zany, Johnny Test or in the latest Disney

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Junior hit, Vampirina.

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And going further back, Ian originated the iconic English

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_02]: dub voice of Goku in Dragon Ball Z, as well as voicing other

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_02]: nineties icons such as Mega Man, which I remember and Bob in Reboot.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_06]: He really is a big deal in the voice community here in Vancouver.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_06]: I actually met him in the studio and I'll let him tell that story

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_06]: when we get to the interview.

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_06]: Ian spent most of his time in front of a microphone, but today

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_06]: it's to voice a different kind of story, his own.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_02]: He joins us to share his journey from born and raised

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Jehovah Witness to church elder to ex J Dubb.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And just an FYI, he might get disfellowshipped just for

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_02]: being on this episode, which if you don't know, is just the

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_02]: polite way of staying shunned.

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_06]: It sounds a little bit culty without further ado.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Ian Corlett.

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Ian Corlett.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_07]: We're doing it.

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_07]: It accounted for.

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_06]: Present.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_06]: I think this is history in the making.

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_07]: I think so too.

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean we go way back.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_07]: I remember when this podcast was a glimmer in your eye.

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_06]: Yep.

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_06]: We reconnected around the time of the vow.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_06]: And then when we started the podcast, you from the beginning

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_06]: were like, you need to do an episode on the Jehovah's

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Witnesses.

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_06]: And I was like, yes we do.

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_06]: And the whole time you're like, one day I'll tell my story.

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Then all of a sudden you were ready.

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_07]: This is my coming out.

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_06]: How do you feel about that?

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Um, great and a little cautious.

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, I'm not a cautious person, but when it

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_07]: comes to this part of my life, I've always been very

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_07]: cautious because you wouldn't have known, even though

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_07]: we worked together, we didn't work together tons.

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_07]: But I was never one of those J.W.'s that's short for Jehovah's

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Witnesses.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_06]: And we can use that from now on.

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_06]: The J.D.U.B.s.

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_06]: It takes too long to say.

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_06]: J.D.U.B.s.

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_07]: The J.D.U.B.s.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_07]: So I was never one of those J.D.U.B.s who wore it

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_07]: on my sleeve and like proselytizing all the time,

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_07]: which is very much encouraged.

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_07]: But we'll get into this.

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, thank the plastic Jesus for my parents who really

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_07]: said, look, you've got to you've got to exist in this

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_07]: world.

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_07]: So don't be nuts.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_07]: So so thank goodness.

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, great.

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_07]: I referred to them as as like small L liberal J.D.U.B.s.

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_07]: They were fully in, fully, fully in, but they didn't

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_07]: sweat the small stuff the way a lot of J.D.U.B.s do.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_07]: So you're not going to hear about my horrible

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_07]: childhood because it wasn't.

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_07]: They were great.

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_07]: And I really feel awful for people who, you know, did

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_07]: suffer under this system because that's by far the

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_07]: more normal classic J.W.

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_07]: story for kids.

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_07]: It's like it was just a living hell, especially if

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_07]: you had parents who really wanted you under the thumb.

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Absolutely.

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_06]: We're definitely going to want to hear about your

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_06]: journey being a J.W.

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_06]: Before we even get to that, we wanted to give our

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_06]: listeners who don't know much about Jova's Witnesses

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_06]: the cliff notes.

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_06]: But before that, can we tell our audience our

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_06]: connection and how we met and.

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Let's see if our stories line up.

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_06]: Put it into context.

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_05]: I have a pretty strong recollection, but you

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_05]: tell, you go first and then I'll tell you mine.

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_07]: We knew each other as you do in, especially in

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Vancouver.

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_07]: It's a pretty small community of voice actors.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_07]: And that's like that.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_07]: That's almost entirely my career other than writing,

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_07]: but I've never been an actor in terms of like on

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_07]: screen stuff.

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_07]: So the incident that I remember where, where this

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_07]: true connection came about between you and me was,

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_07]: I think we were working on a show called Geronimo

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Stilton based on the books.

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Like you were all over that, right?

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_06]: I was Taya Stilton.

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_06]: I was Geronimo.

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_07]: You were really, and I was a guest or something.

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_07]: So I showed up and as you do, you chat.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_07]: And I had mentioned this is around 08, 09, 10,

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_07]: somewhere in there.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know what it was.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_07]: I was writing a book and the book was entitled

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_07]: E Is For Ethics.

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_07]: And this actually does connect to being a J.

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Dub because we were on the way out.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_07]: We were ready to go.

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_07]: And I wanted to, I had two little kids at

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_07]: the time and I wanted to write a book that

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_07]: engaged kids and families to talk about ethics,

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_07]: like compassion, empathy, honesty, stuff like that.

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_07]: So I was talking about this book and it did get

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_07]: published and you heard about it.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_06]: And I have it.

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_06]: You gave me a copy later.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_07]: So clearly the ethics thing, Nexium.

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_07]: That was my way.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_07]: That's a buzzword.

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Ooh, big, big buzzword.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_05]: That's a big Nexium buzzword.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_07]: You weren't getting out of there without a pitch.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_07]: Nope.

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_07]: No.

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_07]: And I was very familiar with pitches.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_05]: What did I say?

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't even remember this.

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, we were just talking and I got to say,

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm sure you've got detractors and like, oh, Sarah,

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_07]: you know, you were in this thing and I don't care

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_07]: if you apologize or whatever.

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_07]: But what appealed to me is almost immediately

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_07]: you kind of downplayed the weirdness of Nexium,

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_07]: which I thought that's exactly what I did as a witness.

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_07]: It's like, it's not that weird.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_07]: It's not really, you know, just get past that

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_07]: because here's all the good stuff.

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_07]: And, you know, you concentrated on the good stuff.

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Right?

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_07]: The executive program or whatever it was.

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_07]: But here's what got me.

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_07]: This was the hook.

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_07]: You dangled Mark Vicente's name and I had just

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_07]: watched what the bleep do we know.

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_07]: I was in sort of searcher mode, I guess, because we're

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_07]: like, we're almost out or we were out at the time, like done.

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_07]: And, you know, when you when you come out of something

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_07]: like that, you're looking for, well, there's got to be

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_07]: something else that I can, you know, join even though

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_07]: those that know me, I am like the least joiny person ever.

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Like I run from that.

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Let me go.

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you must have been allergic.

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_07]: So anyway, that's what got me.

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_07]: You should meet my friend.

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_07]: He's the director of what the bleep do we know.

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm in because I'm all about networking.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_07]: So off I went to your location on Georgia.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, we go.

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_07]: I think it was downstairs.

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, it was.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Yep.

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_07]: In the basement.

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_07]: We're sitting there and I'm meeting this guy.

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_07]: It's very engaging.

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, he's made this thing that I appreciate.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_07]: This is really great.

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_07]: And then you guys started talking and I knew it was

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_07]: coming about the programs and, you know, and I think

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_07]: to encapsulate it, I hope I was polite.

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_07]: You were very polite.

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_07]: My response was sort of two or three things.

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_07]: One, how much is it?

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm successful, but my career doesn't mean that much to me.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, babies need new shoes.

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_07]: So okay, there's a there's the first non-starter.

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_07]: The second non-starter was I just came out of this thing

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_07]: that, you know, it's like all consuming.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, this here's the rules.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Here's the stuff.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_07]: And I went, I'm not in a big rush to get into something else.

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_07]: And the third big one was speaking of allergic.

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_07]: I am allergic to anything run by a dude like period.

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_07]: And then I remember saying this to you, right?

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_07]: I said, yeah, I looked at it.

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_07]: I looked some stuff up and you call them Vanguard.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_07]: And that was another one of those sermons.

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, I knew what I knew how to handle that one.

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's just a name for a leader of a philosophical movement.

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Just ignore that red flag.

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm going to be a real tough sell.

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_07]: I just that that was my position.

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Fair.

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_07]: So how do you remember it?

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, I remember the second half.

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't remember pitching you at Geronimo Stilton,

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_06]: although I believe you that happened.

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_06]: I remember the book part.

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_06]: I thought it was our mutual friend whose name I'm not going to mention,

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_06]: who is also in voiceover, who brought you to that intro.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_06]: That's what I had remembered.

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it was me.

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_02]: You use Mark Vicente.

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Mark Vicente is indirectly, I think,

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_02]: responsible for a lot of the enrollments.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_02]: His name has dropped in a lot of meetings.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_06]: With his permission, like, yeah, I was nobody and I was like writing

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_06]: the what the bleep coattails for sure because he had street cred.

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_06]: I would ask people, have you seen what the bleep?

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_06]: And if their answer would determine my next step

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_06]: and then I would go from there.

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_06]: And so that was part of the whole package or whatever.

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_06]: But I thought it was our mutual friend who's also in voiceover

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_06]: that brought you.

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't realize it was me.

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_07]: I found out about the mutual friend later and went, oh, okay.

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Interesting.

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_06]: I trust your memory on that.

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_06]: I remember sitting with you and just being like,

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_06]: I would love Ian to do this because like,

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_06]: I just felt like I connected with you,

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_06]: which clearly we did later legitimately as we are now.

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_06]: And then you were like, I like this and I like you and I like Mark.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_06]: And but I'm an ex J.W.

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Which I think is I didn't know anything about.

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_06]: Like I knew there were some weird things

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_06]: like I had a friend who grew up

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_06]: and I knew couldn't have birthday parties

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_06]: and I heard about the blood transfusion thing

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_06]: that J.W.s can't accept blood.

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_06]: So I had like those two data points,

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_06]: but I didn't have the whole,

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_06]: like for me, it's just like another offshoot of Christianity

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_06]: that's a little bit strict.

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, like that's all I really knew.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_06]: Then and then it was extreme, you know.

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_06]: And so when you said that,

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_06]: I was like what I'd been told is that people project

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_06]: their own experiences when they see something and they think,

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_06]: oh, I see this, this and this.

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_06]: Therefore it is like X, Y, Z that I've already experienced.

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_06]: I just thought you were wrong.

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, just like I understand

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_06]: that that's what you're seeing and you're reacting to it.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_06]: But that's like a wrong projection.

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_06]: And that this is not that.

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, that was our own

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_02]: our own gaslighting of ourselves.

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Right? Right.

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's like we're saying,

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_06]: I know that's what you think you're seeing.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_06]: You were intuitively picking up on all the red flags

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_06]: that so many people miss, you know,

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_06]: because you'd already been through it.

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. And it was all I knew.

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Right. So now, fortunately,

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_07]: we were not a like like bubble J.W.s

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_07]: where, you know, there was no outside world.

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_07]: My dad had a retail business and

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_07]: and he was that was frowned upon too.

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, how what you buy something

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_07]: at a certain price and you sell it for more.

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_07]: We should be a window cleaner where there is a wage

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_07]: and that's good honest work.

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, I mean, no one really said that out loud.

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_07]: But that was definitely a thing.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_07]: And there's a difference between a believer

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_07]: and a true believer.

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm sure you guys are, you know, well aware of that.

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Like true believers are like no doubts, nothing,

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_07]: no questioning, nothing.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_07]: And he was a skeptic.

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, anyone who knew my dad, oh, my Lord,

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_07]: was he a skeptic about everything?

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_07]: But he did sort of take the J.Dubb faith

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_07]: with less skepticism because he was a very young teen

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_07]: when his mother became a witness.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_07]: So that's part of the family history.

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_07]: So I was like third generation.

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_07]: And it really makes a big difference when you're born in.

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure, everyone's supposed to, you know,

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_07]: you know, at a certain point you the term is

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_07]: you make the truth your own and you make a decision to get baptized.

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Everyone is free to make your decision.

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, sure, you're sure you're free.

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_06]: Of course. But if you leave, then you have nothing.

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Exactly. Before we hear your whole story,

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_06]: will you tell our listeners like the sort of cliff notes

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_06]: about what's the structure of the company?

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_06]: What's the structure of the organization?

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Like fill in some of the gaps for those who are who don't know much.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_07]: I'll try to make it quick.

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_07]: It was one of the movements that came out of the Pennsylvania,

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_07]: New York area in the late 1800s.

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Lots of stuff came out around that time.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Seventh day Adventists, the Mormons were a little bit maybe earlier than that.

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Everyone was questioning the major religious groups

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_07]: and especially in that part of America.

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_07]: So that's where it came out of.

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_07]: The first guy who started the movement was Pastor Russell,

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Charles Taze Russell.

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_07]: That was about 1870.

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_07]: And they started out with a really good idea.

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Because they poured into the scriptures and said,

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_07]: what does it really say?

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you know, let's drop all the what we think it means.

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Let's dive in and be Bible students.

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_07]: So that's very appealing.

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_07]: It was something that I don't regret either

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_07]: because being a Bible student at that time.

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_07]: So like, you know, in the 70s and earlier was a major part of witness life.

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Like we're going to study these scriptures.

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_07]: So we knew the Bible way better than, you know,

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_07]: an evangelical faith or run of the mill Catholic or something like,

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_07]: you know, they just go John 316 love, love, love.

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_07]: And, you know, we were like, what is it?

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_07]: What does it really say?

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_07]: So that's where it started.

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_07]: And then he died and there was this schism.

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_07]: And, you know, then there was this corporate raider

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_07]: who became the president of the Watchtower.

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_07]: And his name was Judge Rutherford.

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think he was a judge.

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_07]: I think it was a nickname.

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not positive on that one.

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_07]: But anyway, he was, oh man, what a piece of work he was.

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_07]: He was the one that, you know, brought in,

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_07]: no, we're not going to celebrate Christmas, all sorts of stuff.

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_06]: And the concept with that is that's too worldly

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_06]: and can distract you from the true voice of God.

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_07]: It was really pragmatic.

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_07]: It was like he wasn't born on that day.

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_07]: So why would we celebrate it?

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_07]: It was a general culture of like, what's fun?

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Let's get rid of that, you know, birthdays went out around that time as well.

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_07]: So then there was this series of presidents who ran the...

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_07]: See, I just did it too, the company who ran the religion.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_07]: After Rutherford, there was a guy named Nathan Noor.

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_07]: And he each one of these eras, like Nathan Noor was in the 40s, 50s, 60s.

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_07]: And he started running it like it was IBM.

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_07]: And everyone had to start looking the same.

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_07]: And you know, here's the way you're supposed to dress.

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_07]: And congregations were more like franchises.

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_07]: This is all my projection on how the thing morphed from one thing to another.

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_07]: There was another president, Fred Franz,

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_07]: and then this concept of the governing body came into play.

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_07]: And that was in the 70s.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Now they had a governing body before.

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_06]: Which is like seven or eight dudes, right?

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, one of the things that witnesses always say

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_07]: is the light keeps getting brighter, brothers.

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_07]: And Jehovah talks to us and reveals these new truths,

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_07]: which begs a real great question.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_07]: So was Jehovah wrong?

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_07]: And that other new truth that he said, I thought he was infallible.

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_06]: This is a dumb question, maybe.

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_06]: Jehovah synonymous with God?

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Sorry.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_06]: How did I forget that?

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_06]: Just double checking.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Like, and why is he called Jehovah in this faith?

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_07]: In the scriptures.

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Any Bible, any Bible.

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_07]: First of all, the Jews do not speak God's name.

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Yahweh.

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_06]: Say Hashem.

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, Hashem.

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Exactly.

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_07]: You're not supposed to.

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_07]: You're in trouble.

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_07]: You just said it.

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Jewess.

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_06]: Hashem is mean the name.

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_07]: I thought it was Yahweh, but I don't know Hebrew.

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_06]: So I think Hashem is okay to say, but maybe I'm wrong.

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not a very good Jew.

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe that's the acceptable way to refer to God.

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_07]: I think so.

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_07]: That's probably right.

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_07]: So we in as part of this early, early movement of Bible

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_07]: studies like, Hey, why do we keep calling?

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_07]: And the Lord God said to God and then my God, you know,

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_07]: like he had a name and there was, you know, references

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_07]: for why the early witnesses said, no, we should be

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_07]: referring to him by his name.

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Would you just, you know, Nipi, would we refer to you as

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Hey man?

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, actually we do.

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_07]: It's true.

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Hey man.

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_07]: But it's like, no, you use someone's name when

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_07]: you're want to talk to someone.

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_07]: So God's name is Jehovah.

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_07]: So that was another thing growing up anytime we'd

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_07]: be watching TV or Monty Python's Life of Brian.

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_07]: And anytime there was the name Jehovah that came up,

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_07]: we just, whoa.

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, we know that.

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, that's insider stuff, you know.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_07]: So Jehovah's witnesses are witnesses to the Lord God

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_07]: whose name is Jehovah.

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_07]: So that's the name.

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_07]: I should have started with that.

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_06]: That's OK.

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm all about the structure of it because it really

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_07]: is the structure is everything.

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_07]: So this governing body came into play and from

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_07]: the early 70s, this became the new thing.

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_07]: OK, we may still have a president but the governing

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_07]: body of seven, eight men.

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_02]: How is that determined?

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Self-elected, right?

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_07]: And the Lord came unto me and said, you are.

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_07]: And of course there's politicking, of course.

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So what happens if you just decided the Lord

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_02]: came to you?

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Are you now in competition for that?

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Like what's the...

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_07]: No, because I'm not in Bethel.

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not in the system.

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Bethel is like the headquarters where people

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_07]: live and work.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_07]: So there are other members of the 144,000.

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_07]: So we do believe in heaven but we believe that

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_07]: there's a very, very limited number of people

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_07]: because of something in Revelation that will go to...

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_07]: So the rest of us are looking forward to a

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_07]: paradise earth.

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_07]: So you're going to die and then in the

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_07]: twinkling of an eye, you're going to wake up

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_07]: in paradise.

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Hey!

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Who wants to go to heaven anyway?

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Clouds and harps.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Earth is better.

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_07]: We know what this is.

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_07]: So that was what the teachings were, not to

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_07]: make light of it but that's what it was.

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_06]: But overall like the thing that I got and just

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_06]: from the brief prep with A.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Reading Amber Scora's book, Leaving the

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_06]: Witness and Leah Remedy and Mike

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_06]: Rinders after math show on Jehovah's

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_06]: Witness we got a pretty good backstory of

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_06]: like the fundamental beliefs.

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_06]: But some of the recaps that kind of stuck out

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_06]: to me was that higher education isn't

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_06]: necessary because you don't need that and

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_06]: utopia that it's God's one true

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_06]: organization.

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_06]: If you are going to go to utopia since there

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_06]: are only 144,000 spots, you have to prove

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_06]: yourself like you're not even if you're

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_06]: J.W. you're not going to be guaranteed a

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_06]: spot you have to be good and pure.

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Faith is demonstrated by your works but

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_07]: the vast majority I mean there's millions

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_07]: of J.W.'s so the vast majority of them

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_07]: don't have that hope of being one of

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_07]: the 144,000 to go to heaven but you

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_07]: still get paradise on earth.

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_06]: So it was one or the other as long as

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_06]: you're J.W.

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah it's one or the other.

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_07]: All right.

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_07]: You know that doctrine has changed over

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_07]: the years as well and this is going to

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_07]: get into where I started to go.

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_07]: I think I'm out.

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_06]: When I first came out of Nexium, one of

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_06]: the first interviews that I did was

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_06]: before the vow was for A&E it was

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_06]: called Cults and Extreme Beliefs.

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_06]: I remember having a conversation with

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_06]: one of the crew and they'd also done

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_06]: an episode with some J.W.

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_06]: survivors and I said so what's like

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_06]: what's the bad thing that's going on

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_06]: there?

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_06]: Like what's culty about it?

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_06]: And he looked at me as like dude

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_06]: it's a safe haven for pedophiles.

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_02]: That's the whole thing about J.W.

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_02]: It has a benign reputation right?

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_06]: That's what I wanted to ask Ian like

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_06]: is that the main abuse like obviously

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_06]: there's lots of things like check off

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_06]: the cult list and we'll talk about

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_06]: those things but like that seems to be

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_06]: the main problem that I see.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_06]: Is that accurate?

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_07]: It is but if I may because that does

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_07]: like blend really really easily into us

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_07]: leaving.

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm going to be an apologist a little

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_07]: bit for the J.W.s and this is this

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_07]: is a question I have for for you guys

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_07]: and for everyone listening because I

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_07]: mean this cult thing is crazy in

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_07]: today's world like everything is a

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_07]: cult everything.

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_07]: So put yourself back in the 1930s

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_07]: and someone comes to your door and

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_07]: everyone's got a religion right?

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_07]: That's a different time it's a

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_07]: different place people are leaning

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_07]: on their fence posts say neighbor

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_07]: you know all of that stuff and

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_07]: you're a member of the Catholic

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_07]: church or you know some of the

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_07]: church of England or you know one of

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_07]: the big three and someone comes along

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_07]: and goes you know what all of that is

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_07]: bullshit and we have a belief

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_07]: system based on the same Bible that

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_07]: you read and study and believe in

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_07]: and there's no hell that was a huge

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_07]: doctrinal.

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_06]: There's no hell but there is Satan.

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_07]: No hell fire.

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_06]: What's Satan do?

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_06]: What's he up to?

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_07]: He's a temptress.

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Satan's a bad guy and he's in

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_07]: control of the world.

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_07]: So here's another little sidebar as

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_07]: the Jehovah's Witnesses believe so

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_07]: we're living in the last days.

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Satan's in control.

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_07]: He's really stirring things up and

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_07]: then Jesus came to stay with me.

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Jesus came into being on the

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_07]: earth in 1914 and he's kind of

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_07]: watching stuff but he's he's here

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_07]: but he's not really you know he's

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_07]: not going to get his fingers involved

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_07]: and get dirty as Satan goes and

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_07]: does all this bad stuff and oh it's

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_07]: getting worse it's getting worse

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_07]: we're in the end of the end of

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_07]: the end of the end of the end and

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_07]: then Armageddon is going to happen

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_07]: which is the mighty battle then we

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_07]: will have paradise on earth for a

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_07]: thousand years and then Jehovah God

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_07]: is going to put Satan in jail for

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_07]: that period of time and then he's

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_07]: going to let him out because he's

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_07]: a good guy parole right as a great

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_07]: comedian once said you know here's

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_07]: my problem with with this whole

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_07]: story about you know God and the

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_07]: devil wasn't he an ex-employee

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_07]: shouldn't you have been able to

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_07]: do something about that guy Satan

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_07]: no no no we're just going to let

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_07]: him go and he was a bad dude

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_07]: yeah he used to be an angel but

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_07]: now he's a bad guy my hands are

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_07]: tied what can I do well apparently

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_07]: you're God you can do whatever you

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_07]: want so there's like these are sort

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_07]: of general religious things that I

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_07]: have issue with that are Christian

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_07]: things like wait a second that

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_07]: doesn't add up so back to my crazy

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_07]: story so then after a thousand

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_07]: years then there's going to be

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_07]: another battle between God and

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Satan and God will be victorious

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_07]: and then it's going to be extra

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_07]: special after that where does the

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_06]: Armageddon fit into that well that

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_07]: was that was the big battle that

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_07]: like where we're living now Armageddon

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_07]: is going to come now could be the

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Russians with the nukes and that's

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_07]: a whole nother prophetic there's

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_02]: always a boogeyman right well yeah

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_07]: yeah the king of the north is what

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_07]: the Bible refers to Russia as so

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_07]: so we say so anyway so that like

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_07]: there's there's the house of cards

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_07]: right and me being a of an actor

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_07]: and a screenwriter and a creator

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_07]: of fiction I go wait a second if

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_07]: it's all written down that in the

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_07]: end end end of the end there's going

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_07]: to be a battle and God's going to

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_07]: win why don't we just cut to the

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_07]: chase what are we doing all this

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_07]: for oh well that wouldn't be a

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_07]: great story and that wouldn't keep

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_07]: people in and that wouldn't you

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_07]: know our religious world is over

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_07]: and that goes for every Christian

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_07]: religion no matter if they're high

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_06]: control or not we tell our stories

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_06]: we change the world a little bit

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_06]: Colt is proud to support the

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_06]: hashtag I got out project which

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_06]: empowers survivors of cultic abuse

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_06]: to share their stories online as a

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_06]: catalyst for education prevention and

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_06]: healing learn more about the hashtag

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_06]: I got out movement and find

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[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_07]: So this gets me to

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_07]: cults.

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_07]: You guys are experts on it

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_07]: and everyone that you talk to

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_07]: is an expert and you know it

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_07]: builds on the data that you

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_07]: get.

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_07]: And I don't believe that

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Pastor Charles Taze Russell

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_07]: when he sat down and cracked

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_07]: the books open and said let's

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_07]: look at this.

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think he was

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_07]: starting a cult.

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think at all.

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_07]: I think cults can develop.

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Now it's different if there's

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_07]: one dude like Elron Hubbard.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_07]: OK he literally is is on the

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_07]: record with his buddies of

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_07]: going I'm going to sell people

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_07]: a piece of blue sky.

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_07]: And that's it.

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean that's a you're started

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_07]: a cult.

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_07]: OK so that's really obvious

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_07]: with the witnesses.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm kind of kind like I'm

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_07]: try to be really realistic and

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think it started

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_07]: that way.

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_07]: So now back to my family

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_07]: history.

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_07]: So someone's knocking on your

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_07]: door and they say you know what

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_07]: all that stuff you're learning

[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_07]: and you know the collection

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_07]: plate and at every church we

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_07]: don't do that.

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_07]: We don't believe in hell when

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_07]: you die you die.

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_07]: And if you're you know a bad

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_07]: dude you're just not coming

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_07]: back to life in the paradise.

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh well that's not so bad but

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_07]: sure like to live in that

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_07]: paradise.

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_07]: So OK I'm in if everyone around

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_07]: you has a religion of record

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_07]: everyone you know except for

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_07]: those you know long haired

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_07]: philosophers in in the early

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_07]: days you kind of go well I

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_07]: don't really love the religion

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm in.

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_07]: One of the key historical points

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_07]: of the early J.

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Dubbs is they were kicking the

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_07]: crap out of the Catholic

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_07]: church like they called them

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_07]: out all the time.

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_07]: One of the greatest pan flits

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_07]: in the late 1930s from this

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Judge Rutherford guy who was

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_07]: running the show was religion

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_07]: is a snare and a rack.

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_07]: So I mean that's appealing to

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Joe Blow right like you go

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_07]: yes it is because I know that

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_07]: priest and he's full of

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_07]: crap.

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_07]: And oh so here's my

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_07]: my grandfather's story two

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_07]: things.

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_07]: This is in Saskatchewan he was

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_07]: born in Austria but he was a

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Ukrainian you know he would go

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_07]: into town literally in a horse

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_07]: and buggy now I mean it was the

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_07]: 30s it wasn't it wasn't like

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_07]: super oldy timey but

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_07]: you know that's what he had

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_07]: so he's he'd go into town

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_07]: and on this one occasion he

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_07]: you know he would get some

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_07]: extra butter or milk or

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_07]: whatever he was getting and he

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_07]: to go by the church and it

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_07]: was on a Friday as the

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_07]: story goes and he looks

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_07]: he's gonna goes I'm gonna

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_07]: drop off this extra milk or

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_07]: butter or whatever maybe it was

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_07]: a quarter bourbon who knows

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_07]: but I'm gonna give it to the

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_07]: priest and he looks in the

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_07]: basement of the rectory and

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_07]: he's you know where the guys

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_07]: got his apartment and he's

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_07]: cooking up a pork chop

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_07]: and it's supposed to be fish

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Friday right because they're

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Orthodox Catholic like the

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Russian church right and

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_07]: it's supposed to be fish

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Friday and this guy's having

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_07]: a big hunk of meat.

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_07]: So you know my grandfather

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_07]: he was an interesting guy he

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_07]: knocks on the door he gives

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_07]: and this stuff he goes hey what

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_07]: that was smells like pork

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_07]: chops and he goes hey George

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_07]: just just between you and me

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_07]: you know sometimes yeah it was

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_07]: it was a looked really fresh

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_07]: at the at the butcher shop.

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_07]: So I know it's supposed to be

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_07]: fish Friday you know in the

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_07]: back of his head he's gonna

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_07]: want to hypocrite we're all

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_07]: supposed to be doing you know

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_07]: toe on the line.

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_07]: So there was that little

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_07]: thing that kind of made him

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_07]: go that's not right.

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_07]: And then they had a baby

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_07]: that was stillborn and the

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_07]: church pulled the old

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_07]: purgatory thing now I don't

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_07]: know how much you guys know

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_07]: about Catholic or the belief

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_07]: in purgatory.

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_07]: But basically you know well

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_07]: we don't know if he's going to

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_07]: hell heaven or hell but a

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_07]: donation might nudge him in

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_07]: the right direction.

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_07]: And that's what they said to

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_07]: my grandparents and that did

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_07]: not sit very well at all.

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_07]: It's like our baby just died

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_07]: all of those things I'm sure

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_07]: there was other parts of the

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_07]: story meant that when Joe

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_07]: J. Dubb went hey neighbor

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_07]: I've got something for you

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_07]: and it's mostly kicking the

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_07]: crap out of those Catholics

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_07]: that I know you're on the fence

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_07]: about anyway they went OK I'm

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_07]: in. Got it.

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_07]: So interesting.

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_07]: I would have done something

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_07]: similar because it was it was

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_07]: sort of like the rebel

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_07]: religion totally the rebel

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_07]: religion.

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_06]: See I don't see that as being

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_06]: an apologist I see that as

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_06]: explain this is what we like to

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_06]: do in our pockets we'd like to

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_06]: explain why people join.

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_06]: Like what was good about it at

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_06]: the time because we all know

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_06]: nobody joins a call on purpose.

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_06]: What was that appeal that makes

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_06]: sense to me.

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_06]: And I think a lot of things

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_06]: start out that way and I

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_06]: haven't done the research and

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_06]: could say whether he had good

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_06]: intentions or bad intentions.

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_06]: But it seems like down the

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_06]: road as like this whole

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_06]: governing body with seven or

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_06]: eight dudes in New York decide

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_06]: everything overseeing branch

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_06]: committees overseeing tell my

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_06]: fabulous right circuit

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_06]: overseers overseeing elders

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_06]: overseeing the congregation.

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean that's like it's like

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_06]: our straight path.

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_06]: Like there's levels that people

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_06]: get to but the people at the

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_06]: top who chose them and how

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_06]: do they get into that position

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_06]: of power which is where it seems

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_06]: to be problematic.

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_02]: The problem I see is it's not

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_02]: enrolling you on the merits and

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_02]: principles of the religion.

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_02]: It's appealing to some sort of

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_02]: aspect of view of a hook.

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_02]: It's using your hate for

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Catholicism to align yourself

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_02]: with something and there's

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_02]: not a real ideology there.

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And it seems from what we

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_02]: saw in the A&E thing where

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_02]: someone would die they'd write

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_02]: a real letter because they

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_02]: want to know read a letter

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_02]: to them and then say how was

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_02]: this that offered as an

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_02]: alternative because I knew the

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_02]: person was vulnerable as opposed

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_02]: to an honest exchange of this is

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_02]: what the stands for you'd be a

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_02]: part of this.

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And if that's how they have

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_02]: to enroll you into an idea it's

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_02]: not a good idea.

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_07]: And it's interesting because

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_07]: even in my relatively brief

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_07]: lifespan I've seen the

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_07]: religion change and it's

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_07]: light years from when my

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_07]: grandfather said yeah that

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_07]: sounds like a good religion to

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_07]: be involved in right if I'm

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_07]: going to be in a Christian

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_07]: religion and you know to your

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_07]: point of ideology and a lot

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_07]: of the beliefs are the same

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_07]: although one huge thing that

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_07]: differentiates witnesses from

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_07]: the rest of Christianity.

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Most of the rest of

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Christianity is they view they

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_07]: don't believe in the Trinity.

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_07]: The Trinity doctrine is that

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_07]: there's the God the Father and

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_07]: the Holy Spirit and that

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_07]: they're all mysteriously one

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_07]: thing and loads of people go

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_07]: what that seems weird.

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_07]: We believe that Jesus

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_07]: actually was that we still

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_07]: do it anyway.

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_07]: The J.Dubbs takes time.

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Believe that Jesus is

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_07]: God's son and just back to

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Pastor Russell as I was

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_07]: starting to wake up one of the

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_07]: things that I did was use the

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_07]: skills that the witness world

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_07]: educated me with which I do

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_07]: not regret was we were so

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_07]: analytical and so knowledgeable

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_07]: about every other faith so that

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_07]: you could knock holes in it

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_07]: but you don't ever aim that

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_07]: gun back at us.

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_06]: Of course not.

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_07]: So I aimed that gun at

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_07]: everything and went let's

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_07]: have a look.

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_07]: So one of the things that I

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_07]: think the early early early

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_07]: founders missed was saying

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_07]: that the Bible is the

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_07]: inspired word of God and

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_07]: we're not going past this

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_07]: this book as it sits on our

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_07]: desk right now.

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_07]: If they were true Bible

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_07]: students like what happened in

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_07]: the Enlightenment in the

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_07]: 15th century they studied

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_07]: and went hang on where did

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_07]: these books come from?

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Why do we have these

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Gospels when there was all

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_07]: these other Gospels?

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_07]: And like everything and this

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_07]: gets back to my abhorrence of

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_07]: joining anything that's run

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_07]: by a bunch of dudes or one

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_07]: dude even worse.

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_07]: There was meetings about it in

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Nicaea that like OK

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_07]: let's figure out what books

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_07]: are going to be in this

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_07]: official book that we're

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_07]: going to now call the Bible.

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Well you got to go past that

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_07]: because that's politics.

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_07]: That's a bunch of guys

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_07]: sitting around in robes

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_07]: going OK what's OK then

[00:40:57] [SPEAKER_07]: let's not have the book of

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Judas not going to have

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_07]: that one and that other

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Gospel account where they

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_07]: actually show or wrote

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_07]: that Jesus was a child

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_07]: and was was using

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_07]: his superpowers to blast

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_07]: other kids that he didn't

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_07]: like and he would strike them

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_07]: dead as a as a 10 year

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_07]: old.

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Or not going to have that in

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_07]: the Bible.

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Probably a good idea.

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_06]: So it's actually a different

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_06]: Bible.

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh well no no this is the

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Bible that I'm referring to

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_07]: right now is the Bible

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_07]: that all Christians use.

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Now OK now the J.

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Dobs do have their own

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_07]: translation of the Bible.

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_07]: You can really get into the

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_07]: weeds about no

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_07]: you know that their translation

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_07]: says things that I go to

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_07]: the source which is

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not nitpicking over

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_07]: any translation like if

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_07]: if I could read Greek and

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Hebrew maybe we

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_07]: can have a discussion.

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_07]: But we're not going to

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_07]: we're not going to quarrel

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_07]: over well he refers

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_07]: to being God's son

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_07]: and God is capitalized

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_07]: so that means no no no

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_07]: no no talk about

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_07]: being in the weeds we don't

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_07]: have to do that crazy

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_07]: it's crazy.

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_07]: So where I think the fatal

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_07]: flaw in these early

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_07]: 1870s religious groups

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_07]: were is that they

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_07]: didn't go past that

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_07]: book that they had in their

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_07]: hand saying this is the Bible

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_07]: the King James version or

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_07]: whatever version

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_07]: you want to use they didn't

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_07]: go past that how did we

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_07]: get this group of texts

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_07]: because once you do that

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_07]: then the House of Cards

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_07]: really falls apart.

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_07]: You go did Jesus even

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_07]: really exist?

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_07]: There's a lot of argument

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_07]: about that not to mention

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_07]: oh boy you see got me all

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_07]: revved up not to mention

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_07]: that these quote unquote

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_07]: eyewitness gospel accounts

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_07]: were written decades

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_07]: after he was dead.

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_07]: I can't remember what I

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_07]: ordered for lunch

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_07]: let alone the word for word

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_07]: you know writings of

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_07]: something you see now

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_07]: into Bible Bible talk

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_07]: they were all based on the

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_07]: book of Mark.

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_07]: So one guy wrote something

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_07]: who knows if it was even

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Mark and then all the other

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_07]: gospel accounts went hey

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_07]: that's good I'm just going

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_07]: to continue so anyway.

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_07]: So there's my my crash course

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_07]: in Bible history.

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_06]: And we've all played the

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_06]: telephone game.

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_06]: To bring us back to your

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_06]: journey in this

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_06]: based on what I saw

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_06]: in Leigh Ann Mike's

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_06]: episode about it I was

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_06]: like well that that takes

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_06]: off all the boxes but I

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_06]: can understand how it

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_06]: didn't start that way and I

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_06]: think actually that's the

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_06]: case for a lot of groups

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_06]: starts off with good

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_06]: intentions and humans

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_06]: are fallible and how do you

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_06]: have checks and balances

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_06]: when there's only seven or

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_06]: eight dudes on the

[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_06]: governing body like that's

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_06]: like such a glaring problem

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_06]: for me anyway especially with

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_06]: some of the misogyny and

[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_06]: stuff than the women's

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_06]: subservience to men and all

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_06]: that stuff that comes later

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_06]: right.

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_07]: It's a huge problem and

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_07]: just to cap off the family

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_07]: history my uncle

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_07]: when the when the governing

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_07]: body first got set up in

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_07]: the early 70s my uncle

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_07]: was one of the major

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_07]: players in like he

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_07]: sat on the governing body.

[00:43:55] [SPEAKER_07]: So we had a direct line to

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Brooklyn Bethel and you know

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_07]: that that sort of elevated

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_07]: our family you know we're

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_07]: you know we're really in

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_07]: my dad served as an elder I

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_07]: served as an elder in the

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_07]: congregation as well.

[00:44:08] [SPEAKER_06]: What does that mean what is

[00:44:08] [SPEAKER_06]: an elder.

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Well I'm an older man even

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_07]: though I was in my 30s or

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_07]: early 40s it means that

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_07]: you're you're one of the

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_07]: guys who you know will get

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_07]: up in front of the

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_07]: congregation and give a talk

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_07]: you're one of the people

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_07]: who sits on judicial I'm

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_07]: using air quotes for your

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_07]: listeners judicial committees

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_07]: which is basically a three

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_07]: man judicial like three

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_07]: high school educated men

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_07]: basically hold in their

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_07]: hands people's lives

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_07]: because while we don't need

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_07]: a hellfire teaching to go

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_07]: you know you better get in

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_07]: line or else you're going

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_07]: straight to hell.

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_07]: No no we can ruin your life

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_07]: right now because if

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_07]: you're guilty of something

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_07]: that is unforgivable

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_07]: you will be disfellowshipped

[00:44:50] [SPEAKER_07]: and that means shunned.

[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Yep.

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_07]: So if you take away

[00:44:53] [SPEAKER_07]: someone's whole social system

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean talk about a

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_07]: control system right.

[00:44:59] [SPEAKER_07]: So very similar to

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Scientology very similar

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_07]: to Mormonism I always

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_07]: you know kindly referred

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_07]: to the witnesses as you

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_07]: know sort of Scientology

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Mormon light because

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_07]: they're the most passive

[00:45:13] [SPEAKER_07]: aggressive group you'll

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_07]: ever meet.

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean that's that's

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_07]: how they roll.

[00:45:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Kind of a question I

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_02]: have going right now.

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_02]: It seems like seeing

[00:45:22] [SPEAKER_02]: some of the stuff on A&E

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_02]: which was the extreme

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_02]: witness Jehovah Witness

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_02]: it seemed like your

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_02]: scenario has kind of one foot

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_02]: in one foot in society.

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Is that accurate?

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah it's very accurate

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_06]: kind of like us with nexium

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_02]: you could go through it

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_02]: without it being

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_02]: so dogmatic.

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_02]: So you're at the whim of

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_02]: like what region you're in

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_02]: what who's the leader in

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_02]: your elder in your region.

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Is that kind of what I'm

[00:45:45] [SPEAKER_02]: hearing.

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes and when I served

[00:45:48] [SPEAKER_07]: as an elder in our

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_07]: congregation.

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_07]: We were a pretty warm and

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_07]: fuzzy bunch.

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_07]: You know it was in the

[00:45:53] [SPEAKER_07]: in the 90s and

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_07]: you know yuppies were

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_07]: it was right downtown

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_07]: like West Side of Vancouver

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_07]: and we were kind of

[00:46:01] [SPEAKER_07]: like we believed all the

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_07]: stuff we had all the

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_07]: all the literature we had

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_07]: all the directives but

[00:46:06] [SPEAKER_07]: you know starting in the

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_07]: 70s things got a little

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_07]: softer there was a little

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_07]: bit of wiggle room but it

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_07]: depended on what kind of

[00:46:12] [SPEAKER_07]: congregation you were.

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah that's my question so

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_02]: could someone say from

[00:46:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Montana come up and want

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_02]: to community up here and

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_02]: horrified by the lack of.

[00:46:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:46:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_07]: As a matter of fact the step

[00:46:22] [SPEAKER_07]: right before being an elder

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_07]: is being a ministerial

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_07]: servant so it's like an

[00:46:26] [SPEAKER_07]: elder in training or

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_07]: whatever color sash you

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_07]: guys used to.

[00:46:30] [SPEAKER_06]: I was going to say do you

[00:46:31] [SPEAKER_06]: get a sash promotion for that.

[00:46:32] [SPEAKER_07]: No.

[00:46:32] [SPEAKER_07]: And and this was like this

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_07]: was in the in the late

[00:46:36] [SPEAKER_07]: 80s and and I had

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_07]: grown my sideburns

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_07]: like just to the bottom

[00:46:42] [SPEAKER_07]: of my ear and if you

[00:46:43] [SPEAKER_07]: if you can remember how hip

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_07]: that was at the time like

[00:46:46] [SPEAKER_07]: short hair and long

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_07]: sideburn.

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Ooh pretty cool.

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh yeah.

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_07]: I remember going to a wedding

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_07]: and and you know chat chat chat

[00:46:54] [SPEAKER_07]: and some some young guy comes

[00:46:55] [SPEAKER_07]: up and he goes you're a

[00:46:56] [SPEAKER_07]: ministerial servant.

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_07]: How do you get away with it

[00:46:59] [SPEAKER_07]: with those right.

[00:47:00] [SPEAKER_07]: That's the kind of thing that

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_07]: that you're right happen

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_07]: right so exactly to your

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_07]: point it really depended on

[00:47:06] [SPEAKER_07]: where you were like I said

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_07]: thank goodness that I had

[00:47:10] [SPEAKER_07]: the parents that I had

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_07]: because I had two older

[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_07]: brothers and we live through

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_07]: the whole you know Beatles

[00:47:16] [SPEAKER_07]: late you know 70s

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_07]: time where everyone who

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_07]: is anything had long hair

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_07]: right.

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_07]: And it didn't mean like down

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_05]: your of the era.

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_07]: So my dad would get called

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_07]: up on the carpet for

[00:47:28] [SPEAKER_07]: oh you know your son's hair

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_07]: is touching his collar

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_07]: you know that long

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_07]: not I'm not talking about

[00:47:35] [SPEAKER_07]: like you know Kurt Cobain

[00:47:36] [SPEAKER_07]: down your right.

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_06]: Let me ask you in terms

[00:47:38] [SPEAKER_06]: of your level of committedness

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_06]: had you had to get

[00:47:41] [SPEAKER_06]: a blood transfusion would

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_06]: you have accepted it or

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_07]: not. Well

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_07]: that's a good

[00:47:45] [SPEAKER_07]: question because you know

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_07]: when the doctrine first

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_07]: came in which I think

[00:47:49] [SPEAKER_07]: went back to the forties

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_07]: it was no blood

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_07]: and just to give a little

[00:47:53] [SPEAKER_07]: context it's based on

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_07]: us scripture which is really

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_07]: talking about slaughtering

[00:47:58] [SPEAKER_07]: animals and eating animals.

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_07]: So that's what we base this

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_07]: transfusion thing on you

[00:48:03] [SPEAKER_07]: well you know if it's going

[00:48:04] [SPEAKER_07]: inside you just like

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_07]: intravenous feeding when

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_07]: you're in the hospital

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_07]: you're eating it.

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_06]: Really.

[00:48:10] [SPEAKER_06]: I was very disturbed

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_06]: to see all the headlines

[00:48:12] [SPEAKER_06]: in the A&E thing about how

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_06]: many people how many

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_06]: especially kids

[00:48:16] [SPEAKER_06]: refused blood transfusion

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_06]: and then they were like idolized

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_06]: in the newspaper like the

[00:48:21] [SPEAKER_06]: local press about being

[00:48:23] [SPEAKER_06]: these martyrs.

[00:48:24] [SPEAKER_07]: It was like a horrified it was

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_07]: horrifying and frankly I

[00:48:27] [SPEAKER_07]: always thought you know what

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_07]: I'll take the heat especially

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_07]: when it came to kids in

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Canada you know as we

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_07]: started having our kids I

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_07]: took the position look

[00:48:35] [SPEAKER_07]: social services or whatever

[00:48:37] [SPEAKER_07]: the you know government

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_07]: entity was they'll

[00:48:41] [SPEAKER_07]: literally go thanks crazy

[00:48:43] [SPEAKER_07]: religious people were taking

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_07]: it from here and they would

[00:48:45] [SPEAKER_07]: give your kid whatever it

[00:48:47] [SPEAKER_07]: needed and if that included

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_07]: a blood transfusion that

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_07]: included blood transfusion.

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Good.

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_07]: So I always went you know

[00:48:53] [SPEAKER_07]: what that's going to be my

[00:48:54] [SPEAKER_07]: out because I that one I'm

[00:48:55] [SPEAKER_07]: not buying and there's

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_07]: a reason why I'm not buying

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_07]: it because in the

[00:49:00] [SPEAKER_07]: early days was just like no

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_07]: blood transfusions and then

[00:49:02] [SPEAKER_07]: in the 70s 80s like then

[00:49:05] [SPEAKER_07]: they would write these

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_07]: incredibly complicated

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_07]: articles about blood

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_07]: fractions and platelets

[00:49:13] [SPEAKER_07]: and white cells and they

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_07]: gave you all these loopholes

[00:49:16] [SPEAKER_07]: of course don't take whole

[00:49:18] [SPEAKER_07]: blood but if you're paying

[00:49:19] [SPEAKER_07]: attention and you went

[00:49:21] [SPEAKER_07]: all the way to grade 12

[00:49:23] [SPEAKER_07]: in your education you might

[00:49:24] [SPEAKER_07]: catch that there's a kind

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_07]: of an out here you can take

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_07]: that just don't take whole

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_07]: blood and that the whole

[00:49:30] [SPEAKER_07]: you know community a whole

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_07]: system of older men

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_07]: were created to go to

[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_07]: hospitals you know to

[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_07]: explain this sort of thing

[00:49:39] [SPEAKER_07]: here's what we can take

[00:49:39] [SPEAKER_07]: here's what we can't take

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_07]: and again Joe blow J.W.

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_07]: street level those poor

[00:49:45] [SPEAKER_07]: people would just go no blood

[00:49:46] [SPEAKER_07]: no blood that's what it says

[00:49:48] [SPEAKER_07]: no blood and for anyone who

[00:49:50] [SPEAKER_07]: was kind of paying attention

[00:49:50] [SPEAKER_07]: you go hmm okay there's a

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_07]: bit of an out here I didn't

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_07]: buy it so I went I sure

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_07]: hope I never have to worry

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_07]: about it because I think

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_07]: I'll have to take the

[00:49:59] [SPEAKER_07]: punishment on that one if

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_07]: I I just go I was out of it

[00:50:02] [SPEAKER_07]: they had me so full of

[00:50:04] [SPEAKER_07]: morphine I said yes

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_06]: yeah was that one of your

[00:50:06] [SPEAKER_06]: red flags that woke you up

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_07]: cumulative yes that was

[00:50:09] [SPEAKER_07]: yeah was one of them I never

[00:50:11] [SPEAKER_07]: bought in.

[00:50:12] [SPEAKER_06]: Hey cultie listeners lovers

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_06]: of cult busting content

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_06]: ALBCers culty kids hmm

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_06]: we've gotten a lot of requests

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_06]: to put up a link where people

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_06]: can throw some funds up behind

[00:50:24] [SPEAKER_06]: the podcast and help support

[00:50:26] [SPEAKER_06]: what a little bit cult is doing

[00:50:27] [SPEAKER_06]: and you know what that's a

[00:50:28] [SPEAKER_06]: great idea thank you for that

[00:50:31] [SPEAKER_06]: and as we've gotten to know

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_06]: other podcasters and learn

[00:50:33] [SPEAKER_06]: more about this whole

[00:50:34] [SPEAKER_06]: podcast thing we've been

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_06]: learning that it takes a

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_06]: whole lot of different

[00:50:38] [SPEAKER_06]: resources and different sources

[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_06]: of revenue and listener support

[00:50:41] [SPEAKER_06]: to keep it rolling

[00:50:43] [SPEAKER_06]: sponsorships and ads

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_06]: and the occasional appeal to

[00:50:46] [SPEAKER_06]: amaze balls listeners like

[00:50:48] [SPEAKER_06]: you that's why we added a way

[00:50:49] [SPEAKER_06]: for anyone who wants to support

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_06]: the show to do exactly that

[00:50:52] [SPEAKER_06]: you can go to a little bit

[00:50:53] [SPEAKER_06]: cultie dot com slash support

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_06]: or the link in our Instagram

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_06]: bio or smash that link in our

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_06]: show notes to make a one time

[00:51:00] [SPEAKER_06]: contribution or a recurring

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_06]: one we will pay your support

[00:51:03] [SPEAKER_06]: forward with a galactic level

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_06]: of love and light and healing

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_06]: resources of course

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_06]: again it's a little bit

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_06]: cultie dot com slash support

[00:51:10] [SPEAKER_06]: or check out the link in our

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_06]: Instagram bios next up

[00:51:13] [SPEAKER_06]: we really got to figure out

[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_06]: what to call you our

[00:51:16] [SPEAKER_06]: listenership albc nation

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_06]: flying monkeys

[00:51:20] [SPEAKER_06]: we're going to have to workshop

[00:51:20] [SPEAKER_06]: that thanks guys

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[00:53:21] [SPEAKER_07]: if you want to go to what

[00:53:23] [SPEAKER_07]: woke me up yes

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_07]: let's go back

[00:53:26] [SPEAKER_07]: to 1980

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_06]: great I was three years old

[00:53:29] [SPEAKER_07]: here's something that

[00:53:31] [SPEAKER_07]: everyone who is a Jehovah's

[00:53:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Witnesses

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_07]: this might give you a clue

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_07]: as to how you know my

[00:53:38] [SPEAKER_07]: mindset

[00:53:40] [SPEAKER_07]: you're supposed to remember

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_07]: when you get baptized

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_07]: because that's the day that

[00:53:44] [SPEAKER_07]: you become a Jehovah's

[00:53:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Witness

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_07]: you're a kid but you know

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_07]: when you get baptized

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_07]: you made the decision

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_07]: and you're you're on the

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_07]: hook

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_07]: but you're you know

[00:53:51] [SPEAKER_07]: you're a fully fledged

[00:53:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Jada

[00:53:53] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't remember the date

[00:53:55] [SPEAKER_07]: you're supposed to

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_07]: it's supposed to be like

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_07]: your birthday right

[00:53:57] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know

[00:53:58] [SPEAKER_07]: I think it was 80 81

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_07]: so somewhere in there

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_07]: anyway

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_07]: so I get baptized

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_07]: and one of the

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_07]: key key doctrinal points

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_07]: my whole life growing up

[00:54:11] [SPEAKER_07]: was 1914

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_07]: if you've been paying attention

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_07]: at home was

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_07]: when Jesus came to the

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_07]: earth and this is when

[00:54:18] [SPEAKER_07]: everything changed

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_07]: and the doctrine was

[00:54:21] [SPEAKER_07]: this generation

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_07]: alive in 1914

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_07]: shall not pass away

[00:54:27] [SPEAKER_07]: before the end comes

[00:54:29] [SPEAKER_07]: well there's a lot of

[00:54:30] [SPEAKER_07]: definitions of what a

[00:54:32] [SPEAKER_07]: generation is

[00:54:32] [SPEAKER_07]: right

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_07]: some people have it as

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_07]: small as 25 years

[00:54:36] [SPEAKER_07]: right it's like a generation

[00:54:38] [SPEAKER_07]: the kids have kids

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_07]: right

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_07]: and then others

[00:54:41] [SPEAKER_07]: well no it's more like

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_07]: 60 or 70 it's like this

[00:54:44] [SPEAKER_07]: anyway there's

[00:54:45] [SPEAKER_07]: there's

[00:54:45] [SPEAKER_07]: there's a lot of wiggle

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_07]: room in there

[00:54:48] [SPEAKER_07]: but even without the wiggle

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_07]: room

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_07]: I kind of did the math

[00:54:51] [SPEAKER_07]: in the early 80s

[00:54:53] [SPEAKER_07]: and I went

[00:54:53] [SPEAKER_07]: okay

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_07]: like in in 83

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_07]: or 84

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_07]: that means

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_07]: 1914 those people are

[00:55:00] [SPEAKER_07]: 70

[00:55:01] [SPEAKER_07]: well hardly anyone lives to

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_07]: 100

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_07]: so

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_07]: if we're getting to the

[00:55:06] [SPEAKER_07]: 90s

[00:55:06] [SPEAKER_07]: I thought

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_07]: and if they change

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_07]: the goalposts

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_07]: if there's some doctrinal

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_07]: you know we've been

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_07]: thinking

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_07]: and maybe it's not

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_07]: exactly that those

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_07]: people and

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_07]: and by the way that's

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_07]: that's someone who's

[00:55:21] [SPEAKER_07]: born in 1914

[00:55:24] [SPEAKER_07]: the old doctrine was

[00:55:25] [SPEAKER_07]: you had to be aware

[00:55:27] [SPEAKER_07]: and and like

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_07]: ooh

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_07]: the world changed

[00:55:30] [SPEAKER_07]: in 1914 so

[00:55:31] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean at minimum

[00:55:32] [SPEAKER_07]: you've got to be 10

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_07]: or 15

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_07]: to make it

[00:55:35] [SPEAKER_07]: make any sense

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_07]: you're not a little kid

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_07]: so

[00:55:38] [SPEAKER_07]: I just made this marker

[00:55:39] [SPEAKER_07]: in my head

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_07]: if they change the goalposts

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_07]: in the late 80s

[00:55:43] [SPEAKER_07]: or 90s

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_07]: ah

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm out

[00:55:47] [SPEAKER_07]: and sure enough

[00:55:48] [SPEAKER_07]: they did

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_07]: basically what they

[00:55:50] [SPEAKER_07]: started doing was

[00:55:51] [SPEAKER_07]: well

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_07]: this generation is

[00:55:53] [SPEAKER_07]: a little fuzzy

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_07]: so it's

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_07]: well we might have

[00:55:55] [SPEAKER_07]: had that wrong

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_07]: again

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_07]: I thought the light

[00:55:58] [SPEAKER_07]: came from

[00:55:59] [SPEAKER_07]: your God

[00:56:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Jehovah

[00:56:00] [SPEAKER_07]: and why would he give you

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_07]: wrong information

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_07]: the first time

[00:56:03] [SPEAKER_07]: well it became brighter

[00:56:04] [SPEAKER_07]: it's like a dimmer switch

[00:56:05] [SPEAKER_07]: so

[00:56:06] [SPEAKER_07]: maybe we

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_07]: maybe we got it wrong

[00:56:08] [SPEAKER_07]: okay

[00:56:09] [SPEAKER_07]: fine

[00:56:09] [SPEAKER_07]: so then they changed it to

[00:56:11] [SPEAKER_07]: those who were

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_07]: it's like a

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_07]: like a

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_07]: a rally race

[00:56:15] [SPEAKER_07]: so

[00:56:16] [SPEAKER_07]: you could have a handoff

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_07]: and so if you knew someone

[00:56:19] [SPEAKER_07]: who was one of that

[00:56:20] [SPEAKER_07]: 144,000

[00:56:22] [SPEAKER_07]: oh my god

[00:56:22] [SPEAKER_07]: you're one of the

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_07]: 144,000

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_07]: you can kind of go

[00:56:26] [SPEAKER_07]: oh well you saw it

[00:56:27] [SPEAKER_07]: so I'm in

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_07]: and then it got really fuzzy

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_06]: this seems to be a

[00:56:32] [SPEAKER_06]: a through line in with our

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_06]: guests is that

[00:56:34] [SPEAKER_06]: people start to do the

[00:56:35] [SPEAKER_06]: math

[00:56:35] [SPEAKER_06]: on something

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_06]: in their group

[00:56:37] [SPEAKER_06]: and they're like

[00:56:38] [SPEAKER_06]: wait a second

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_06]: and the goalpost

[00:56:40] [SPEAKER_06]: keeps changing

[00:56:40] [SPEAKER_06]: as happened many times

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_06]: with us in Nexium

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_06]: as you probably

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_06]: yeah

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_06]: have heard or read

[00:56:45] [SPEAKER_06]: you know they keep

[00:56:45] [SPEAKER_06]: changing what the criteria

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_06]: were for certain things

[00:56:48] [SPEAKER_07]: that was the

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_07]: the beginning

[00:56:50] [SPEAKER_07]: the drip drip drip

[00:56:51] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know

[00:56:53] [SPEAKER_07]: now by this time

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm married

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_07]: and in 97

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_07]: we have our first child

[00:56:57] [SPEAKER_07]: and I've started to have a real

[00:56:59] [SPEAKER_07]: hmm

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_07]: okay

[00:57:01] [SPEAKER_07]: that's child number one

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_07]: two years later

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_07]: child number two comes around

[00:57:05] [SPEAKER_07]: and I went

[00:57:05] [SPEAKER_07]: okay now I got two

[00:57:06] [SPEAKER_07]: there's a 50% chance

[00:57:08] [SPEAKER_07]: one of these

[00:57:10] [SPEAKER_07]: is gonna

[00:57:10] [SPEAKER_07]: want to do

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_07]: something in the world

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_07]: that I

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_07]: work in for a living

[00:57:14] [SPEAKER_07]: and

[00:57:16] [SPEAKER_07]: I do not

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_07]: I did not

[00:57:18] [SPEAKER_07]: want to subject

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_07]: any of my kids

[00:57:20] [SPEAKER_07]: to what I

[00:57:21] [SPEAKER_07]: had to go through

[00:57:22] [SPEAKER_07]: now

[00:57:22] [SPEAKER_07]: this is not

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_07]: try

[00:57:24] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not a victim

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_07]: of

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_07]: child sexual

[00:57:27] [SPEAKER_07]: abuse

[00:57:28] [SPEAKER_07]: or like

[00:57:28] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't have any of those

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_07]: sorts of horror stories

[00:57:31] [SPEAKER_07]: but

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_07]: what

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_07]: I had to do

[00:57:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Sarah

[00:57:34] [SPEAKER_07]: you'll

[00:57:34] [SPEAKER_07]: you will get this

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_07]: I started in

[00:57:36] [SPEAKER_07]: voiceover in Vancouver

[00:57:37] [SPEAKER_07]: before there was any

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_07]: animation

[00:57:39] [SPEAKER_07]: before there was anything else

[00:57:40] [SPEAKER_07]: happening

[00:57:40] [SPEAKER_07]: and it was commercials

[00:57:41] [SPEAKER_07]: and every year

[00:57:43] [SPEAKER_07]: around

[00:57:43] [SPEAKER_07]: late August, September

[00:57:45] [SPEAKER_07]: I would start getting

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_07]: booked for commercials

[00:57:47] [SPEAKER_07]: and I would have to kind of

[00:57:49] [SPEAKER_07]: cagey

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Lee

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think that's a word

[00:57:51] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah

[00:57:53] [SPEAKER_07]: interrogate

[00:57:53] [SPEAKER_07]: the people who were booking me

[00:57:55] [SPEAKER_07]: to find out if it was a

[00:57:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Christmas commercial

[00:57:58] [SPEAKER_07]: because I knew that would be

[00:58:00] [SPEAKER_07]: like

[00:58:00] [SPEAKER_07]: I'd be in deep trouble

[00:58:02] [SPEAKER_07]: if I

[00:58:02] [SPEAKER_07]: did a Christmas commercial

[00:58:04] [SPEAKER_07]: so all these

[00:58:04] [SPEAKER_07]: all these production companies

[00:58:06] [SPEAKER_07]: it was a different world then

[00:58:07] [SPEAKER_07]: right like that

[00:58:07] [SPEAKER_07]: production company would just

[00:58:08] [SPEAKER_07]: hire you

[00:58:09] [SPEAKER_07]: they didn't even audition

[00:58:10] [SPEAKER_07]: you just get the gig

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_07]: because you know there was a

[00:58:13] [SPEAKER_07]: smaller talent pool

[00:58:14] [SPEAKER_07]: and you know

[00:58:15] [SPEAKER_07]: people knew you could do it

[00:58:16] [SPEAKER_07]: you were one of them

[00:58:16] [SPEAKER_06]: you were the one of the main

[00:58:17] [SPEAKER_07]: so

[00:58:17] [SPEAKER_07]: you're the lifeguard

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_07]: and I'm sure these guys

[00:58:20] [SPEAKER_07]: would

[00:58:20] [SPEAKER_07]: would go

[00:58:21] [SPEAKER_07]: what does that matter

[00:58:22] [SPEAKER_07]: but you know

[00:58:23] [SPEAKER_07]: I was always really careful

[00:58:25] [SPEAKER_07]: about how I was wording it

[00:58:26] [SPEAKER_07]: like oh so what is it

[00:58:28] [SPEAKER_07]: and one I got called up on the

[00:58:29] [SPEAKER_07]: carpet for

[00:58:30] [SPEAKER_07]: was a keg

[00:58:31] [SPEAKER_07]: a restaurant chain

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_07]: a keg commercial

[00:58:33] [SPEAKER_07]: I booked it

[00:58:34] [SPEAKER_07]: I did all my due diligence

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_07]: I knew this

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_07]: this is going to be fine

[00:58:37] [SPEAKER_07]: and it was a

[00:58:39] [SPEAKER_07]: it was a happy birthday

[00:58:40] [SPEAKER_07]: to the keg

[00:58:41] [SPEAKER_07]: it's an

[00:58:42] [SPEAKER_07]: and it's a restaurant

[00:58:43] [SPEAKER_07]: first of all

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_07]: restaurants don't have

[00:58:45] [SPEAKER_07]: birthdays

[00:58:45] [SPEAKER_07]: so who cares

[00:58:46] [SPEAKER_06]: and you got in trouble

[00:58:47] [SPEAKER_07]: oh yeah

[00:58:47] [SPEAKER_07]: oh yeah

[00:58:48] [SPEAKER_07]: yeah because people knew

[00:58:49] [SPEAKER_07]: what I did for a living

[00:58:50] [SPEAKER_07]: and

[00:58:50] [SPEAKER_07]: and I was recognizable

[00:58:52] [SPEAKER_07]: because I wasn't doing

[00:58:53] [SPEAKER_07]: characters right

[00:58:53] [SPEAKER_07]: that just sounded like me

[00:58:54] [SPEAKER_07]: doing a commercial

[00:58:55] [SPEAKER_07]: right

[00:58:55] [SPEAKER_07]: and they said

[00:58:56] [SPEAKER_07]: you know it's come to our

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_07]: attention

[00:58:58] [SPEAKER_07]: that there's a

[00:58:59] [SPEAKER_07]: commercial

[00:59:00] [SPEAKER_07]: and I went

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_07]: really

[00:59:02] [SPEAKER_07]: and then you try to apply

[00:59:03] [SPEAKER_07]: logic to these people

[00:59:05] [SPEAKER_07]: every year

[00:59:05] [SPEAKER_07]: there was a convention

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_07]: where there was

[00:59:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Bible dramas

[00:59:08] [SPEAKER_07]: right

[00:59:09] [SPEAKER_07]: and people would enact

[00:59:10] [SPEAKER_07]: a Bible

[00:59:11] [SPEAKER_07]: you know story

[00:59:13] [SPEAKER_07]: at our big conventions

[00:59:14] [SPEAKER_07]: and of course

[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_07]: in those

[00:59:16] [SPEAKER_07]: you can have a bad guy

[00:59:17] [SPEAKER_07]: oh big bad

[00:59:18] [SPEAKER_07]: you know

[00:59:19] [SPEAKER_07]: King Saul

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_07]: or whoever

[00:59:21] [SPEAKER_07]: whoever the bad dudes

[00:59:22] [SPEAKER_07]: were

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_07]: you know

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_07]: or the

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_07]: the Philistines

[00:59:25] [SPEAKER_07]: and all that stuff

[00:59:26] [SPEAKER_07]: oh yeah you can play

[00:59:27] [SPEAKER_07]: that part

[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_07]: because it's a part

[00:59:29] [SPEAKER_07]: in a Bible drama

[00:59:31] [SPEAKER_07]: and we've sanctioned it

[00:59:32] [SPEAKER_07]: but you can't act

[00:59:34] [SPEAKER_07]: as if you're

[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_07]: celebrating Christmas

[00:59:36] [SPEAKER_07]: or a bad guy

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_07]: no no no

[00:59:38] [SPEAKER_07]: no because the world

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_07]: is paying attention

[00:59:40] [SPEAKER_07]: to you and your voice

[00:59:41] [SPEAKER_07]: no they're not

[00:59:42] [SPEAKER_07]: I've never been

[00:59:43] [SPEAKER_07]: recognized ever

[00:59:44] [SPEAKER_07]: except in that little

[00:59:46] [SPEAKER_07]: SS community

[00:59:47] [SPEAKER_07]: you know where

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_07]: we're gonna

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_07]: we're gonna

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_07]: catch you

[00:59:50] [SPEAKER_07]: so anyway

[00:59:51] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know why

[00:59:52] [SPEAKER_07]: how did I get on that

[00:59:53] [SPEAKER_07]: told you

[00:59:54] [SPEAKER_07]: I warned you

[00:59:55] [SPEAKER_06]: kids

[00:59:55] [SPEAKER_06]: the commercial

[00:59:56] [SPEAKER_06]: was that the final out

[00:59:58] [SPEAKER_07]: no no no

[00:59:58] [SPEAKER_07]: so I had these kids

[00:59:59] [SPEAKER_07]: and I went

[01:00:00] [SPEAKER_07]: that was just an example

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_07]: of what I had to go through

[01:00:02] [SPEAKER_07]: yeah

[01:00:02] [SPEAKER_07]: you know

[01:00:03] [SPEAKER_07]: not to mention that

[01:00:04] [SPEAKER_07]: that this

[01:00:06] [SPEAKER_07]: JW world

[01:00:07] [SPEAKER_07]: sort of encourages

[01:00:09] [SPEAKER_07]: by default

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_07]: leading a double life

[01:00:11] [SPEAKER_07]: because

[01:00:12] [SPEAKER_07]: you know

[01:00:13] [SPEAKER_07]: if you don't want to get

[01:00:14] [SPEAKER_07]: literally tortured

[01:00:15] [SPEAKER_07]: at school

[01:00:16] [SPEAKER_07]: you kind of have to find

[01:00:18] [SPEAKER_07]: a balance there

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_07]: so you're not

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_07]: you know that kid

[01:00:21] [SPEAKER_07]: who's trying to convert

[01:00:21] [SPEAKER_07]: everyone

[01:00:22] [SPEAKER_07]: to your religion

[01:00:24] [SPEAKER_07]: so it encourages

[01:00:25] [SPEAKER_07]: this weird

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_07]: mindset

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_02]: us first them

[01:00:28] [SPEAKER_07]: yeah

[01:00:29] [SPEAKER_07]: yeah

[01:00:29] [SPEAKER_07]: it's us first them

[01:00:30] [SPEAKER_07]: but you know

[01:00:31] [SPEAKER_07]: you need to live in the world

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_07]: right people

[01:00:33] [SPEAKER_07]: still need jobs

[01:00:34] [SPEAKER_07]: and it's weird

[01:00:35] [SPEAKER_07]: it's like you're in this secret

[01:00:36] [SPEAKER_07]: right

[01:00:37] [SPEAKER_07]: so

[01:00:38] [SPEAKER_07]: I just didn't want to

[01:00:39] [SPEAKER_07]: inflict that on my kids

[01:00:40] [SPEAKER_07]: I wanted them

[01:00:41] [SPEAKER_07]: to be educated

[01:00:43] [SPEAKER_07]: I wanted them

[01:00:44] [SPEAKER_07]: to be free

[01:00:45] [SPEAKER_07]: to understand

[01:00:46] [SPEAKER_07]: and not go

[01:00:47] [SPEAKER_07]: oh

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_07]: what are they gonna

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_07]: think at the Kingdom Hall

[01:00:49] [SPEAKER_07]: if I do this

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_07]: like I didn't want that

[01:00:51] [SPEAKER_07]: so that was the

[01:00:52] [SPEAKER_07]: when the second kid

[01:00:54] [SPEAKER_07]: came around

[01:00:54] [SPEAKER_07]: that was what started

[01:00:56] [SPEAKER_07]: the

[01:00:56] [SPEAKER_07]: the problem

[01:00:57] [SPEAKER_07]: so here's the real wake up

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_07]: so I'm an elder

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_07]: in our congregation

[01:01:00] [SPEAKER_07]: and we've got a guy

[01:01:02] [SPEAKER_07]: that moves from another

[01:01:03] [SPEAKER_07]: congregation

[01:01:04] [SPEAKER_07]: and

[01:01:05] [SPEAKER_07]: what happens is

[01:01:06] [SPEAKER_07]: you get a letter

[01:01:06] [SPEAKER_07]: oh there's a new person

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_07]: coming in your hall

[01:01:08] [SPEAKER_07]: and here

[01:01:08] [SPEAKER_07]: and so the old congregation

[01:01:10] [SPEAKER_07]: says here's his records

[01:01:11] [SPEAKER_07]: you know because

[01:01:12] [SPEAKER_07]: you're supposed to

[01:01:12] [SPEAKER_07]: keep track of how much time

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_07]: you spend out

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_07]: in the proselytizing work

[01:01:16] [SPEAKER_07]: and here's some

[01:01:17] [SPEAKER_07]: stuff

[01:01:18] [SPEAKER_07]: about him

[01:01:18] [SPEAKER_07]: well

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_07]: turns out this guy

[01:01:20] [SPEAKER_07]: he's an older man

[01:01:21] [SPEAKER_07]: and he comes

[01:01:22] [SPEAKER_07]: in with his wife

[01:01:24] [SPEAKER_07]: and

[01:01:25] [SPEAKER_07]: he's the father

[01:01:26] [SPEAKER_07]: of his daughter's

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_07]: baby

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_07]: then

[01:01:29] [SPEAKER_07]: you read a little bit more

[01:01:31] [SPEAKER_07]: and like the guy's got

[01:01:31] [SPEAKER_07]: a problem with

[01:01:32] [SPEAKER_07]: kitties

[01:01:33] [SPEAKER_07]: right

[01:01:34] [SPEAKER_07]: now he's not always there

[01:01:36] [SPEAKER_07]: his long suffering

[01:01:37] [SPEAKER_07]: little

[01:01:38] [SPEAKER_07]: humble wife

[01:01:39] [SPEAKER_07]: who

[01:01:40] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm just gonna

[01:01:41] [SPEAKER_07]: call a spade a spade

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_07]: dumb as a brick

[01:01:43] [SPEAKER_07]: but also

[01:01:44] [SPEAKER_07]: also an enabler

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_07]: which really

[01:01:47] [SPEAKER_07]: pisses me off

[01:01:48] [SPEAKER_07]: because

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_07]: live with a guy and go

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_07]: I had no idea

[01:01:52] [SPEAKER_07]: you know

[01:01:53] [SPEAKER_07]: no

[01:01:53] [SPEAKER_07]: people that do this

[01:01:54] [SPEAKER_07]: within families

[01:01:55] [SPEAKER_07]: drive me

[01:01:56] [SPEAKER_07]: nuts

[01:01:57] [SPEAKER_07]: like

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_07]: oh no no no

[01:01:59] [SPEAKER_07]: that never happened

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_07]: you know the family

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_07]: secret stuff

[01:02:01] [SPEAKER_07]: and we're gonna rally

[01:02:02] [SPEAKER_07]: around dad

[01:02:03] [SPEAKER_07]: you know

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_07]: no

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_07]: no no no

[01:02:05] [SPEAKER_07]: so anyway

[01:02:06] [SPEAKER_07]: they're in our

[01:02:06] [SPEAKER_07]: congregation

[01:02:07] [SPEAKER_07]: and I'm going

[01:02:08] [SPEAKER_07]: well we gotta do something

[01:02:09] [SPEAKER_07]: about this

[01:02:09] [SPEAKER_07]: well you know

[01:02:10] [SPEAKER_07]: the book says

[01:02:11] [SPEAKER_07]: or handbook says

[01:02:12] [SPEAKER_07]: well you know

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_07]: until something

[01:02:14] [SPEAKER_07]: happens in our

[01:02:15] [SPEAKER_07]: congregation

[01:02:16] [SPEAKER_07]: we don't

[01:02:16] [SPEAKER_07]: you know

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_07]: that's not

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_07]: we're not supposed to

[01:02:18] [SPEAKER_07]: and so this is back

[01:02:19] [SPEAKER_07]: to your point about

[01:02:20] [SPEAKER_07]: safe haven

[01:02:21] [SPEAKER_07]: for pedophiles

[01:02:21] [SPEAKER_07]: it is

[01:02:22] [SPEAKER_07]: erroneous

[01:02:23] [SPEAKER_07]: and I want to make this

[01:02:24] [SPEAKER_07]: really clear

[01:02:25] [SPEAKER_07]: to think that

[01:02:26] [SPEAKER_07]: you know a congregation

[01:02:28] [SPEAKER_07]: is gonna go

[01:02:28] [SPEAKER_07]: hey if you're a

[01:02:29] [SPEAKER_07]: pedo

[01:02:30] [SPEAKER_07]: you're protected here

[01:02:32] [SPEAKER_07]: we're gonna look after you

[01:02:33] [SPEAKER_07]: but by the way

[01:02:34] [SPEAKER_07]: it's designed

[01:02:35] [SPEAKER_07]: the main concern

[01:02:36] [SPEAKER_07]: of Jehovah's Witnesses

[01:02:38] [SPEAKER_07]: is to not

[01:02:40] [SPEAKER_07]: besmirch

[01:02:41] [SPEAKER_07]: the bigger organization

[01:02:43] [SPEAKER_06]: right

[01:02:43] [SPEAKER_06]: it is bad for them

[01:02:44] [SPEAKER_06]: if you know

[01:02:45] [SPEAKER_06]: so unlike

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_06]: right

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_07]: and this is another thing

[01:02:47] [SPEAKER_07]: that we used to

[01:02:48] [SPEAKER_07]: you know

[01:02:49] [SPEAKER_07]: bang on about

[01:02:50] [SPEAKER_07]: oh the Catholics

[01:02:51] [SPEAKER_07]: the Catholics

[01:02:51] [SPEAKER_07]: the Catholics

[01:02:52] [SPEAKER_07]: they're full of pedophiles

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_07]: the priests

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_07]: or pedophiles

[01:02:55] [SPEAKER_07]: the priests

[01:02:56] [SPEAKER_07]: the priests

[01:02:56] [SPEAKER_07]: the priests

[01:02:57] [SPEAKER_07]: so in this sense

[01:02:58] [SPEAKER_07]: it's not the elders

[01:03:00] [SPEAKER_07]: who are pedophiles

[01:03:01] [SPEAKER_07]: it's not like the

[01:03:02] [SPEAKER_07]: organizing

[01:03:03] [SPEAKER_07]: like the

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_07]: the structure

[01:03:05] [SPEAKER_07]: but the structure

[01:03:06] [SPEAKER_07]: by virtue of

[01:03:07] [SPEAKER_07]: what's called

[01:03:08] [SPEAKER_07]: the two

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_07]: man

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_07]: rule

[01:03:11] [SPEAKER_07]: and I'll elaborate on that

[01:03:12] [SPEAKER_07]: yeah we saw that

[01:03:13] [SPEAKER_07]: means

[01:03:14] [SPEAKER_07]: that those pedophiles

[01:03:15] [SPEAKER_07]: are protected

[01:03:17] [SPEAKER_07]: they're shielded

[01:03:18] [SPEAKER_07]: so what happens is

[01:03:20] [SPEAKER_07]: unless you have

[01:03:21] [SPEAKER_07]: two witnesses

[01:03:22] [SPEAKER_07]: to an event

[01:03:23] [SPEAKER_07]: or a crime

[01:03:24] [SPEAKER_07]: well

[01:03:25] [SPEAKER_07]: we can't really prosecute

[01:03:26] [SPEAKER_07]: in our wisdom

[01:03:28] [SPEAKER_07]: of high school

[01:03:29] [SPEAKER_07]: educated elders

[01:03:30] [SPEAKER_06]: and what situation

[01:03:31] [SPEAKER_06]: is there

[01:03:31] [SPEAKER_06]: like child abuse

[01:03:32] [SPEAKER_06]: where two other people

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_06]: are watching

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_07]: exactly

[01:03:34] [SPEAKER_07]: it's never gonna happen

[01:03:35] [SPEAKER_06]: like it's just

[01:03:36] [SPEAKER_06]: it's obscene

[01:03:37] [SPEAKER_06]: it's never gonna happen

[01:03:37] [SPEAKER_06]: so that's how they're protected

[01:03:38] [SPEAKER_07]: so that's how they're protected

[01:03:40] [SPEAKER_07]: so this guy's in our

[01:03:41] [SPEAKER_07]: our congregation

[01:03:41] [SPEAKER_07]: and well we don't really

[01:03:43] [SPEAKER_07]: shouldn't probably

[01:03:44] [SPEAKER_07]: and I want

[01:03:44] [SPEAKER_07]: you know what

[01:03:45] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't care guys

[01:03:45] [SPEAKER_07]: we would then separate out

[01:03:47] [SPEAKER_07]: into book study groups

[01:03:48] [SPEAKER_07]: which take place

[01:03:48] [SPEAKER_07]: in individual homes

[01:03:50] [SPEAKER_07]: and you'd have

[01:03:51] [SPEAKER_07]: you know 10, 15 people

[01:03:52] [SPEAKER_07]: there was so many meetings

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_07]: you guys

[01:03:54] [SPEAKER_07]: we had

[01:03:55] [SPEAKER_07]: we would have one on Tuesday

[01:03:56] [SPEAKER_07]: we would have two

[01:03:57] [SPEAKER_07]: on Thursday

[01:03:58] [SPEAKER_07]: for two hours

[01:03:59] [SPEAKER_07]: we'd have

[01:04:00] [SPEAKER_07]: you know

[01:04:01] [SPEAKER_07]: going out in the

[01:04:02] [SPEAKER_07]: proselytizing work

[01:04:03] [SPEAKER_07]: and then you'd have

[01:04:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Sunday meetings

[01:04:04] [SPEAKER_07]: it was like

[01:04:05] [SPEAKER_07]: meeting

[01:04:05] [SPEAKER_07]: meeting

[01:04:06] [SPEAKER_06]: that was part of the strategy

[01:04:07] [SPEAKER_06]: keep you so busy

[01:04:08] [SPEAKER_06]: you're not thinking about

[01:04:08] [SPEAKER_06]: how crazy it all is

[01:04:09] [SPEAKER_07]: as it turns out

[01:04:10] [SPEAKER_07]: yes

[01:04:10] [SPEAKER_02]: well the problem

[01:04:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm hearing is

[01:04:13] [SPEAKER_02]: there's an incentive

[01:04:14] [SPEAKER_02]: to protect the image

[01:04:15] [SPEAKER_02]: of the church

[01:04:16] [SPEAKER_02]: as opposed to

[01:04:17] [SPEAKER_02]: evolving

[01:04:18] [SPEAKER_02]: and becoming

[01:04:19] [SPEAKER_02]: the principles

[01:04:20] [SPEAKER_02]: that you're boasting

[01:04:21] [SPEAKER_07]: absolutely

[01:04:22] [SPEAKER_02]: and there's no incentive

[01:04:23] [SPEAKER_02]: to do that

[01:04:24] [SPEAKER_02]: in fact it's

[01:04:25] [SPEAKER_02]: de-incentivized

[01:04:26] [SPEAKER_02]: to hold the church

[01:04:27] [SPEAKER_02]: accountable

[01:04:27] [SPEAKER_02]: to the principles

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_02]: that they're pretending

[01:04:29] [SPEAKER_02]: to uphold

[01:04:29] [SPEAKER_07]: well there was just a

[01:04:30] [SPEAKER_07]: court ruling in Illinois

[01:04:32] [SPEAKER_07]: where two elders

[01:04:33] [SPEAKER_07]: have been found guilty

[01:04:35] [SPEAKER_07]: of shielding

[01:04:36] [SPEAKER_07]: a pedophile

[01:04:37] [SPEAKER_07]: like not

[01:04:37] [SPEAKER_07]: reporting it to the police

[01:04:39] [SPEAKER_07]: and

[01:04:40] [SPEAKER_07]: now in

[01:04:40] [SPEAKER_07]: in our congregation

[01:04:41] [SPEAKER_07]: we didn't have an

[01:04:42] [SPEAKER_07]: instance of

[01:04:43] [SPEAKER_07]: this guy did something

[01:04:44] [SPEAKER_07]: here

[01:04:45] [SPEAKER_07]: so

[01:04:45] [SPEAKER_07]: so in that sense

[01:04:46] [SPEAKER_07]: no

[01:04:47] [SPEAKER_07]: we don't have anything

[01:04:48] [SPEAKER_07]: to act on

[01:04:49] [SPEAKER_07]: so my consciousness

[01:04:51] [SPEAKER_07]: is clear on that one

[01:04:52] [SPEAKER_02]: you also did something

[01:04:53] [SPEAKER_02]: about it

[01:04:54] [SPEAKER_02]: you acted

[01:04:54] [SPEAKER_07]: I did something about it

[01:04:55] [SPEAKER_07]: so I went to the

[01:04:56] [SPEAKER_07]: people who

[01:04:57] [SPEAKER_07]: had these

[01:04:58] [SPEAKER_07]: where he was attending

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_07]: a book study

[01:05:00] [SPEAKER_07]: and if they had kids

[01:05:02] [SPEAKER_07]: I said

[01:05:02] [SPEAKER_07]: just do not

[01:05:04] [SPEAKER_07]: leave them alone

[01:05:06] [SPEAKER_07]: with this guy

[01:05:07] [SPEAKER_07]: period

[01:05:07] [SPEAKER_07]: like just don't do it

[01:05:08] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not going to get

[01:05:09] [SPEAKER_07]: into the details

[01:05:10] [SPEAKER_07]: but

[01:05:10] [SPEAKER_07]: you can fill in the blanks

[01:05:12] [SPEAKER_07]: right

[01:05:12] [SPEAKER_07]: yes got it

[01:05:14] [SPEAKER_07]: so and tell your friends

[01:05:15] [SPEAKER_07]: that's

[01:05:16] [SPEAKER_07]: that was my role

[01:05:17] [SPEAKER_07]: I didn't care what

[01:05:17] [SPEAKER_07]: the official

[01:05:19] [SPEAKER_07]: way of dealing with it was

[01:05:20] [SPEAKER_07]: now

[01:05:21] [SPEAKER_07]: fast forward

[01:05:22] [SPEAKER_07]: this guy shows up

[01:05:23] [SPEAKER_07]: oh

[01:05:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Jesus

[01:05:24] [SPEAKER_07]: makes my

[01:05:24] [SPEAKER_07]: blood boil

[01:05:26] [SPEAKER_07]: he

[01:05:26] [SPEAKER_07]: rarely came to the meetings

[01:05:28] [SPEAKER_07]: but you know

[01:05:29] [SPEAKER_07]: his wife would

[01:05:29] [SPEAKER_07]: hobble in and hobble out

[01:05:31] [SPEAKER_07]: and he'd come and pick her up

[01:05:33] [SPEAKER_07]: so

[01:05:33] [SPEAKER_07]: the way our

[01:05:35] [SPEAKER_07]: kingdom hall was

[01:05:35] [SPEAKER_07]: situated

[01:05:36] [SPEAKER_07]: was in Fairview slopes

[01:05:37] [SPEAKER_07]: for those of you in Vancouver

[01:05:38] [SPEAKER_07]: and he comes driving up

[01:05:40] [SPEAKER_07]: to pick her up

[01:05:41] [SPEAKER_07]: and he stops in front

[01:05:42] [SPEAKER_07]: in a white van

[01:05:43] [SPEAKER_07]: I kid you not

[01:05:45] [SPEAKER_07]: it's just like the

[01:05:45] [SPEAKER_07]: you know

[01:05:46] [SPEAKER_07]: the stereotype

[01:05:47] [SPEAKER_06]: and the proverbial

[01:05:49] [SPEAKER_06]: white van

[01:05:49] [SPEAKER_07]: not only

[01:05:50] [SPEAKER_07]: is that white

[01:05:51] [SPEAKER_07]: he's got a fluffy

[01:05:52] [SPEAKER_07]: white puppy

[01:05:53] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh

[01:05:54] [SPEAKER_07]: exactly

[01:05:55] [SPEAKER_07]: and I saw him coming

[01:05:56] [SPEAKER_07]: and all the kids are playing

[01:05:57] [SPEAKER_07]: outside

[01:05:57] [SPEAKER_07]: and he pulls up

[01:05:59] [SPEAKER_07]: and he's

[01:05:59] [SPEAKER_07]: like oh I'm going to pick up

[01:06:00] [SPEAKER_07]: my wife

[01:06:01] [SPEAKER_07]: and I got this little puppy

[01:06:02] [SPEAKER_07]: and I

[01:06:02] [SPEAKER_07]: I was in the middle of a

[01:06:03] [SPEAKER_07]: conversation

[01:06:04] [SPEAKER_07]: I said excuse me

[01:06:05] [SPEAKER_07]: and I like literally

[01:06:06] [SPEAKER_07]: leapt over the fence

[01:06:07] [SPEAKER_07]: and got right

[01:06:08] [SPEAKER_07]: into his window

[01:06:09] [SPEAKER_07]: I said

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_07]: you go park

[01:06:11] [SPEAKER_07]: up the street

[01:06:11] [SPEAKER_07]: if I ever see you here

[01:06:13] [SPEAKER_07]: with a puppy

[01:06:13] [SPEAKER_07]: like you're going to have me

[01:06:15] [SPEAKER_07]: to deal with

[01:06:16] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't care what

[01:06:16] [SPEAKER_07]: anything else is

[01:06:17] [SPEAKER_07]: what is supposed to happen

[01:06:19] [SPEAKER_07]: there's going to be trouble

[01:06:20] [SPEAKER_07]: what do you mean

[01:06:21] [SPEAKER_07]: what do you mean

[01:06:22] [SPEAKER_07]: I said you know

[01:06:23] [SPEAKER_07]: exactly

[01:06:24] [SPEAKER_07]: what I mean

[01:06:25] [SPEAKER_07]: now get

[01:06:25] [SPEAKER_07]: good out of here

[01:06:27] [SPEAKER_07]: and that was a big deal

[01:06:29] [SPEAKER_07]: so this is the beginning

[01:06:30] [SPEAKER_07]: of me going

[01:06:31] [SPEAKER_07]: hold on

[01:06:32] [SPEAKER_07]: this system is

[01:06:33] [SPEAKER_07]: there's something up here

[01:06:35] [SPEAKER_07]: now

[01:06:36] [SPEAKER_07]: fast forward

[01:06:37] [SPEAKER_07]: this is the end of the

[01:06:38] [SPEAKER_07]: the story

[01:06:39] [SPEAKER_07]: it's a year

[01:06:40] [SPEAKER_07]: or so now my kids are little

[01:06:42] [SPEAKER_07]: it's probably

[01:06:44] [SPEAKER_07]: again

[01:06:44] [SPEAKER_07]: me and dates

[01:06:45] [SPEAKER_07]: you know

[01:06:46] [SPEAKER_07]: it was probably

[01:06:47] [SPEAKER_07]: 08

[01:06:47] [SPEAKER_07]: let's just call it

[01:06:48] [SPEAKER_07]: 08

[01:06:49] [SPEAKER_07]: so my son is

[01:06:51] [SPEAKER_07]: uh

[01:06:53] [SPEAKER_07]: nine

[01:06:53] [SPEAKER_07]: daughter is seven

[01:06:55] [SPEAKER_07]: somewhere in there

[01:06:56] [SPEAKER_07]: and these people have now

[01:06:57] [SPEAKER_07]: moved away

[01:06:57] [SPEAKER_07]: this couple

[01:06:58] [SPEAKER_07]: he's gone

[01:06:59] [SPEAKER_07]: he's out of our hair

[01:06:59] [SPEAKER_07]: but

[01:07:00] [SPEAKER_07]: now our elder body

[01:07:01] [SPEAKER_07]: knew all about him

[01:07:02] [SPEAKER_07]: we had the notes

[01:07:03] [SPEAKER_07]: we had the letters

[01:07:04] [SPEAKER_07]: we had all those

[01:07:05] [SPEAKER_07]: so they come back for a visit

[01:07:06] [SPEAKER_07]: and

[01:07:07] [SPEAKER_07]: on a Sunday

[01:07:08] [SPEAKER_07]: it consists of two things

[01:07:10] [SPEAKER_07]: one

[01:07:10] [SPEAKER_07]: is a

[01:07:11] [SPEAKER_07]: public talk

[01:07:12] [SPEAKER_07]: blah blah blah

[01:07:13] [SPEAKER_07]: blah blah blah

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_07]: the time is coming

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_07]: the time of the end

[01:07:15] [SPEAKER_07]: is going to be here

[01:07:16] [SPEAKER_07]: get in line

[01:07:17] [SPEAKER_07]: and be good Christians

[01:07:18] [SPEAKER_07]: okay so there's the public

[01:07:19] [SPEAKER_07]: talk

[01:07:20] [SPEAKER_07]: and then there was something

[01:07:20] [SPEAKER_07]: called a watch tower

[01:07:21] [SPEAKER_07]: study

[01:07:22] [SPEAKER_07]: and it was a magazine

[01:07:23] [SPEAKER_07]: the watch tower

[01:07:24] [SPEAKER_07]: that you see on the carts

[01:07:25] [SPEAKER_07]: and stuff

[01:07:26] [SPEAKER_07]: and

[01:07:26] [SPEAKER_07]: you would put up your hand

[01:07:28] [SPEAKER_07]: and comment

[01:07:29] [SPEAKER_07]: on

[01:07:29] [SPEAKER_07]: whatever the topic was

[01:07:31] [SPEAKER_07]: that we were studying

[01:07:32] [SPEAKER_07]: that week

[01:07:32] [SPEAKER_07]: so the guy who

[01:07:33] [SPEAKER_07]: is in charge

[01:07:34] [SPEAKER_07]: the conductor

[01:07:35] [SPEAKER_07]: of that meeting

[01:07:37] [SPEAKER_07]: is in charge of

[01:07:38] [SPEAKER_07]: like pointing into the audience

[01:07:39] [SPEAKER_07]: people put up their hands

[01:07:40] [SPEAKER_07]: and I got a comment

[01:07:41] [SPEAKER_07]: I got a comment

[01:07:41] [SPEAKER_07]: I got a comment

[01:07:42] [SPEAKER_07]: and you know

[01:07:43] [SPEAKER_07]: you get called on

[01:07:44] [SPEAKER_07]: you get a microphone

[01:07:44] [SPEAKER_07]: you go here's my answer

[01:07:46] [SPEAKER_07]: to that

[01:07:46] [SPEAKER_07]: blah blah blah blah

[01:07:47] [SPEAKER_07]: this guy

[01:07:48] [SPEAKER_07]: comes to visit

[01:07:49] [SPEAKER_07]: they've been out of our hall

[01:07:50] [SPEAKER_07]: for a while

[01:07:51] [SPEAKER_07]: him and his wife come for a visit

[01:07:52] [SPEAKER_07]: and they're sitting right up

[01:07:53] [SPEAKER_07]: near the front

[01:07:54] [SPEAKER_07]: and

[01:07:55] [SPEAKER_07]: he puts his hand up

[01:07:57] [SPEAKER_07]: thinking

[01:07:57] [SPEAKER_07]: okay

[01:07:58] [SPEAKER_07]: the guy who was conducting

[01:07:59] [SPEAKER_07]: the study goes

[01:08:00] [SPEAKER_07]: oh yes

[01:08:01] [SPEAKER_07]: brother

[01:08:02] [SPEAKER_07]: blank

[01:08:03] [SPEAKER_07]: and my wife

[01:08:04] [SPEAKER_07]: pops her head up

[01:08:05] [SPEAKER_07]: like a

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_07]: like a gopher out of a hole

[01:08:07] [SPEAKER_07]: and goes

[01:08:08] [SPEAKER_07]: what

[01:08:09] [SPEAKER_07]: he just referred to him

[01:08:11] [SPEAKER_07]: as brother

[01:08:12] [SPEAKER_07]: like

[01:08:12] [SPEAKER_07]: the person taking

[01:08:13] [SPEAKER_07]: the

[01:08:14] [SPEAKER_07]: conducting the

[01:08:15] [SPEAKER_07]: the study

[01:08:16] [SPEAKER_07]: has

[01:08:16] [SPEAKER_07]: full full full full

[01:08:18] [SPEAKER_07]: discretion about

[01:08:19] [SPEAKER_07]: who he calls on

[01:08:20] [SPEAKER_07]: and who he doesn't call on

[01:08:21] [SPEAKER_09]: him

[01:08:21] [SPEAKER_07]: so

[01:08:22] [SPEAKER_07]: you're gonna call on that guy

[01:08:23] [SPEAKER_07]: and you're gonna call him brother

[01:08:25] [SPEAKER_07]: because he was always kind of fringy anyway

[01:08:27] [SPEAKER_07]: right like

[01:08:27] [SPEAKER_07]: it's not

[01:08:28] [SPEAKER_07]: he's not

[01:08:29] [SPEAKER_07]: personally

[01:08:29] [SPEAKER_07]: you know if he's doing what he's doing

[01:08:32] [SPEAKER_07]: he's not a brother

[01:08:33] [SPEAKER_07]: and don't call on him

[01:08:34] [SPEAKER_07]: so my wife

[01:08:35] [SPEAKER_07]: literally

[01:08:38] [SPEAKER_07]: because we had kids

[01:08:39] [SPEAKER_07]: and she said

[01:08:40] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm going

[01:08:40] [SPEAKER_07]: and I went

[01:08:41] [SPEAKER_07]: now we had had

[01:08:42] [SPEAKER_07]: lots of conversations

[01:08:43] [SPEAKER_07]: so proud of her

[01:08:44] [SPEAKER_07]: because I

[01:08:45] [SPEAKER_07]: I was an elder

[01:08:46] [SPEAKER_07]: and I was

[01:08:47] [SPEAKER_07]: angst-ridden

[01:08:48] [SPEAKER_07]: because I'd go to these elder meetings

[01:08:49] [SPEAKER_07]: and I'd come home

[01:08:50] [SPEAKER_07]: and she'd have to listen to me

[01:08:52] [SPEAKER_07]: I would never

[01:08:52] [SPEAKER_07]: revealed what the meeting was about

[01:08:54] [SPEAKER_07]: but I would be like

[01:08:55] [SPEAKER_07]: just

[01:08:55] [SPEAKER_07]: oh

[01:08:56] [SPEAKER_07]: I can't stand this

[01:08:57] [SPEAKER_07]: like am I gonna

[01:08:58] [SPEAKER_07]: am I gonna do this

[01:08:59] [SPEAKER_07]: because there's this

[01:09:01] [SPEAKER_07]: tipping point right

[01:09:02] [SPEAKER_07]: and I'm sure you guys

[01:09:02] [SPEAKER_07]: went through it too where

[01:09:03] [SPEAKER_07]: for you go

[01:09:04] [SPEAKER_07]: if I'm in

[01:09:05] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm gonna be all in

[01:09:07] [SPEAKER_07]: and I'm gonna play the game

[01:09:08] [SPEAKER_07]: which is not my nature

[01:09:10] [SPEAKER_07]: like I really don't want to play

[01:09:11] [SPEAKER_07]: any game

[01:09:12] [SPEAKER_07]: at all

[01:09:12] [SPEAKER_07]: ever

[01:09:13] [SPEAKER_07]: but I was ready to do it

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_07]: because it's like

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_07]: your whole life

[01:09:16] [SPEAKER_07]: right

[01:09:17] [SPEAKER_07]: and I would be angst-ridden

[01:09:19] [SPEAKER_07]: and then

[01:09:19] [SPEAKER_07]: oh you'd sit in these

[01:09:21] [SPEAKER_07]: this is like another episode

[01:09:23] [SPEAKER_07]: the

[01:09:23] [SPEAKER_07]: the judicial meetings

[01:09:25] [SPEAKER_07]: the three guys

[01:09:26] [SPEAKER_07]: talking to some young person

[01:09:29] [SPEAKER_07]: usually a girl who goes

[01:09:31] [SPEAKER_07]: yeah so I had too much to drink

[01:09:32] [SPEAKER_07]: at this party

[01:09:33] [SPEAKER_07]: and I

[01:09:34] [SPEAKER_07]: committed fornication

[01:09:36] [SPEAKER_07]: and this happened

[01:09:36] [SPEAKER_07]: and then there's always some brother going

[01:09:38] [SPEAKER_07]: and where did he touch you

[01:09:39] [SPEAKER_07]: and one more time

[01:09:41] [SPEAKER_07]: did he was it over the clothes

[01:09:43] [SPEAKER_07]: or was it

[01:09:44] [SPEAKER_07]: did you feel this

[01:09:46] [SPEAKER_07]: did you feel that

[01:09:47] [SPEAKER_07]: were you aroused

[01:09:48] [SPEAKER_07]: and I'm going

[01:09:49] [SPEAKER_07]: oh my god

[01:09:51] [SPEAKER_07]: this is where I turn into a Catholic

[01:09:53] [SPEAKER_07]: it's enough that they're here

[01:09:56] [SPEAKER_07]: can we just tell them to say

[01:09:57] [SPEAKER_07]: four Hail Marys

[01:09:58] [SPEAKER_07]: and like don't do it again

[01:10:00] [SPEAKER_07]: no no no we need to get in there

[01:10:02] [SPEAKER_07]: and

[01:10:02] [SPEAKER_07]: ugh

[01:10:02] [SPEAKER_07]: so anyway

[01:10:03] [SPEAKER_07]: did you walk out with her

[01:10:04] [SPEAKER_07]: of course I did

[01:10:05] [SPEAKER_07]: of course I did

[01:10:06] [SPEAKER_07]: and there was there was several people

[01:10:07] [SPEAKER_07]: running to the door going

[01:10:08] [SPEAKER_07]: what what's going on

[01:10:10] [SPEAKER_07]: we

[01:10:10] [SPEAKER_07]: I said once again my famous line

[01:10:12] [SPEAKER_07]: you know exactly what's going on

[01:10:15] [SPEAKER_07]: and we left

[01:10:16] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm so proud of you guys

[01:10:17] [SPEAKER_07]: now according to my wife

[01:10:18] [SPEAKER_07]: she said we never went back

[01:10:20] [SPEAKER_07]: I think that was the beginning of the

[01:10:21] [SPEAKER_07]: fate

[01:10:22] [SPEAKER_07]: because the way

[01:10:23] [SPEAKER_07]: right

[01:10:23] [SPEAKER_07]: the way to exit

[01:10:25] [SPEAKER_07]: and this

[01:10:25] [SPEAKER_07]: this is gonna

[01:10:26] [SPEAKER_07]: this

[01:10:26] [SPEAKER_07]: podcast depending on where it goes

[01:10:28] [SPEAKER_07]: and who hears it

[01:10:29] [SPEAKER_07]: you know they may have a

[01:10:31] [SPEAKER_07]: a judicial meeting about

[01:10:33] [SPEAKER_07]: us all in

[01:10:34] [SPEAKER_07]: absentia

[01:10:35] [SPEAKER_07]: and we'll get officially

[01:10:37] [SPEAKER_06]: oh so you haven't been officially

[01:10:38] [SPEAKER_06]: disfellowshipped

[01:10:39] [SPEAKER_07]: we just wanted to

[01:10:40] [SPEAKER_07]: like

[01:10:40] [SPEAKER_07]: fade because my parents were still

[01:10:43] [SPEAKER_07]: involved like

[01:10:44] [SPEAKER_07]: we've had these

[01:10:45] [SPEAKER_07]: big family ties

[01:10:47] [SPEAKER_05]: it's complicated

[01:10:47] [SPEAKER_05]: it's really complicated

[01:10:49] [SPEAKER_07]: and this was before fading was

[01:10:51] [SPEAKER_07]: in but like this is a term now

[01:10:53] [SPEAKER_07]: like I

[01:10:53] [SPEAKER_07]: I thought I made it up

[01:10:55] [SPEAKER_07]: it didn't really exist

[01:10:56] [SPEAKER_06]: and also the term

[01:10:57] [SPEAKER_06]: pimo right

[01:10:58] [SPEAKER_06]: like physically

[01:10:58] [SPEAKER_06]: and but mentally out

[01:10:59] [SPEAKER_07]: for bringing that up

[01:11:00] [SPEAKER_07]: because I

[01:11:01] [SPEAKER_07]: asserted

[01:11:02] [SPEAKER_07]: four years

[01:11:03] [SPEAKER_07]: I said I think there's

[01:11:04] [SPEAKER_07]: 50%

[01:11:05] [SPEAKER_07]: because

[01:11:06] [SPEAKER_07]: most of the

[01:11:07] [SPEAKER_07]: people who

[01:11:08] [SPEAKER_07]: identify as Jehovah's Witnesses

[01:11:10] [SPEAKER_07]: are born in

[01:11:11] [SPEAKER_07]: they're just in

[01:11:12] [SPEAKER_06]: it's been

[01:11:13] [SPEAKER_06]: a long time since you started to fade

[01:11:15] [SPEAKER_06]: how do you feel about it now

[01:11:16] [SPEAKER_06]: and what would you say to

[01:11:18] [SPEAKER_06]: family or friends who might be listening

[01:11:21] [SPEAKER_06]: who are still in

[01:11:22] [SPEAKER_06]: and like what words of wisdom can you impart to them

[01:11:24] [SPEAKER_07]: oh

[01:11:25] [SPEAKER_07]: that's a great question

[01:11:27] [SPEAKER_07]: because

[01:11:27] [SPEAKER_07]: the minute you question

[01:11:29] [SPEAKER_07]: openly

[01:11:30] [SPEAKER_07]: any doctrine

[01:11:31] [SPEAKER_07]: you are

[01:11:32] [SPEAKER_07]: in apostate territory

[01:11:33] [SPEAKER_07]: and when you're in

[01:11:34] [SPEAKER_07]: apostate

[01:11:35] [SPEAKER_07]: you're out

[01:11:36] [SPEAKER_07]: like you will be disfellowship

[01:11:38] [SPEAKER_07]: so your whole world will

[01:11:40] [SPEAKER_07]: disappear

[01:11:40] [SPEAKER_07]: and apostate

[01:11:41] [SPEAKER_07]: who's disfellowship

[01:11:42] [SPEAKER_07]: has has less status than

[01:11:44] [SPEAKER_07]: someone who's committed murder

[01:11:46] [SPEAKER_07]: you know and is a family member who

[01:11:48] [SPEAKER_07]: well they they weren't

[01:11:49] [SPEAKER_07]: they weren't ever disfellowshipped

[01:11:51] [SPEAKER_07]: it's stuff happened

[01:11:52] [SPEAKER_07]: and they're in jail but you know

[01:11:54] [SPEAKER_07]: so my words of wisdom is

[01:11:57] [SPEAKER_07]: be brutally

[01:11:58] [SPEAKER_07]: brutally honest with yourself

[01:12:00] [SPEAKER_07]: you know do a cost

[01:12:01] [SPEAKER_07]: analysis

[01:12:02] [SPEAKER_07]: if

[01:12:03] [SPEAKER_07]: staying in

[01:12:04] [SPEAKER_07]: and being in

[01:12:05] [SPEAKER_07]: means that you're in constant conflict

[01:12:08] [SPEAKER_07]: that's not good for your health

[01:12:09] [SPEAKER_07]: that's not good for

[01:12:11] [SPEAKER_07]: anything

[01:12:12] [SPEAKER_07]: you are literally living a lie

[01:12:14] [SPEAKER_07]: I think it's

[01:12:15] [SPEAKER_07]: just the worst thing you can possibly do

[01:12:17] [SPEAKER_07]: so

[01:12:18] [SPEAKER_07]: you know now we've got so many resources

[01:12:20] [SPEAKER_07]: online

[01:12:21] [SPEAKER_07]: we've got a million people

[01:12:23] [SPEAKER_07]: that have blogs and

[01:12:24] [SPEAKER_07]: speaking out about it

[01:12:26] [SPEAKER_07]: post

[01:12:26] [SPEAKER_07]: YouTube videos

[01:12:27] [SPEAKER_07]: which just

[01:12:28] [SPEAKER_06]: yeah

[01:12:28] [SPEAKER_07]: you know

[01:12:29] [SPEAKER_07]: back in history

[01:12:30] [SPEAKER_07]: in the late 90s

[01:12:31] [SPEAKER_07]: I remember the J.W. is being

[01:12:34] [SPEAKER_07]: reeeally concerned

[01:12:35] [SPEAKER_07]: about the internet

[01:12:36] [SPEAKER_07]: and we know why

[01:12:38] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah well you really have to go out of the way

[01:12:40] [SPEAKER_02]: to put your head in the sand

[01:12:42] [SPEAKER_02]: to avoid hearing it

[01:12:43] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah

[01:12:44] [SPEAKER_06]: well actually I see people

[01:12:45] [SPEAKER_06]: quite often in Vancouver

[01:12:47] [SPEAKER_06]: selling the books

[01:12:48] [SPEAKER_06]: the Watchtower books

[01:12:49] [SPEAKER_06]: my impulse is to

[01:12:50] [SPEAKER_06]: go up and be like

[01:12:51] [SPEAKER_06]: do you know you're in a cult

[01:12:52] [SPEAKER_06]: and I know that won't help them at all

[01:12:54] [SPEAKER_06]: any suggestion of what to say

[01:12:56] [SPEAKER_06]: or what to ask

[01:12:57] [SPEAKER_06]: that could possibly plant a seed

[01:12:58] [SPEAKER_06]: of their

[01:12:59] [SPEAKER_06]: awakening

[01:12:59] [SPEAKER_07]: basically the question is

[01:13:01] [SPEAKER_07]: if someone told you

[01:13:02] [SPEAKER_07]: or provided evidence

[01:13:04] [SPEAKER_07]: that what you believed

[01:13:05] [SPEAKER_07]: was completely false

[01:13:07] [SPEAKER_07]: now let's take it into another

[01:13:08] [SPEAKER_07]: aspect of your life

[01:13:10] [SPEAKER_07]: maybe a job

[01:13:10] [SPEAKER_07]: and you find out

[01:13:12] [SPEAKER_07]: that the company that you're working for

[01:13:13] [SPEAKER_07]: is actually

[01:13:15] [SPEAKER_07]: a giant ring for

[01:13:18] [SPEAKER_07]: criminal activity

[01:13:19] [SPEAKER_07]: but you're

[01:13:20] [SPEAKER_07]: you're just a

[01:13:20] [SPEAKER_07]: guy who's

[01:13:21] [SPEAKER_07]: you know working at the

[01:13:22] [SPEAKER_07]: front desk or something

[01:13:24] [SPEAKER_07]: so someone provided you

[01:13:25] [SPEAKER_07]: with tangible evidence about that

[01:13:28] [SPEAKER_07]: you would probably act on that

[01:13:29] [SPEAKER_07]: and go oh I don't

[01:13:30] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't want to have anything to do with that

[01:13:32] [SPEAKER_07]: we've been lying to people forever

[01:13:33] [SPEAKER_07]: so if you're provided with tangible evidence

[01:13:35] [SPEAKER_07]: why would you

[01:13:36] [SPEAKER_07]: continue to believe

[01:13:38] [SPEAKER_07]: what you're supposed to believe

[01:13:40] [SPEAKER_07]: and I'll tell you

[01:13:41] [SPEAKER_07]: that family tie thing

[01:13:43] [SPEAKER_07]: is the kicker

[01:13:44] [SPEAKER_07]: it's so hard for most people

[01:13:46] [SPEAKER_07]: so hard

[01:13:47] [SPEAKER_07]: fortunately I hate my family

[01:13:49] [SPEAKER_07]: so no I'm kidding

[01:13:50] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm kidding

[01:13:51] [SPEAKER_07]: we had nothing to

[01:13:52] [SPEAKER_07]: we

[01:13:53] [SPEAKER_07]: we had lots to lose

[01:13:55] [SPEAKER_07]: lots and lots to lose

[01:13:56] [SPEAKER_06]: you know like I said at the beginning

[01:13:58] [SPEAKER_06]: us having this conversation

[01:13:59] [SPEAKER_06]: of you referring me to other JWs

[01:14:01] [SPEAKER_06]: that we could have with the podcast

[01:14:02] [SPEAKER_06]: and then eventually

[01:14:03] [SPEAKER_06]: coming full circle to you being a guest

[01:14:05] [SPEAKER_06]: and having this being your coming out party

[01:14:07] [SPEAKER_06]: like A means a lot to us

[01:14:08] [SPEAKER_06]: that you trust us with that

[01:14:09] [SPEAKER_06]: and that you feel comfortable now

[01:14:11] [SPEAKER_06]: to you know potentially

[01:14:13] [SPEAKER_06]: be permanently disfellowshipped

[01:14:14] [SPEAKER_06]: I appreciate your wisdom

[01:14:16] [SPEAKER_06]: and your perspective

[01:14:16] [SPEAKER_06]: the most important question is

[01:14:18] [SPEAKER_06]: what chaps your ass

[01:14:19] [SPEAKER_06]: the most

[01:14:20] [SPEAKER_06]: about the JWs

[01:14:21] [SPEAKER_07]: let's get down to it

[01:14:22] [SPEAKER_07]: that's a

[01:14:23] [SPEAKER_07]: okay that's a good one

[01:14:25] [SPEAKER_07]: what chaps my ass

[01:14:26] [SPEAKER_07]: is religion period

[01:14:27] [SPEAKER_07]: and that's an umbrella

[01:14:28] [SPEAKER_07]: that encompasses

[01:14:30] [SPEAKER_07]: all sorts of stuff

[01:14:32] [SPEAKER_07]: because at the heart

[01:14:33] [SPEAKER_07]: of every religion

[01:14:35] [SPEAKER_07]: is the seed of a guru

[01:14:37] [SPEAKER_07]: or a dude

[01:14:38] [SPEAKER_07]: or something

[01:14:40] [SPEAKER_07]: prove that I'm wrong

[01:14:42] [SPEAKER_07]: that these

[01:14:43] [SPEAKER_07]: these are cults

[01:14:44] [SPEAKER_07]: every single

[01:14:45] [SPEAKER_07]: now

[01:14:45] [SPEAKER_07]: lots of them have

[01:14:46] [SPEAKER_07]: have evolved

[01:14:47] [SPEAKER_07]: and they're nice and soft

[01:14:48] [SPEAKER_07]: and they're really fluid

[01:14:49] [SPEAKER_07]: and that's great

[01:14:51] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean if you just want to have happy times

[01:14:53] [SPEAKER_07]: and you know

[01:14:54] [SPEAKER_07]: hey there was a band

[01:14:55] [SPEAKER_07]: whoo

[01:14:57] [SPEAKER_07]: yeah Jesus is Lord

[01:14:58] [SPEAKER_07]: okay

[01:14:58] [SPEAKER_07]: fine

[01:14:59] [SPEAKER_07]: but

[01:15:00] [SPEAKER_07]: you know when you really start getting into doctrinal stuff

[01:15:02] [SPEAKER_07]: that chaps my ass

[01:15:04] [SPEAKER_06]: Ian it's been such a pleasure

[01:15:05] [SPEAKER_07]: anytime

[01:15:07] [SPEAKER_06]: imagine yourself

[01:15:08] [SPEAKER_06]: walking into a forest

[01:15:11] [SPEAKER_06]: you can see the path

[01:15:12] [SPEAKER_06]: and the trees

[01:15:14] [SPEAKER_06]: high above you

[01:15:15] [SPEAKER_06]: the air is crisp

[01:15:16] [SPEAKER_06]: you are walking towards your happy place

[01:15:19] [SPEAKER_06]: allegedly

[01:15:20] [SPEAKER_06]: allegedly

[01:15:21] [SPEAKER_06]: say it with me

[01:15:22] [SPEAKER_06]: anything said here

[01:15:23] [SPEAKER_06]: I'll miss podcast about alleged cults

[01:15:26] [SPEAKER_06]: alleged MLM schemes

[01:15:27] [SPEAKER_06]: alleged douchebaggery

[01:15:29] [SPEAKER_06]: mind fuckery

[01:15:30] [SPEAKER_06]: criminality

[01:15:31] [SPEAKER_06]: spiritual fraud

[01:15:32] [SPEAKER_06]: or the like

[01:15:33] [SPEAKER_06]: is offered purely

[01:15:34] [SPEAKER_06]: as commentary

[01:15:35] [SPEAKER_06]: because the views and opinions expressed

[01:15:38] [SPEAKER_06]: on a little bit culty

[01:15:39] [SPEAKER_06]: do not necessarily reflect

[01:15:41] [SPEAKER_06]: on official policy

[01:15:42] [SPEAKER_06]: or position of the podcast

[01:15:44] [SPEAKER_06]: and any content provided by our guests

[01:15:47] [SPEAKER_06]: bloggers

[01:15:48] [SPEAKER_06]: sponsors

[01:15:49] [SPEAKER_06]: or authors

[01:15:50] [SPEAKER_06]: are their opinion

[01:15:51] [SPEAKER_06]: and are not intended to malign

[01:15:53] [SPEAKER_06]: any religion

[01:15:54] [SPEAKER_06]: group

[01:15:54] [SPEAKER_06]: club

[01:15:55] [SPEAKER_06]: organization

[01:15:56] [SPEAKER_06]: business individual

[01:15:57] [SPEAKER_06]: anyone

[01:15:58] [SPEAKER_06]: or anything

[01:15:59] [SPEAKER_06]: so just let these words drift into your mind

[01:16:02] [SPEAKER_06]: without needing to focus on any of them

[01:16:04] [SPEAKER_06]: you are great

[01:16:05] [SPEAKER_06]: you are capable

[01:16:07] [SPEAKER_06]: you deserve to be happy

[01:16:09] [SPEAKER_06]: nobody's mad at you

[01:16:10] [SPEAKER_06]: unless you're actually

[01:16:12] [SPEAKER_06]: a narcissistic culty criminal

[01:16:14] [SPEAKER_06]: if that's you

[01:16:15] [SPEAKER_06]: cut that shit out

[01:16:17] [SPEAKER_06]: don't be a fuckwad

[01:16:18] [SPEAKER_06]: but if that's not you

[01:16:20] [SPEAKER_06]: again

[01:16:20] [SPEAKER_06]: you are great

[01:16:22] [SPEAKER_06]: you are capable

[01:16:23] [SPEAKER_06]: you deserve to be happy

[01:16:25] [SPEAKER_06]: a little bit culty loves you

[01:16:31] [SPEAKER_06]: the highlight of our Hawaii trip

[01:16:33] [SPEAKER_06]: is there was one day we couldn't find parking

[01:16:34] [SPEAKER_06]: for the only beach

[01:16:35] [SPEAKER_06]: that was easy for the kids

[01:16:37] [SPEAKER_06]: and my mom to access

[01:16:38] [SPEAKER_06]: it's called Baby Beach in Maui

[01:16:39] [SPEAKER_06]: it's fantastic

[01:16:40] [SPEAKER_06]: thanks for the recommendation Tasha and Derek

[01:16:42] [SPEAKER_06]: anyway

[01:16:43] [SPEAKER_06]: parking was crazy

[01:16:44] [SPEAKER_06]: and there was like this huge parking lot

[01:16:46] [SPEAKER_06]: in front of the joe was witness church

[01:16:48] [SPEAKER_06]: parking lot

[01:16:49] [SPEAKER_06]: and listen

[01:16:50] [SPEAKER_06]: I was determined to get the kids to the beach

[01:16:52] [SPEAKER_06]: it was one of those days

[01:16:53] [SPEAKER_06]: and I

[01:16:53] [SPEAKER_06]: we rolled in

[01:16:54] [SPEAKER_06]: and there was a lovely man

[01:16:55] [SPEAKER_06]: and I

[01:16:56] [SPEAKER_06]: I tried to remember this interview with Ian

[01:16:58] [SPEAKER_06]: and I said

[01:16:59] [SPEAKER_06]: hello brother

[01:17:00] oh my god

[01:17:01] [SPEAKER_06]: we're from the Vancouver chapter

[01:17:03] [SPEAKER_06]: is there any way we could park here

[01:17:04] [SPEAKER_06]: and he was like

[01:17:05] [SPEAKER_06]: oh you're from Vancouver

[01:17:06] [SPEAKER_06]: do you know so-and-so

[01:17:07] [SPEAKER_06]: and I was like

[01:17:08] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't

[01:17:09] [SPEAKER_06]: but I know Ian Corlett

[01:17:10] [SPEAKER_06]: did you know him

[01:17:12] [SPEAKER_02]: you called yourself sister Sarah too

[01:17:14] [SPEAKER_06]: sister Sarah

[01:17:14] [SPEAKER_06]: oh my god

[01:17:15] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm totally going to hell

[01:17:16] [SPEAKER_06]: wait

[01:17:16] [SPEAKER_06]: they don't believe in hell

[01:17:17] [SPEAKER_06]: anyway

[01:17:17] [SPEAKER_06]: for any JWs out there

[01:17:19] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm really sorry

[01:17:19] [SPEAKER_06]: that I used your parking

[01:17:20] [SPEAKER_06]: and pretended to be one

[01:17:21] [SPEAKER_06]: to get free parking for the beach

[01:17:23] [SPEAKER_06]: I felt like it was

[01:17:24] [SPEAKER_06]: it had to be done

[01:17:25] [SPEAKER_06]: and it was a good story for the podcast

[01:17:26] [SPEAKER_06]: and forgive me

[01:17:28] [SPEAKER_06]: for this sin

[01:17:28] [SPEAKER_02]: well the best part is

[01:17:30] [SPEAKER_02]: after he told us to go in the far end of the parking lot

[01:17:32] [SPEAKER_02]: which is closer to the beach

[01:17:33] [SPEAKER_02]: he starts walking back towards us

[01:17:35] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm like

[01:17:36] [SPEAKER_02]: oh shit

[01:17:37] [SPEAKER_06]: yeah we've been found out

[01:17:38] [SPEAKER_02]: here he comes

[01:17:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like Sarah

[01:17:39] [SPEAKER_02]: you're gonna have to step up

[01:17:40] [SPEAKER_02]: but he comes up to me

[01:17:41] [SPEAKER_02]: and I just point to Sarah

[01:17:42] [SPEAKER_09]: yeah

[01:17:43] [SPEAKER_02]: and he goes

[01:17:45] [SPEAKER_02]: 1914

[01:17:46] [SPEAKER_02]: is

[01:17:46] [SPEAKER_02]: the

[01:17:47] [SPEAKER_02]: code to the lock over there

[01:17:48] [SPEAKER_02]: in case

[01:17:49] [SPEAKER_02]: the door is locked

[01:17:50] [SPEAKER_02]: or the gates locked

[01:17:51] [SPEAKER_02]: and you guys need to get out

[01:17:52] [SPEAKER_02]: and he was really nice

[01:17:53] [SPEAKER_02]: and he was brother

[01:17:54] [SPEAKER_02]: what was his name

[01:17:55] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't remember his name

[01:17:56] [SPEAKER_06]: and I said thank you so much

[01:17:57] [SPEAKER_06]: and I said happy Easter

[01:17:58] [SPEAKER_06]: and then I realized I don't celebrate Easter

[01:18:00] [SPEAKER_06]: and then I was like just kidding

[01:18:01] [SPEAKER_06]: haha

[01:18:01] [SPEAKER_06]: Sarah was like shouting him

[01:18:03] [SPEAKER_02]: with the lojas and mahalos

[01:18:04] [SPEAKER_06]: and I was like mahalo happy

[01:18:06] [SPEAKER_06]: oh and I also said 1914

[01:18:07] [SPEAKER_06]: that's

[01:18:08] [SPEAKER_06]: that's an important year

[01:18:09] [SPEAKER_06]: I was trying to make it look like

[01:18:10] [SPEAKER_06]: I knew

[01:18:11] [SPEAKER_06]: what happened in 1914

[01:18:12] [SPEAKER_02]: and he just nodded

[01:18:13] [SPEAKER_02]: and was like

[01:18:14] [SPEAKER_02]: just go to the beach

[01:18:15] [SPEAKER_05]: yes

[01:18:16] [SPEAKER_05]: yes

[01:18:16] [SPEAKER_02]: peace out

[01:18:16] [SPEAKER_02]: okay I think

[01:18:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Jehovah

[01:18:18] [SPEAKER_02]: will forgive you for that sister Sarah

[01:18:20] [SPEAKER_02]: but I'm not sure

[01:18:21] [SPEAKER_02]: we can forgive

[01:18:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Jehovah

[01:18:23] [SPEAKER_02]: for this next bit of

[01:18:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Jehovah or Jehovah

[01:18:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Jehovah

[01:18:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Jehovah

[01:18:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Jehovah

[01:18:27] [SPEAKER_02]: here's my word salad

[01:18:29] [SPEAKER_02]: this is in response to the 144,000 people

[01:18:31] [SPEAKER_02]: that will be resurrected

[01:18:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Word salad

[01:18:35] [SPEAKER_02]: the Bible indicates that

[01:18:37] [SPEAKER_02]: 144,000 people

[01:18:38] [SPEAKER_02]: will be resurrected

[01:18:39] [SPEAKER_02]: to heavenly life

[01:18:40] [SPEAKER_02]: in the vision recorded

[01:18:42] [SPEAKER_02]: at Revelation 14

[01:18:44] [SPEAKER_02]: semicolon

[01:18:45] [SPEAKER_02]: 1-3

[01:18:46] [SPEAKER_02]: the apostle John

[01:18:47] [SPEAKER_02]: saw

[01:18:48] [SPEAKER_10]: quote

[01:18:48] [SPEAKER_10]: the lamb standing on Mount Zion

[01:18:50] [SPEAKER_10]: and with him

[01:18:51] [SPEAKER_10]: 144,000

[01:18:52] [SPEAKER_10]: in this vision

[01:18:53] [SPEAKER_10]: the quote

[01:18:53] [SPEAKER_10]: the lamb

[01:18:55] [SPEAKER_10]: represents the resurrected Jesus

[01:18:57] [SPEAKER_10]: John 129

[01:18:58] [SPEAKER_10]: Peter 119

[01:19:00] [SPEAKER_10]: Mount Zion

[01:19:00] [SPEAKER_10]: represents

[01:19:02] [SPEAKER_10]: the exalted position of Jesus

[01:19:03] [SPEAKER_10]: in the 144,000

[01:19:05] [SPEAKER_10]: who rule with him

[01:19:06] [SPEAKER_10]: in the heavens

[01:19:07] [SPEAKER_10]: Psalm 26

[01:19:08] [SPEAKER_10]: Hebrews 1222

[01:19:09] [SPEAKER_10]: those

[01:19:10] [SPEAKER_10]: quote

[01:19:10] [SPEAKER_10]: who are called

[01:19:11] [SPEAKER_10]: and chosen to rule with Christ

[01:19:13] [SPEAKER_10]: in the kingdom

[01:19:14] [SPEAKER_10]: are referred to as quote

[01:19:15] [SPEAKER_10]: little flock

[01:19:16] [SPEAKER_10]: Revelation 17

[01:19:17] [SPEAKER_10]: 4 Luke 12 32

[01:19:18] [SPEAKER_10]: this shows that they would be

[01:19:20] [SPEAKER_10]: relatively few

[01:19:21] [SPEAKER_10]: in comparison

[01:19:22] [SPEAKER_10]: with the complete number

[01:19:23] [SPEAKER_10]: of Jesus sheep

[01:19:24] [SPEAKER_10]: John 10 16

[01:19:25] [SPEAKER_10]: obviously

[01:19:26] [SPEAKER_10]: that's the interpretation

[01:19:28] [SPEAKER_10]: thank you

[01:19:29] [SPEAKER_10]: Jehovah

[01:19:30] [SPEAKER_10]: for that

[01:19:31] [SPEAKER_10]: confusing interpretation

[01:19:32] [SPEAKER_10]: of the scripture

[01:19:33] [SPEAKER_10]: and we'll end on that note

[01:19:34] [SPEAKER_10]: thank you everyone

[01:19:35] [SPEAKER_10]: for listening in

[01:19:37] [SPEAKER_10]: on the J-dub

[01:19:38] [SPEAKER_10]: until next time

[01:19:39] [SPEAKER_04]: and congratulations Ian

[01:19:40] [SPEAKER_04]: for just being

[01:19:41] [SPEAKER_04]: on the family die

[01:19:42] [SPEAKER_04]: thanks everyone

[01:19:43] [SPEAKER_04]: for listening

[01:19:43] [SPEAKER_04]: singing

[01:19:44] [SPEAKER_08]: down to the depths

[01:19:46] [SPEAKER_08]: of the ocean

[01:19:48] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm hanging on

[01:19:49] [SPEAKER_08]: to the wind

[01:19:51] [SPEAKER_08]: in my love

[01:19:53] [SPEAKER_08]: find that girl

[01:19:54] [SPEAKER_08]: all I could leave

[01:19:58] [SPEAKER_02]: let's keep the conversation going

[01:20:00] [SPEAKER_02]: we'll be back soon

[01:20:01] [SPEAKER_02]: with more episodes

[01:20:02] [SPEAKER_02]: of A Little Bit Culti

[01:20:04] [SPEAKER_02]: with more experts

[01:20:05] [SPEAKER_02]: and survivors

[01:20:05] [SPEAKER_02]: and sometimes

[01:20:06] [SPEAKER_02]: experts who are survivors

[01:20:08] [SPEAKER_02]: as well as some familiar faces

[01:20:09] [SPEAKER_02]: from the vow

[01:20:10] [SPEAKER_02]: from HBO

[01:20:11] [SPEAKER_02]: if you've got suggestions

[01:20:12] [SPEAKER_02]: or questions

[01:20:13] [SPEAKER_02]: on upcoming topics

[01:20:14] [SPEAKER_02]: find us on Instagram

[01:20:15] [SPEAKER_02]: at A Little Bit Culti

[01:20:17] [SPEAKER_06]: and for more background

[01:20:18] [SPEAKER_06]: on what brought me here

[01:20:19] [SPEAKER_06]: my memoir

[01:20:20] [SPEAKER_06]: Scarred

[01:20:21] [SPEAKER_06]: the true story

[01:20:21] [SPEAKER_06]: of how I escaped

[01:20:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Nexium

[01:20:23] [SPEAKER_06]: the cult

[01:20:23] [SPEAKER_06]: that bound my life

[01:20:24] [SPEAKER_06]: is available on Amazon

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[01:20:54] [SPEAKER_02]: just don't be

[01:20:55] [SPEAKER_02]: a little bit culty about it

[01:20:57] [SPEAKER_06]: A Little Bit Culti

[01:20:58] [SPEAKER_06]: is executive produced by me

[01:20:59] [SPEAKER_06]: your co-host

[01:21:00] [SPEAKER_06]: Sarah Edmondson

[01:21:01] [SPEAKER_06]: and Anthony Nippy Ames

[01:21:03] [SPEAKER_02]: that's me

[01:21:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Associate producer

[01:21:05] [SPEAKER_06]: is Jess Tardy

[01:21:06] [SPEAKER_06]: produced, edited

[01:21:07] [SPEAKER_06]: mixed and mastered

[01:21:08] [SPEAKER_06]: by citizens of sound

[01:21:10] [SPEAKER_06]: our amazing theme song

[01:21:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Cultivated is by John Bryant

[01:21:13] [SPEAKER_06]: and co-written by Nigel Asselin

[01:21:15] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm Sarah Edmondson

[01:21:16] [SPEAKER_06]: and thanks for listening to

[01:21:18] [SPEAKER_06]: A Little Bit Culti