Hello Cultiverse 10/27/22

[00:00:00] The views and opinions expressed by A Little Bit Culty are those of the hosts. And don't reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any of the quote fire content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors, or authors

[00:00:11] of the opinion and are not intended to malign a religion, a group, a club, an organization, business individual, anyone or anything unless Sarah. You're a douchebag. Yeah, we're not doctor, psychologist, therapist, licensed counselors or shamans. Even though you kind of think you are sometimes.

[00:00:27] I'm like an urban shaman. Okay. Good talk. Hey everybody, Sarah Edmondson here. And I'm Anthony Ames, aka Nippy, Sarah's husband and you're listening to A Little Bit Culty, aka ALBC, a podcast about what happens when devotion goes to the dark side. We've been there and back again.

[00:00:54] A little about us, true story. We met and fell in love in a cult. And then we woke up and got the hell out of dodge. And the whole thing was captured in HBO docu-series, The Vow now in its second season.

[00:01:07] I also wrote about our experience in my memoir, SCART, the true story of how I escaped Naxxiom, the cult that bound my life. Look at us. A couple of married podcasters who just happened to have a weekly date night

[00:01:18] where we interview experts and advocates and things like cult awareness and mind control. Oh, wait, wait, this does not count toward date night, babe. We got to schedule that that's separate. So it's two days we gotta hang out?

[00:01:29] We do this podcast thing because we learned a lot on our exit ramp out of Naxxiom, still on that journey. And we want to pay the lessons forward with the help of other cult survivors and whistleblowers. We know all too well that culty things happen.

[00:01:40] It happens to people every day across every walk of life. So join us each week to tackle these culty dynamics everywhere from online dating to mega churches and multi-level market. This stuff really is everywhere. The cultiverse just keeps on expanding and so are we.

[00:01:55] Welcome to season five of A Little Bit Cultie, serving cult content and word salads weekly on your favorite podcast platforms. Learn more at alittlebitculti.com. Hello, Cultiverse. Hello, Cultiverse. We are back. We are back. I can't even...

[00:02:28] I just had to make a list of all the things we need to cover right now because there's so much going on. I have some housekeeping for our fabulous community. We know. We know. I just did the dishes. Breaking news. Breaking news. That's housekeeping. Nipi, I think...

[00:02:46] You're welcome. I love that everyone's like, oh, I love your band or you guys will get along so great. We don't always get along so great. This has been a very stressful time. Your mom's in town. My mom's in town, which is great

[00:02:57] because she's been helping with some of the kid stuff and the bedtime routine. We just had a bomb-ass meal. She took us to an incredible restaurant. Rumi's... Oh, so good. Rumi. Oh, so good. Lamb ribs. Anyway, I was one of the things I'm really enjoying about Atlanta

[00:03:11] and people have been asking, like, how are you doing really? Like, how are you really doing? And I've been so go, go, go with all the things it takes to set up a life again, like getting into a bank account and starting a company

[00:03:22] and getting a text number for the company and leasing a car and all the things. It takes a lot of time. And then somewhere in there, I was like, I have no idea about so many things in Georgia. Like people are probably like,

[00:03:34] oh yeah, they went to tech or oh, they went to Florida State or they were like, I don't know what that means. I don't know if that means they're really smart. Those are colleges and universities. No, I know, but like, I don't...

[00:03:44] Not from here, but like, if someone says, oh, they went to Harvard or something, I'm like, okay, I have a sort of... Even though I didn't go to Harvard, I have a sense that what that means. I don't know anything about the schools around here.

[00:03:53] I don't know anything about the politics. I don't know anything about... That's probably better. It's probably better. And I'm just meeting people for who they are and if I like their energy or whatever. But I'm noticing that there's a real... I mean, I knew there was a division

[00:04:07] and we've talked about this on the podcast, but people are sessing out on where you stand on all these topics and trying to pigeonhole you. Like, are you left or are you right? Are you pro this or anti this? And I'm just... I just feel a little comfortable.

[00:04:21] That's indicative of the times that we're in. It is indicative of the times, but also I'm wondering if it's Georgia as well or Atlanta. I don't know. I don't... I can't say yet. I can't say. No, it's America right now. It's America right now.

[00:04:35] That's why you have people leaving certain cities. They're calling... I mean, they're calling it red and blue right now. And even if you... Like we've experienced it. Like if you... We try to remain purple, right? We try to show people processes not...

[00:04:49] And we've been called Lib Tards and Trumpers. After the same podcast. Yeah, I posted like three things on Twitter that someone called anti-woke. And yes, I am anti-woke, which means I'm anti-extreme left the same way I'm anti-extreme right. We're anti-extreme. But they won't accept it.

[00:05:06] Like if someone is in one of those camps because it's become so binary, they don't allow you to have a stance that looks at, hey, the right has some good ideas and the left has some good ideas

[00:05:17] and we can meet in the middle and have a discussion there. A lot of people, and we talked about this when you got home last night, don't want to get in a position where they say something and they get persecuted for not having the correct belief system

[00:05:28] by the person who's deemed themselves the authority on what's okay to think and say. And that is what our podcast is about. A little bit culty. And when you get that way, it's a little bit culty. That's kind of the gist of why we have a podcast, right?

[00:05:42] Yes. Which might be a good segue... Into which of our many other things. Into things on our housekeeping. Oh well, I mean, I want to get into the Eckhart wrap up, but before I do, in our time, like in the reality of our timeline,

[00:05:58] the vow episode one's just dropped. And this morning we recorded a very fun, casual, meaningful, emotional conversation with Mark Vicente about what he thought and what we thought and we just rift. That's going to be over on Patreon.

[00:06:13] But I will tell you guys, generally we're happy with episode one. We're not in it as much as you probably know if you've been watching the vow and that's totally fine. We've barely keeping our head above water with all these other things,

[00:06:25] with moving and podcasts and just life. But it was just shocking to see some of the footage that the filmmakers were able to get, don't you think, Nat? Yeah, the emergency meeting. The emergency meeting and the fact that they were able to...

[00:06:38] I mean, this is what I talked about in one of the last episodes is just like I've been wanting to see the behind the scenes that we missed and fill in the gaps and I'm getting that. I think we're going to get more of that too.

[00:06:47] I think we're going to get more of that. But you know what I really appreciate about this non-culty community is just how many people... It's kind of like that feeling when it's your birthday and your Facebook is blowing up and people even haven't heard from in years.

[00:07:03] Like old roommates shout out to Alexa Abiskott in Montreal, who lives in Toronto who's like, I'm watching the vow. Like I'm totally not in touch with her regularly, but these people in my life from the last 45 years are watching the trauma and now the trial unfolds.

[00:07:19] And how does that feel for you? Which part? People reaching out? Yeah. I think it's more for you and Mark than it is for me. I don't have a whole lot of it. How do you feel about our new friends?

[00:07:28] One of our football friends will keep their identity private. Just started watching the vow and she messaged me last night wondering if Nippy also participated in the lip kissing. That was funny. That was a funny text. Oh, I saw her tonight by the way. I saw her.

[00:07:44] I was like, I loved you guys to exchange last night. She's like, I'm just keeping it real. She's so funny. That was funny. She's hilarious. She's like, y'all do all that lip kissing? And I'm like Nippy would never, he's just not that kind of guy.

[00:07:57] But I mean, I kissed a fair number of people on the lips. There's people that were kind of older and maybe gross to me for various reasons that I like, turn my cheek and would do like a cheek kiss. But the lip kissing is not something we've ever

[00:08:11] talked about in the podcast, but I will tell you it certainly became normalized. It was definitely weird at the beginning. And then it was just like any gaslighting nexium flip. Like if you said something, like it's kind of weird, like what's up with this?

[00:08:26] It would be like, well, you know, it's just a more intimate way of greeting, which is true. It was sort of flip back on you that it was your own issues with like being intimate or like humanitarian or something. More in the wind.

[00:08:39] But like, I still have some close girlfriends that I kiss on the lips, like as a greeting. Not as a French kiss, but like as a, you know. Yeah, I don't have any guys I kiss as a greeting. I know, it's different.

[00:08:53] But anyway, so it was like that, but like just more of it. And it still grosses me out that I did kiss Keith on the lips. The valor after marriage in general though has been pretty positive. Yeah, no very, very positive.

[00:09:05] And I appreciate everybody checking on me or us, but I will say that I'm doing okay. I think they think it's going to be retraumatizing in certain ways. And I thought maybe that it was, but it really wasn't because we're hardly in it.

[00:09:19] And I feel like I'm finding out what went on while we were going through our leaving. So I kind of feel like we're just going with knowing that we're okay in the end. So I have the end result and I'm just kind of going, getting optics.

[00:09:33] Yeah, I think if anything, it's not so much retraumatizing, it's just exhausting. Like it's exhausting trying to field the responses and everybody wants to talk about it and listen, what else? There's nothing else more interesting in my life.

[00:09:46] You don't have two kids that are more interesting than the others? Obviously the kids are very important. I was about to say other than like, Ace is learning about apples and like obviously we're very involved in the kids life.

[00:09:59] Oh, this is the other thing I was thinking about. Like this has been a bit of a strange thing for me coming to Atlanta and meeting new people. Like because we're public about it, we can't really start fresh entirely

[00:10:09] and just be like, yeah, I'm an actor and I do voiceover. And I'm like, yeah, we have a podcast and then it's like inevitably what's it about and like what's about calls? Oh, that's interesting. And then like if you don't kind of get it out

[00:10:20] at the beginning and which has happened a couple of times and it comes out later, it feels even weirder. So I find that I have to like, not that I lead with it, but I just get it out on the table like throwing spaghetti at a wall

[00:10:30] and seeing what sticks and like the people who can handle it, you know, I can roll with and the people who can handle it are too weirded out by it probably aren't going to be a fit because it's a big part of our lives.

[00:10:40] So many people weirded out by it. It's either interesting to them or like, oh, congratulations or whatever. Yeah. They can Google you. Yeah, that's true. I just, I'm glad that the vow exists because I feel like it's so much more than just the headlines. So it's a relief.

[00:10:55] Yeah, all right. All right. Any other housekeeping? Yeah. Well, and you know, in addition to managing episode one of season two, we're also dealing with the aftermath of our episode of the Eckhart Tolle, which if you haven't heard us over on Patreon unpacking it,

[00:11:10] I think that a lot of people's concerns, and let me just first say it was a really mixed bag of like, wow, that episode was so helpful for me in deconstructing what happened in my spiritual cult. Yeah, which I think is valuable. Which I think is valuable.

[00:11:25] And then on the other side, people being like, no way. I'm not interested. This is no longer, some people even unfollowing us saying it's no longer a safe space for me, which of course I was sad about and also wish I'd done more of a disclaimer

[00:11:40] because I get it. A lot of what, not a lot of it, but some of the key concepts of what Eckhart teaches is in the same umbrella of what we learned in Nexium. So when I went back to any sort of spiritual stuff,

[00:11:50] I was completely allergic to it and couldn't even, it just was a trigger. Look, the constructive criticism, most of it I actually agree with. The ad hominid attacks on us creating a platform for Eckhart and saying we're giving him adherence and stuff like that is just not true.

[00:12:04] Totally. I think we were pretty clear that we were at no point we're like, this is who we're following now. You should follow him too. A lot of the criticisms I actually was having thought similar to during the interview and afterwards. Yeah, specifically that we didn't challenge him.

[00:12:19] Most of them are pretty fair. I mean. Yeah, specifically like people were, well, we're going to play you some voicemails. That sort of show the range. But I think just to like reconfirm some things by no means are we saying here's who you should follow.

[00:12:34] This is somebody who's been helpful from, yeah, but just I want to say it again. And also for me, somebody that I found helpful in my healing in learning about what happens in a cult. I will never ever again follow anybody.

[00:12:48] Like listen, if I decide to go work for Eckhart and join his inner circle or something, then someone have an intervention and was putting it out there right now. That's not my plan. Yeah, you're going to be alone in that journey.

[00:12:58] So we've said this before on the podcast that people have said and we say, it's one thing to take tools and put them in your life versus making the tools your life. And that's a distinction of when it goes from being helpful to culty, one of the distinctions.

[00:13:12] So I hope that that's clear. And also want to say like if somebody says to you, a lot of people said, oh, it's two words, Salady for me. Two things. One is if something doesn't sit right with you, don't listen to it.

[00:13:24] And that's the whole point of our podcast. If somebody has a gut instinct that they don't like it, we're not going to be like, well, you're just not ready for it. But that being said, just because I heard, I saw some people on our Instagram saying,

[00:13:38] well, just because you don't understand it doesn't make it word salad. If it's word salad to you, then just move on. Find something that resonates with you. There's a guy that I'm coaching with right now and he knew who Eckhart.

[00:13:49] So I found a lot of people didn't know Eckhart totally was, but he did. He said he read the power of now. He's like, yeah, I had made sense of some of it and some of I didn't. And I think that's kind of if you subscribe

[00:13:59] to a spiritual realm or whatever and you're not throwing the baby out with a bathwater, which I think is what the episode was kind of touching on. There has to be room for some sort of spirituality. You have a lot of plausible deniability

[00:14:10] because it's very kind of nebulous. Like you can say something and it won't make sense to you, but it might make sense to me because I made sense of it on my own. Now was that the person's intent when they were saying it?

[00:14:22] That's the nature of word salad. It gets you to think a little bit, but not necessarily intentionally. Like if I'm getting you to think about, say, mathematics, there's a pretty tangible process of measuring whether you understood what I said because I can test you on it.

[00:14:36] The spiritual realm doesn't really have that. In fact, it has words and the words are often something you have to go make sense of and then move on from that. And to suggest that if you make sense of it,

[00:14:46] you understood it to its entirety, I think would be arrogant. And to say that if you didn't understand it at all, that it's your problem is arrogant as well. So there's a lot of ways to be spiritual and putting language to it's always going to be

[00:15:00] probably problematic for a lot of people. And also spirituality is kind of like people's relationship with God too. It's personal. Yeah, I think overall I was a little shocked by how I felt some people were so up in arms, really happy that it was helpful for others.

[00:15:15] I was too, but then it kind of makes sense because if you've been burned by it and then we have a place that professes to call it out and you turn it on and you go, this is the kind of shit I was burned by.

[00:15:27] And it looks like we're championing something that like, you know, I mean, I can make allowance for their criticisms. I don't have a problem with it. Yes, I guess that's the only place where I felt a little bit like, oh shit, we should have reiterated.

[00:15:38] This might be triggering for those who recovered from any sort of spiritual. But we had a mixed response. A lot of people were able to get, throw out some value out of it. So speaking of which, we have some, we just wanted to show some of the,

[00:15:52] some of the variety. It's going to be a videotape. Videotape, here we go. This is the golden age of cult recovery. The more we speak up and share our stories, the more we realize we are not alone. Your voice and your story can empower others.

[00:16:08] This is Sarah and I'm proud to be a founding collaborator of the hashtag I got out movement. Learn more at I got out.org. Hey, Sarah. Hey, Nippy. It's Kevin up in Vancouver. Canada misses you by the way, but glad you guys are settling in.

[00:16:36] Just wanted to say I love ALBC and been a watcher of the Vow and the listener of the podcast from the beginning. And glad you guys are healing and giving back through your experiences. Just wanted to comment quickly about the Eckhart Tolle two-parter.

[00:16:59] As an intellectual and spiritual exercise, it was fascinating and really educational and interesting to listen to. And just under the ALBC banner, I thought it was a little bit of a missed opportunity to challenge him more. And how often do you have the spiritual leader

[00:17:24] come on to your podcast? I mean, the bad ones, of course, they're never going to come on. So to have possibly a good one or one that's at least approachable and interesting, it's good to ask the questions that like to challenge that person with the questions

[00:17:41] that you would have probably wanted to ask Keith or any of the other ones that have turned out to be negative or narcissistic. So I thought it was a bit egoic to kind of just let him go on about his beliefs and what he believes in and whatnot.

[00:18:05] And I know, Sarah, at one point, you I think you mentioned about how it was a little bit dangerous to kind of excuse experience as just part of consciousness. I think that was kind of the gist of it because he was saying, you know, without,

[00:18:20] you know, this is our real bodies and our real lives are kind of just a shell for consciousness. So whatever happens to you doesn't really matter because consciousness remains. And I think you challenged him a little bit on that. And I thought that was really a good opportunity

[00:18:35] and it would have been great to have that throughout in a respectful and assertive way. And I think that he would have handled it very well and probably explained it from his position. So again, it was wonderful to listen to.

[00:18:52] It was great good content, but as a little bit culty, I thought it was a great chance to really pin down the pitfalls of what it could be to be a spiritual leader and how he would distinguish himself from others or to prevent himself from becoming that.

[00:19:13] And that would have been, I think, good content for the viewers because that's kind of why we come to your podcast. So again, good luck and keep things rolling and we can't wait to hear things in the future. Okay, great. So that was, I forgot to mention,

[00:19:30] that was Kevin Anderson. By the way, that is a very responsible, fair and critical assessment, I think. Yeah. I feel criticized and supported in the same... Well, that's the epitome of constructive criticism. We love that. And just like we learned in Nexium, all feedbacks valid.

[00:19:51] Yeah, I think the feedback is pretty good. I also feel like there were some impulses there. And I think I said this in one of our previous or I responded to one of our Patreon responses is, he had an inertia, Eckhart did,

[00:20:02] an inertia of talking that I didn't feel like there were natural pauses to ask questions. And when I had impulses to ask questions, didn't feel like there was a flow and it felt like he was in his own kind of... And I didn't feel like interrupting.

[00:20:16] Yeah, I remember that too. And I did. And I felt like, okay, well, it looks like he's gonna talk and then maybe we'll discuss something later. And then there was a moment where he said that moment about if you don't understand it, it's word salad.

[00:20:28] And I was like, I felt deferential. There was something that said, we did, I did feel a little deferential and I didn't feel, I felt like if I had to challenge him, it was like gonna be a gotcha moment.

[00:20:38] And I didn't wanna turn that into a gotcha thing. And I kind of felt like our podcast was his platform, but I also didn't feel like that was necessarily a bad thing at the time. And I didn't feel like he was under the spotlight

[00:20:51] or under the gun, but I do feel like there are some aspects of it that we could have challenged, at least in hindsight and listening to the episodes a couple of times, I should have asked this, I should have asked that.

[00:21:00] So part of learning and doing a podcast, just because they're nice and have esteem doesn't mean you and I can't go in and kick the tires a little more. I definitely wish we had, I definitely remember watching him

[00:21:14] and being like, you know, you're about to take a breath but there's no pause that for sure happened. I had it, I should be asking a question here, don't I? I had that moment. Yeah, well normally we had a whole bunch of questions,

[00:21:25] but I feel like we did cover what we were hoping to in terms of his perspective on- Just not thoroughly, I feel like 75, 80%. I don't think he does a lot of interviews like this, it's more that he goes and speaks. So I think that- Yes.

[00:21:39] That was just him going and speaking, not like having a dialogue. I watched an interview that he did with a guy named Dave Rubin and it was very similar. Even the chronology of his story on Dave Rubins was akin to ours.

[00:21:53] So I think he has this kind of- He has a sound bite. I think the conversations that I saw on Instagram on our Discord and our Patreon, there's so many places to talk now. The conversations I have were generally respectful.

[00:22:06] I was sad when I saw people go like, sorry no and I have to unsubscribe, which I feel is a little bit- Just skip it, you can listen to the next one if it doesn't resonate. By no means we've ever said-

[00:22:17] 65 out of 66 podcasts were good and one wasn't. We got killed on some reviews too. It's like come on people. Yeah, that is actually a request. No, but after 1000. If you liked it, please do write us a good review

[00:22:30] and then maybe we'll read it on the next Hello Cultiverse. Okay, here's another message from Demetria just to give a flip side to that one. This literally came in like right after Kevin's. Demetria, here we go. Hello, I just want to say thank you so much

[00:22:46] for your podcast and for having Eckhart Tolle. I left a cult last year after being there for four years and I've listened to almost every one of your episodes. I think that both of you are absolutely very, very important voices right now in this world

[00:23:08] and really being able to discern what is true and what is false. Eckhart Tolle changed my life back in 2008 and I really believe that it was his teachings that provided the foundation for me to leave the cult after four years because it became clear

[00:23:27] like this is just really not, it's just not passing the truth test. So the fact that you have him on right now it just really feels like a coming full circle and I just want to express my deep appreciation for all that the both of you are doing.

[00:23:49] So thank you and please keep it up. Thank you. There you go. Yep, same person, different response. And that's why it's so great to have subjective experience in this world and there's no one thing for everybody which I think is kind of the point. Am I right Nipi?

[00:24:09] Yeah, if she's able to hear him and he inspires a spiritual kind of response in her is that bad? I mean I guess those are the questions that you have asked now. Similarly, obviously Keith was abusing his power and he was giving people sound bites to think about

[00:24:25] that they were connecting on their own in the hopes of gaining power over them. Now was Eckhart doing that? Is he the same? Not from where I'm sitting but... Yeah, I don't see it but like look he's got a huge organization.

[00:24:36] One of the things I have to say a little tangent that I do have a bone to pick about when people say well he's making money that in and of itself isn't a problem. If it's if you're making money based on a little con

[00:24:46] and that's where I think you have to be specific because I think he's not saying I came up with all this. He even said like I'm just the window for this truth that I've connected to. Some people might say that's fo humble. My gut instinct says it's not.

[00:25:02] Somebody would say well your gut instinct was wrong before so we can't trust you. Which makes me go back to I'm not telling you to follow him. Read it if you like to. If you don't read something else. But also people are at different stages in healing

[00:25:14] and I think if I picked up the power of now when I first got out of Nexium or heard that podcast maybe I would have been like nope as well. But for me right now it was really helpful specifically in understanding the collective ego concept

[00:25:27] and like the toxicity of the group, the ego of the group and like the tapping into like the specialness and especially to relate it to what we're watching now with the people who are still defending Keith. We don't have to mention names but I see that process.

[00:25:43] Like it's very clear that there's a special miss and ego to being like we are the last one standing we are the only ones with character and we're not going to buy into the media or whatever. Like there's an ego to that that's really toxic.

[00:25:58] So it's helpful for me that's all. Yeah, he hit some points for me as well. Okay, we have one more message maybe we'll do two more let's see what conversation this yields but this is from Blanka and I'm excited about this because there's multiple points to it.

[00:26:10] There's a word salad in it that's really good and reminded us that we haven't been doing any of this season I just don't know what happened. We're gonna get back to it I promise right now. We do have a five minute episode that I have. Oh yes.

[00:26:24] Oh my goodness there's going to be a very special thing dropping on Patreon if this isn't a way to lure you over to the cult of Patreon. I don't know what is but listen I couldn't have even had Patreon when we first started because selling stuff

[00:26:39] was so challenging for me after next year but I'm gonna sell you on this because Nipi's got an impersonation of Keith Reneary that he did at one of the last festival of flowers performances for Nancy Salisman and it is so good

[00:26:52] he can't pump his own tires but I will pump his tires. I think this was a major red flag for Keith because Nipi Nails has mannerisms his intonations and his storytelling and it's you're not going to be able to see

[00:27:04] or we're going to be able to show the actual video on Patreon. I was Oscar nominated in 2016 Oscar shoes. Yeah Nipi was nominated for an Oscar. Yeah I didn't win. Our world. So check that out. Okay here's a very long message from Blanca.

[00:27:19] Hi Sarah and Nipi my name is Blanca and I am a huge fan of your podcast. I found your podcast after watching season one of The Vow which was absolutely fascinating. Watched the first episode of season two not as riveting not enough Nipi and Sarah

[00:27:37] and I say that facetiously but not really because you guys are really charismatic and so with that element missing it's just not the same so kudos to you. But I wanted to say thank you for having this podcast I think it's really important work

[00:27:51] and it constantly reminds me of what I really discovered in watching The Vow and that is that we are all very very vulnerable to those sorts of manipulations and coercion that these charismatic leaders employ to amass power and wealth.

[00:28:13] I am a Buddhist but I like to think that I'm open to new ideas and new ways of thinking and I can very much see how in your situation I would have done the same thing or even as myself given the right time

[00:28:30] circumstance I would have absolutely signed up and been as committed as you were. So listening to your story is fascinating and also kind of scary in that sense. Listening to your podcast feels a little bit like inoculation against those like mind viruses

[00:28:49] that Eckhart Tolle or whatever his name is talked about and speaking of which I wanted to thank you for having him on your show because even though it wasn't like your normal give-and-take sort of interview that you guys have I found his talk completely illuminating.

[00:29:09] Like I said I'm a Buddhist and so I believe that there is no self the ego is an obstruction on the path to enlightenment but those are concepts that I understand conceptually and intellectually and they're very very hard to apply in terms of your day-to-day life

[00:29:27] they're very hard to know experientially and what Eckhart did is he explained it in such a way that I was able to almost instantly understand and feel what those words meant and I know he's not a Buddhist at least I don't think he is a Buddhist

[00:29:46] I don't believe he applies any sort of labels which makes complete sense since he would I assume say that it's akin to an identity but but I still found his words and his thoughts to be

[00:30:06] absolutely amazing and I want to thank you for not throwing the baby out with the bath water when it comes to spiritual teachings and spiritual concepts and thinking because there is a lot of good that can be accomplished by tending to your spiritual self

[00:30:25] I also wanted to contribute my own word salad because that's my favorite part of your podcast I'm not going to be as good as Nippy is but I'm going to give it my all and I think I've heard enough of Keith Reneary's ramblings

[00:30:47] where I can probably simulate it it's not going to be that hard the man is a self-parody it's like an AI bot got programmed with new age jargon and then spits it out so that's what I'm going to try to channel okay here I go

[00:31:06] okay now imagine if you will you as a small child now when you're a small child you'd like to play and play and play and satiate and satiate and comfort and comfort and comfort and now what if imagine as a child you were also your adult self

[00:31:28] you understand me you understand what I'm saying now your adult self you could say it's you can say it's like a seed inside of you right now at ESP and ESP what we do is we take that seed and we plant it

[00:31:48] and we we plant it in fertile soil and the more work you do the more you follow that straight path or work that straight path the more your seed will grow that's about it that's all I got okay thank you both again for being so brave

[00:32:07] and sharing your story and keeping this conversation going it's desperately needed take care and I wish you and your family the best season take care bye-bye pretty good word salad thank you Blanca do you feel threatened by that do you feel like there's

[00:32:24] there's room for both of you in the word salad market you know what you know what I kind of feel like you know I'm being challenged a little bit that was pretty good I'm impressed considering she's never even met the man that was pretty good Blanca

[00:32:36] she did something pretty interesting there I thought about she said that I think this is kind of the thing that goes on like someone like Eckhart she hears Eckhart goes oh she just described what I was feeling like Eckhart put language to something that does that make sense

[00:32:49] yeah I don't know if that's necessarily what he was trying to do right he's just riffing on his own thing and I think I don't think if you can't make sense of what he's saying it's necessarily word salad I think he might have

[00:33:02] in his mind what he's saying and describing and that resonates with certain people because the words they use like if you ever hear someone articulate something and go yeah that makes sense but then here's someone else trying articulate something and go try again but then

[00:33:18] it's resonating with you does that make sense what I just said kind of what's not clear I think it goes back to what I was saying earlier like when you don't understand something it doesn't necessarily make it word salad right I think I think word salad is

[00:33:32] where it's a problem is the intention of the person and I think that's where I got a little defensive of Keith versus Eckhart I don't think Eckhart's trying to confuse people so they can control them I think he's I think he's trying to express some pretty heavy concepts

[00:33:47] and try to help people for the best way that he can and we thought that's what Keith was doing and he wasn't exactly exactly I think Eckhart has an understanding of what he's saying so if like you know the example I give about the virus

[00:33:59] well one might say that like there's a physical world and in that physical world there's viruses but in essence there might be a virus in the internal world that's fucking word salad because there's nothing quantifiable about what I'm saying I'm just saying shit that by saying association

[00:34:14] yeah it's right and making the obvious sound profound yeah right I just so I just feel like it's arrogant for me to say well I found it helpful so if you didn't then you're just like yeah yeah you don't get it right like if you're not

[00:34:27] doesn't resonate with you then don't listen to it that's what I think like we were a hundred percent guilty of when we were in next year well I just let it go when I didn't understand it yeah if I was watching something and I and I

[00:34:38] didn't understand it I actually thought I'm not smart enough for this or like everyone else is smiling and nodding so I'm gonna smile nod too it wasn't even that wasn't even that conscious of it I was just like okay I'm clearly missing there did I just fall asleep

[00:34:49] I zoned out and they used to say right like used to say all the time if you catch yourself falling asleep in the middle of a concept it means you have a disintegration in that area so they'd say like what were you talking about

[00:35:00] just before you zoned out all we're talking about money okay do I have a disintegration zone and money of course well like most people do so I think that that was the backbone of making the word salad acceptable because it just pointed to an area of

[00:35:14] that I have a disintegration around so that's why I can't follow him but I think also listen we were careful about this and like again we're not experts but we did talk to two specific experts and one person I think it was actually Stephen Hassan said

[00:35:29] that he didn't think he was a problem but he does have a sort of a hypnotic voice and that's just the way that he talks he did personally you know I haven't listened to that much Eckhart and I haven't read much of his stuff but you know

[00:35:41] when it comes to spiritual stuff I'm more interested in just not that that spiritual realm yeah for me personally it doesn't mean it doesn't have value though and who knows like it might in 10-15 years but right now I just don't feel particularly drawn to it

[00:35:58] hey there listener hope you're enjoying this episode and that you're remembering to hydrate stretch and unclench your jaws sometimes listening to conversations about heavy topics can really make you tighten up you know and remember a little bit culty loves you also come hang out with us on Patreon

[00:36:15] after you finish this episode it's fun over there fun is good and now here's a brief message from our sponsors this is Brittany what's up guys longtime listener first-time caller awesome I'm from the ATL so glad you people are headed back

[00:36:34] or for the first time for you Sarah you'll love it Nippy here's the deal I cannot hear anyone say you know it's interesting without thinking a total word salad is about to come in conversations when I'm talking with my friends every time anyone says the word it's interesting

[00:36:53] 100% I hear you in my head so thanks for all you guys are doing thanks for jumping into my mind throughout the regular day as people are having conversations and saying something's interesting love you guys support you so much and you're my favorite podcast have a good one

[00:37:10] I love that that's awesome yeah it's interesting you know it's so true though it's like hope I didn't hope I didn't fuck up you know it's interesting that I can't even do it but it's true you do tend to use that even when you're not doing word salad

[00:37:31] because I think it's become just part of who you are so watch it yeah yeah fair enough that was one of my favorites that's a great that's great that's a good positive review I hope we run into her that was awesome listen y'all thank you for reaching out

[00:37:47] and supporting us during another wave of chaos with the bow airing it's very very humbling to have all this support yeah we feel very loved appreciative to the people in patreon and watching our post episode the other day that was hilarious yes and look forward to

[00:38:04] delivering more content for you guys yes and we are going to have some really cool things there and listen it doesn't inspire you to join don't I will say that it is a way for us to keep going and pay for people to help us make it better

[00:38:17] and it's not cheap making a podcast so we really really appreciate that support there over on patreon and you'll get lots of goodies lots and lots of goodies including we have an episode where our kids are going to interview us and ask what they want to know

[00:38:33] and lots of other yeah we talked about it in the bath with Troy and Ace they wouldn't be on the podcast so it was time we bring them into the fold all right till next time till next time thanks guys bye bye I hope you liked this episode

[00:39:08] let's keep the conversation going and come hang out with us on patreon where we keep the tape rolling each week special episodes just for patreon subscribers and where we get deep into the weeds of unpacking every episode of the vow and if you're looking for our show notes

[00:39:21] or some sweet sweet swag or official albc podcast merch or a list of our most recommended cult recovery resources visit our website at a littlebitculti.com and for more background on what brought us here check out Sarah's page turning memoir it's called scarred

[00:39:35] the true story of how I escaped nexium the cult that found my life it's available on amazon audible narrated by my life and at most bookstores a little bit culty is a talkhouse podcast and a trace 120 production we're executive produced by sarah adminson and anthony nippy aims

[00:39:51] with writing research and additional production support by senior producer Jess tardy we're edited mixed and mastered by our rocking producer will rutherford of citizens of sound and our amazing theme song cultivated is by john bryant and co-written by nigel asselin thank you for listening