Breaking Character: Ex-Acting Students Speak Up (Part 2)

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[00:02:44] Welcome back to part two of two with our three guests, Alberta Main Bly, Brooke Henderson and Aaron Boyce. And just as a reference, this particular teacher is almost identical to all the other teachers that different people in our audience have written to us.

[00:03:02] We're out of elements of them. Yeah, including Candace Silver and a number of different programs and teachers, specifically NL, and the other students that we have written to us. We're out of elements of them.

[00:03:13] Yeah, including Candace Silver and a number of different programs and teachers, specifically NLA in New York, but definitely there are rampant in Vancouver also, any city. Enjoy part two with our fabulous guests. Okay, who wants to go first? What were the final straws?

[00:03:43] The things on the shelf that made it so heavy, it finally cracked. So I'm going to try and make this short. I did a play in Toronto with studio members, and at the time Michelle was in Los Angeles.

[00:03:56] I did a play and she wanted to give me notes every day. So she was directing me via whatever it was Skype, I guess at the time, giving me notes that I thought were to help the play.

[00:04:10] But what that was actually doing was I was being weaponized against the other actor that was in the play because there was a love triangle feud. She didn't like this other actress.

[00:04:20] And so I was getting notes that were, I guess collateral is what some cults would call them. She was telling me to do things against this actor that were her darkest, scariest things. So it was about her voice, I guess.

[00:04:33] So I would do these acting exercises, thinking that I was making the play better, but I was actually hurting this actress. Really strange. So I had a very tough time working with this group professionally. It was essentially like an equity co-op show.

[00:04:49] We were doing this show and it was a mess. It was the craziest show I'd ever done. There was so much drama. It was so bizarre. When that wrapped, I was then going to Los Angeles to produce another show back to back for Michelle.

[00:05:03] And those actors came as well. And as soon as I got into the studio, I felt like I was the other person. I was on the wrong side of the team. I did something wrong.

[00:05:15] All I did was execute the notes that she was giving me and I thought I was, you know, trying to do good work. No, I did something wrong. And then she was penalizing me, brutalizing me from the very beginning when I got to town.

[00:05:27] And then when we had these rehearsals outside, the entire ensemble of the play were sitting around a circle in her apartment and she brutalized me until the sun went down. She was telling me that I was making the room unsafe and I was causing her physical pain.

[00:05:46] And I was the reason that she was in pain and needed to go to the hospital. It was my fault because I was in resistance and I was making everything bad when in actuality, I came there

[00:06:00] and I achieved whatever it was she wanted me to do, which was to hurt this other actress. So I did my job and then she wrangled them back into her fold. It's hard to say it without getting into detail.

[00:06:13] This band was one of the first students that she had groomed and he was like her personal driver and best friend and he ended up getting married to another student.

[00:06:23] So it caused this weird conflict and she was very, she hated this other woman because she took the student away from her. So I was used to brutalize the student by saying notes about her voice in character

[00:06:38] and then when they all got back and everything was beautiful between them, I was the asshole and I was then brutalized and I was treated very strange and Erin was there at the time.

[00:06:49] It was a horrible situation to be in because I'm in Los Angeles with producing a play whatnot and I'm just being told how horrible I am. And my best friend was in the room while it was happening and she was shaking

[00:07:04] and she afterwards after this like sun going down brutalization session, she was like I wanted to throw her out the window. She was being so terrible to you and I was like look, we're in a really bad situation but I've already left in my mind.

[00:07:19] We're just gonna do this play and then get out. I'm gonna get my money back. I'm gonna recoup this play money and we're done because this is insane. Can I ask one thing?

[00:07:31] What made it different this time that you were done versus oh, there's something wrong with me. I've got to be better. You know, I don't think that I was really brutalized to that level before

[00:07:41] and I think that it was because in my case, I always had something to offer. I had this boyfriend that was producing movies. So she wasn't gonna fuck with me that much because I had something to offer and then there was the weaponizing me to hurt another student.

[00:07:59] I accomplished that so I wasn't really needed and then I was down there in another environment in Los Angeles. I was like down there with that group had nothing else going on. I was already there and in it 100%

[00:08:13] and so I think that she just had the ability to abuse me much further than she had before and I just remember sitting there in this, you know, constantly like abused, brutalized one student after another and I'm sitting in this auditorium or in this black box theater

[00:08:29] and I'm looking around and we're in Los Angeles and it's all Canadians minus like three or four people. Everyone is from Canada. Most of the people are pain rent up there, pain rent down here,

[00:08:41] pain money for this class and we're all sitting there being told that we're not worthy and that we're causing her physical pain because she was her hip was flaring up at the time or something

[00:08:51] and we were all being blamed for it because we didn't know our lines because we weren't going for it or and I just remember thinking like this is complete bullshit. Like we're all putting so much into being here.

[00:09:05] How dare you talk to everyone like this, but you couldn't say that at the time because you'd have a whole room turn against you. So I just played along at this point to get through the play and then get out as soon as I was done that play.

[00:09:19] I ghosted. I was never to be seen again. You didn't tell her? I didn't tell her smart. Yeah, I'm not going to say it. I'm not going to be in resistance.

[00:09:28] I'm going to play along. I'm going to go visit her in the hospital and she's saying this play is the only thing keeping me alive. We have to do it. And I'm like, yeah, we're totally going to do it. I'm going to get my money back.

[00:09:39] But but I'm like at the time I'm like at the time I was also dating my now husband. And so I had like all this other fun stuff going on.

[00:09:47] Oh, that's really key. That's a really key point because almost everyone that we know who gets out has something else to go to, you know, people have made the thing, whatever it is, the class, the work, the cult, the group, the religion, their life and then anything else.

[00:10:01] They stick with it because where else are you going to go? You're going to lose all your friends. You're going to lose all of your community.

[00:10:06] And for me at the time I was like, I want to get out of this because it's so toxic to be berated, you know, even like some really big actors at the time. And I'm not going to name names.

[00:10:17] They were getting like their butt handed to them in class. And it's like, for what? Give me an acting note. Don't give me a life note. Tell me how I can make this scene better. Don't tell me that I'm gay.

[00:10:30] Don't tell me that I want to suck a married man's dick. Like how is that going to help me? How is that going to help my acting? We're here to become better actors, right?

[00:10:40] We're here to book work and move on, not stay in this room and be berated over nonsense. So I just sort of, it was really watching my scene partner who had just had a baby. She was nursing.

[00:10:51] She was like pumping milk between rehearsals and she was a little baby. And Michelle doesn't understand what that means. And so she would just, she was like berating this actor and she didn't remember her lines for this monologue. And it was like, you're causing my illness.

[00:11:08] You are the reason I'm going to need to go to Cedars Hospital. That's a next level narcissist, isn't it? What? Next level insanity. Like there's no fucking lines, get over it. Let's just rehearse. Okay, so you ghosted. Did they ever try to reel you back in? No.

[00:11:23] I was trying to reel people out. So there was one of her teachers, one of my closest friends previously who I came down to Los Angeles with. I went to go pick him up from her studio and I sat in my husband's truck and he came out.

[00:11:38] We were driving him to the airport. I was always like offering, helping, like trying to stay connected and not get into detail, but just trying to help people like see how fucked up that area was, that studio.

[00:11:51] And so I went to go pick him up and she came out and I didn't expect her to. I didn't expect that she had the guts to come confront me and she came out. She was like, oh, I heard you got married.

[00:12:05] Well, I called you to congratulate you. I was like, oh really? I didn't get that call. Okay. I think she came out to test to see where I was at and I didn't get out of the truck to give her a hug. There's nothing.

[00:12:20] I was like, hey, what's up? Did you get him out? No, he's still deep in. Like this man is, he was married and then had another relationship with someone else.

[00:12:29] She really talked him out of all of that and I mean it's not my experience so I can't really get into it. But I feel like looking at what has happened to him as a human being, he's a shell of what he used to be

[00:12:41] and he no longer has his house and his wife and his dogs. He is completely subservient and doesn't look healthy. Looks like he could potentially have lost way too much weight. The last time I saw him was about four years ago. He came to my mom's condo.

[00:12:57] I tried to get him a meal and he had tried to sort of talk to him about where he was at and he had come out as gay but didn't have a boyfriend and no experience in it.

[00:13:07] I'm like, well maybe you're not because it's a very weird situation anyway. I tried to get him a meal and he couldn't run out of there fast enough and then he like deleted me on all of my social media and I'd never talked to him.

[00:13:22] But he's still very, very much in. And you're still trying to get people out? I'm not as active in trying to get people out. I did try and get Erin out, brought her over to my house

[00:13:31] and was trying to sort of chip away at it and talk to her about how much effort she was putting into the work which really meant like commitment to the studio. And just to highlight something in there,

[00:13:44] Alberta, I remember you were made to be seen as in such resistance. Oh after I left? Yeah. When you left I was afraid to be associated to you because I thought you were trying to destroy the work. In the room you were jealous of Michelle.

[00:14:00] You were carrying darkness and all the things that your notes had been that we had watched you get and then when you laugh that stuck. It carries with you like a cloud, you know? And then anything that you said that was ever against Michelle or the studio

[00:14:17] in my mind was more proof that you were trying to destroy something good. And then even as that was in my head, I was still so afraid of going into the studio that I was calling you and you were generously answering the phone as kind as you are

[00:14:37] and loving truly one of the most loving people I know. You would and it actually makes me so sad to think that I was so terrified to go into my own acting class I was calling you to ask you to coach me through the scene

[00:14:51] so I wouldn't go into the class and be tormented so deeply and you would sit on the phone and generously try to help me understand things. Not about Michelle, you were trying to help me understand the scene

[00:15:07] so that I would go in there and not get berated as badly as you knew I was going to go in and I can only imagine those phone calls were probably so heartbreaking for you knowing

[00:15:17] that nobody should have to call somebody else to prep before going into an acting class. You shouldn't need a support group for an acting class. No, that's major red flag. This is the golden age of cult recovery. The more we speak up and share our stories,

[00:15:34] the more we realize we are not alone. Your voice and your story can empower others. This is Sarah and I'm proud to be a founding collaborator of the hashtag I Got Out movement. Find out more at IGotOut.org This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[00:16:26] What are your self-care non-negotiables? Maybe you never skip leg day or never miss yoga. Maybe it's getting eight hours of sleep. That's my personal and everyone's dream, isn't it? Well, I definitely have some non-negotiables. Like I'm in Vancouver right now

[00:16:41] and I'm spending literally as much time as I can outside of nature. Hashtag cold pools, hashtag crushing it. Nature is a non-negotiable. Not enough time in the fresh air and the trees around me and I start to feel not great, not myself, not grounded.

[00:16:53] Therapy day is a bit like my nature walks. I try to not miss it and I know I'm just going to feel so much better all around if I make it a priority. I get so much out of it.

[00:17:01] It helps me put my worries and anxieties in their rightful place and helps me clear my mind so I can focus on what I really need and sometimes what I don't need. Like I don't need to be overbooking myself just because I hate to say no to people.

[00:17:12] You know what I mean? Thanks, therapy. Thanks for helping me see that. And if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire and get matched with a licensed therapist

[00:17:26] and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Look, even when we know what makes us happy, it's hard to make time for it. But when you feel like you have no time for yourself, non-negotiables like therapy are more important than ever. Never skip therapy day with BetterHelp.

[00:17:39] Visit betterhelp.com slash culty today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp H-E-L-P dot com slash culty. Well, good for you, Alberta. You were such a key part in this whole thing. And I want to get back to your healing in a moment,

[00:17:54] but since we're on new and now, Erin, what was your final straw? How did you end up leaving? I went to a studio in Montreal for a session in Montreal and one of the teachers that was working for Michelle had been for a while.

[00:18:07] One of the things was she was so unwell as a human being in that class that she was laying on the floor at Michelle's feet like a dog for hours during the classes. And Michelle was treating her like a pet.

[00:18:21] And this woman was then our teacher as well in like Michelle was teaching her how to be a teacher, even though this woman had been a teacher for a long time, but she was destroyed in that studio.

[00:18:32] And I had been in recovery for a few years at this time and recovery had helped start to chip away at some of the stuff that I had been believing in Michelle's studio for so long. So that was one of the things that started to open something,

[00:18:46] but I made Michelle my higher power, which worked really well paralleled to recovery. So it kind of worked and didn't work. Anyway, I was in Michelle's studio and this teacher who was teaching was laying at Michelle's feet. And then in Montreal,

[00:19:02] she was the one doing teaching for two days and then Michelle was coming in for two days. And the notes that this teacher gave me were so harsh and I couldn't figure anything out. And I was just, I was in resistance every day

[00:19:14] and I was torn apart and embarrassed and humiliated. And I just wanted to act this scene so badly because it was a very good scene. My partner was awesome, but I was wrong in everything. And then Michelle showed up in Montreal and gave me the opposite notes

[00:19:30] I had been given from this other teacher. So I had tried to adapt the notes that this teacher gave me and then I tried to do it Michelle's way. So I was wrong for five days. I was just wrong. Then Michelle turned to that teacher and said,

[00:19:42] what was it you were telling me yesterday in our private conversation? Why is it you don't like Aaron? And this is in front of my entire class and the teacher was taken off guard and then said because she's a know-it-all and I'm a know-it-all

[00:19:56] and I see that in my sense. She was a reflection of me. And so in that instance, this woman that was my teacher was turned against me personally and the entire class, it felt like the entire class was against me in that time.

[00:20:10] And then I went on to New York and to Toronto and Jamaica. I think after that I committed even harder, longer, so then cut to Toronto. I'm in a session in Toronto and this is after Jamaica where I'd done this amazing work and broken through all this stuff.

[00:20:24] And I was in Toronto doing a scene with the man that Michelle was dating at the time, the young student, young boy I want to highlight that she was in a relationship with that we had spent hours in class having them be the focus of the class

[00:20:42] about how their union was a beautiful thing and any judgment about it was blah, blah, blah. We were hijacked in the room talking about this relationship. And then I was in a scene with him and I was so exhausted. I was so broken down at this point.

[00:20:58] I was working as a nanny and as a caterer and everything to just try to pay for class. And I had been in intensive after intensive and class after class committing, committing, committing because now I was at the top of the third.

[00:21:12] So I did not want to let go of this. I finally felt like I was on to something and I had started to see a therapist very rarely just like around my recovery stuff and this therapist asked how long have you been in this studio?

[00:21:25] And I said like eight years at the time or nine years or something. And she said, is your career where you want it to be? And I said, what career? Like, like I'd never been asked that before. And she said, so you've been doing the same thing

[00:21:39] for nine years and you haven't gotten to where you want to be. And I said, no. And she said, does that sound same to you? And so the things that she was asking, she said, what would happen if you left? And I said, I don't understand your question.

[00:21:51] You know, like I just couldn't, but it was the questions that she started to ask. And then she tied it to a previous student who had left. He had been so messed up from that. So she said, this person sounding really familiar.

[00:22:03] And then I had ended up being a previous student had been in who was getting therapy about Michelle's trauma that she caused him. I was on my bike after one of these sessions, my brain started to not function and I couldn't make decisions.

[00:22:18] I couldn't, I was like in anxiety and depression and just on edge, although I was hyper vigilant. I felt like I was being watched. I was living with acting students for two years at that point. And they were monitors in the class. So they would tell her stuff.

[00:22:33] So I was, it was like being in prison with how they're built to always look at you, you know, prison buildings. That's what my life was for two years in Toronto. So I was on my bike and I had gotten a coffee

[00:22:44] and a water and I had bags on me and I was riding downhill and I was so out of it. I didn't even stop to think how am I going to stop at this intersection of moving cars? And I just went through the intersection,

[00:22:58] jumped off the bike, fell all over and the fact that I didn't get hit by a car or die in that scenario still, I look back, blows my mind. And then I was in this intensive with her boyfriend as my scene study partner and I couldn't,

[00:23:11] I couldn't take it. Something snapped because of the notes that I received in that studio. And I went home and I couldn't get out of bed for like three days and I pulled out of the next class and how you said there's always something to go to.

[00:23:24] I had somehow miraculously in those three days that I couldn't get out of bed. I was just crying and crying and I couldn't turn to anyone and I just felt so alone. It felt like somebody put a fork in my brain and I couldn't think anymore.

[00:23:39] An agent from Vancouver reached out to me, someone that I had wanted to work with for a long time. She reached out to me and said, I just had a spot on my roster open up and I wanted to invite you out to Vancouver

[00:23:50] if you want to work with me as a big agent. Oh my God. So it was something that I had that let me pull out of that New York session and I lost my money and I remember calling Michelle and saying I can't do the New York session

[00:24:03] and she was so cold to me. Her boyfriend was on the phone with her on three-way with me while I was pulling out of this session and we hung up the phone and I panicked after we got off the phone and I tried to call back.

[00:24:16] I probably called her back like six times because I was panicking and they didn't answer the phone and thank God they didn't answer the phone because I went through withdrawal and I tell you it was like drug withdrawal. I could not function for days

[00:24:32] but having that agent to go to in Vancouver saved my life, I think. And I lost my entire community and it's true for years after the people I'd lived with I wasn't invited to their wedding. Nobody talked to me. I was totally alone in Vancouver starting over.

[00:24:46] Oh, it's so awful, Erin. Shame on Michelle. Fuck. She just needs to be stopped. She should not be teaching people. She's hurting people. She's psychologically damaging so many people. Think of the people also who aren't willing to speak out like this,

[00:25:01] who just came for a few months and laughed and like feel fucked up and don't know why. Thank you for sharing that. Brooke, what was your final? So we kind of talked it before the orchestra and I think I brought it up before

[00:25:13] that there was one month where Michelle was also a student and so she was in the orchestra and again it's like the orchestra was doing relaxation and your intention and vocalizing it but you can also either do people appraisal for like, oh that was really honest

[00:25:28] what you just said or you can call people up. And I found that it was more calling people out in my experience personally. I wasn't there for very long with the orchestra though. So she started calling me out on how she couldn't act

[00:25:38] because I was in the room and I just froze because I was like I'm sitting in a chair crying about Mary had a little lay on the fact I don't know what am I doing to you? I'm 22. And so anyways that happened that was really awkward

[00:25:50] and I didn't know how, I just froze like I literally just frozen my body didn't know what to do didn't really do the work very well. The coach that was trying to mediate the two of us I think was also a little uncomfortable

[00:26:02] and didn't know how to handle it. So fast forward we're done relaxation or the orchestra we're sitting down another scene is going up. It's another girl around my age and she's not quote unquote doing the work and so Michelle who's not teaching

[00:26:14] but decides to stop the room and she goes do you know why you're not doing the work? Because of Brooke. It's like what did I do? I'm sitting in the audience like what am I doing? So I'm like what? And she was like your attitude

[00:26:26] and your presence is like making room for this bad behavior. You are initiating it and encouraging it and now you're facilitating other students to have this bad behavior about the work and I was again I just like froze I was like I don't understand

[00:26:42] because a month prior I had gotten all this praise and like gone to New York and was told how talented and brave I was so I was just very confused there was a lot going in my brain I was trying to memorize my lines

[00:26:54] and think about the notes from last week and then trying to deal with why I was facilitating this other act or not doing the work and then she kind of kept going off and yeah a bit of like a this is like a bit of a trigger warning

[00:27:07] I guess it's a bit of like a touchy she said some really problematic things and I'll try to word it in ways that aren't super problematic but she basically said she compared me to a terrorist group and she said you're no different than them

[00:27:20] and she said next week you might as well just come in the room with a bomb strapped on yourself and blow us up and you up and everyone in it because you're metaphorically and physically sucking the love and the talent and the art out of the room

[00:27:34] she went on to like berate me like that for probably 20 minutes and then again similar things and then she said that I was the one causing her physical pain I was the one specifically making her ill

[00:27:45] she couldn't do any art or work while I was in the room because I was sucking all the talent out of it and then made everyone kind of vote if they agreed and they all did and I wasn't even I hadn't even done my scene yet

[00:27:56] I was just sitting in the audience watching and then we had a quick bathroom break and she said okay you're up next and I was just so like not even in my body like I remember like I'm just like watching this from above

[00:28:08] and then I went to the washroom and of course I didn't want to cry in front of her I was and still I'm very stubborn so I kind of waited until we went to the washroom and I just completely broke down in like hysterics

[00:28:20] and another actor comforted me and instead of saying like wow that would really mess up they were like you just have to move through this note it was like just accept it and like admit that you've messed up and like take responsibility for your part in it

[00:28:35] and I was like that's so I didn't do anything I'm also 22 years old 23 like I don't understand what I'm doing so wrong to this woman in her 50s so that was really strange to me too because I was getting comforted

[00:28:49] but in a way that was still my fault so then I went up and did the scene and I don't remember the scene at all I remember it was bad I remember just getting berated and just kind of like I just have to

[00:29:01] kind of like what I'll be listening like hang tight and then that was the second last week of that month and the next week I went back and I remember just like really trying to get her approval and she wasn't making any eye contact with me

[00:29:13] like she still walled me and I had a bit, I think I did the scene really bad again she didn't give me any attention though there was nothing and then I came back to audit so I took a few months off

[00:29:25] and then I told some other friends who were actors who weren't in the class and they were pointing out how they're just some of the actors are older than me too and they're just so disappointing that this older woman is like taking down this young actress

[00:29:39] like they should be building you up and teaching you not like you shouldn't be paying somebody to just be like tearing you down in ways that are so have nothing to do with acting comparing me to a terrorist has nothing to do with my ability to act

[00:29:53] and if you don't like me, I'm not taking your talent away anyway so then I came back to audit a couple months later because I think I didn't know where I was I wasn't sure if I was going to leave forever

[00:30:03] or just for a bit like I had to go back and be in the room one more time and see how it felt in my body and she wasn't there in the class I audited but the other teacher he started calling me out too

[00:30:15] he's like I found it very interesting you chose the one week to come and audit when she's not here, like you're afraid of her and I was like I don't know what week she's going to be here or not she was like in and out of like

[00:30:25] other locations and I was like I'm going to be here every week but it was my fault that I came to one class she wasn't there and then they said and something Michelle had been telling me too around that time was I'm avoiding something

[00:30:37] and that I really need to face it and once I take this note it's going to change and radicalize my art but she can't tell me what it is so I have to keep paying to come back and once I'm brave enough

[00:30:49] to admit it, the world will shift there is still a part of my head that is like did I mess up I'm just in resistance right now because we're doing this I'm going to just tell you right now you're not in resistance

[00:31:01] you are in the face of my opinion a sociopathic narcissistic fuck nugget allegedly hey there listener hope you're enjoying this episode and that you're remembering to hydrate, stretch and unclench your jaws sometimes listening to conversations about heavy topics can really make you tighten up

[00:31:19] and remember a little bit culty loves you also come hang out with us on Patreon after you finish this episode it's fun over there, fun is good and now here's a brief message from our sponsors your purchase will be donated to local pantries together we can combat hunger

[00:31:59] in our local communities at Macy's your critical thought is being called resistance now when you're thinking critically you think it's resistance but it's not it's your critical thought you have to recognize it as such again which was so hard to do at 22 like it was incredibly hard

[00:32:39] yeah, yeah try 42 yeah well and the thing that you said about the teacher so those notes what I found out was that you were you were trying to get into the so those notes what I found out recently and part of why I wanted to do the podcast

[00:32:57] why I agreed to it because I didn't want to until the magazine article came out in between that and talking to the hundreds of students that have come out that have been traumatized and a lot of it has been validating from my own experience

[00:33:09] it wasn't until the magazine came out and I talked to so many students that I was validated again but the teacher thing I talked to one of the teachers that was working for her and I even talked about Montreal and she said yeah Michelle

[00:33:21] was sending me texting me notes and zooming notes to us like those teachers most of it wasn't even coming from them she was telling them what to say and then she was coming in and giving us opposing notes which means she was purposely fucking with our head

[00:33:39] she was weaponizing in a very deep way that was one thing and then also that LA studio that was two stories high do you remember it we worked in I don't know if either of you worked in that studio but there was a studio in LA

[00:33:51] it was two stories we were in there for a while her bed was upstairs she lived in this space and taught out of the bottom so she would be sick up in bed having this in particular this male teacher teaching downstairs who that we all trusted

[00:34:07] and to this day I do want to make clear I trust him and I adore him and I think he's a very beautiful human being and a beautiful artist and I hope the teachers don't carry too much shame and guilt about things because I don't blame them

[00:34:17] at all so I do want to have that said he would be teaching us and she would be upstairs listening judging his teaching and she would come downstairs hobble you know her body would be like contorted she'd be making sounds ugh ugh

[00:34:33] we'd have to hear in the quiet of the acting studio she'd come downstairs to take over the class to take over his teaching to put him in place so that he knew he wasn't teaching hard enough and we were getting away with too much

[00:34:45] and then we would be blamed for her sickness and illness and the eventuality of her death was going to be on us because of our resistance she's about to get a lot of resistance if she hasn't already have you guys heard about how she's responded

[00:35:01] does anyone heard any rumors about how the articles affected her or what's happening now that people are speaking out against her well she's currently in Italy putting I believe two shows up in Italy and I've actually had Italian actors contact me because

[00:35:17] she's going through the Italian actors now in the same way and berating giving weird life notes having them cut their hair all the same stuff and she's fallen out with people and not wanted to pay people and not paid for theaters moved to another theater

[00:35:33] you know she's doing the same thing all over again but she does have her core Canadians there with her studying and working on stage in Italy like how many actors are in her little circle I think it's usually always around 20 or 30

[00:35:47] I don't think that she ever gets much bigger so like it's not a huge cult but it's a strong one and her core have been there for over 15 years her core people two of which were very good friends of mine and I don't recognize who they are anymore

[00:36:03] and as a teenager a lot of this stuff can sound middle of the road maybe I don't know I hear it and like whoa that was but as a teacher now I've been a teacher for six years seven years doing a lot of therapy

[00:36:17] to get over everything from the studio a lot of therapy some of the resources that you've posted Sarah have helped me to the therapy resources to getting out of a narcissistic relationship and as a teacher I feel that line every time I teach

[00:36:33] if I go over this line if I say this note or where I am disempowering them or I'm going into a place that's personal instead of about acting I never cross that line it's like a very icky feeling to get even close to that line

[00:36:49] so the fact that she crossed it every time she taught to every student month after month after month is very alarming that she doesn't have a conscience that stops her from that that is a huge red flag it's not how those people work it's leveraging people's

[00:37:07] honest efforts and values and idealism for her own gain and that's the lie I was just going to add to what Alberta was saying too it is a smaller cult I think the thing that's been the most interesting is just learning the generations

[00:37:21] of people and how many people like I lived in Toronto when I went there obviously people in Toronto knew about it because I was there and then I moved back to Vancouver and my current acting coaches are affected by this and their peers

[00:37:37] I have a friend who is an intimacy coach who knows about it in their 60s and I'm like this is crazy, generations people that are my parents age to mind so they're younger that are affected throughout Canada I could throw a stone and 5 people

[00:37:49] would be like yeah I've heard of her my friend went there that was one of the most mind blowing things after the article came out was the people that had reached out and then some of my teachers when I went to film school

[00:37:59] are reaching out too and being like I was like that's crazy the people that taught me in school so it is small but it's also incredibly large at the same time 25 students teaching for 25 years and not the same 25 or 30 students it's been decades of this

[00:38:19] if only it were just about the acting right I've got co-teachers very good artists it makes me sad to think about incredible artists that are carrying so much shame and guilt around things that they've done to other students in the room and as teachers and into their families

[00:38:41] I missed my cousin's wedding because I couldn't miss an acting class because I would be not committed enough and that is big life stuff that students are missing because they are being fucked with in their heads for this person that's really good advice actually

[00:38:57] what are people listening who are not sure what advice would you guys have for people who are in acting class or people who know kids or have kids in acting class what are the major red flags to look out for

[00:39:07] how do we keep people safe from teachers like this something that I really like with my training doing art therapy is there is a big emphasis now in the therapy world on trauma and form and person centered and that was something that I never had in that training

[00:39:21] before being person centered like what do you feel like instead of being like you have to say yes I have a singing coach now a voice coach who is very person centered and it's never I don't get berated if I forgot something it's not like I'm in resistance

[00:39:37] and she'll ask her students questions just making sure that the student feels okay and it's not we're not just a product actors are not just a product to walk in and say lines there are people too and you need to also check

[00:39:51] in with how they're doing instead of berating them for having a bad day and not being able to perform like a circus monkey I think that's something that I would tell like an acting somebody looking for acting check in with how it's sitting in yourself

[00:40:03] instead of the coach telling you how it's sitting in yourself and it's so hard to have this beacon of truth being outside of you that's not authentic, that's not true your own beacon of truth and you have to check in with that

[00:40:17] I think that's such a good point the authority on your work is the fine line well, the road to authenticity is what you said it's internal and their process ensures that you'll never reach it because you're always handing off your authenticity someone else and that's not really authentic

[00:40:33] so how do we center, how do we have creative spaces that stretch you and that purposely put you in touch with your discomfort like how do you create a safe space for that there's something in acting classes where you do need to tap into your trauma

[00:40:47] and you do need to tap into your life experience but voicing it in class as a sort of transactional collateral thing that's not how you do it that's not how Larry Moss who I mentioned in the other episode, Larry Moss was a bit of a cult around him

[00:41:03] but he would say like who is this person that did this don't say it, don't name it feel it, go there so there was never a need to talk about it and to tell your trauma in front of these actors

[00:41:17] pretend that you had trauma in order to appease her that doesn't make any sense you don't need to do that to become a better actor you don't need to do that to tap in but if you're not skilled at teaching and if you're not actually teaching acting

[00:41:31] if you're using it for another for a transactional purpose to have something over someone then it's a totally different story but in an acting class it is not necessary to talk about your life your sexuality, any of it in the work, you don't talk about it

[00:41:47] so that's a red flag in an acting class there should be limits on how much you are required to speak about your own personal life I also think like the opportunity to say no if I'm giving a scene that's traumatic in a way

[00:41:59] that I don't want to process say I'm still dealing with addiction for example if I were an actor and I was given an audition from my agent that was an addiction or around that subject I could say no

[00:42:09] so it's like why in a class do I have to do it when I'm ready I can work on that but being forced to address something I'm not ready to process my own trauma is not, that's not safe

[00:42:19] also who's to say that that necessarily makes you a better actor another red flag would be the amount of effort and money you're expected to put into a situation you can take a class for a month or six months or a year whatever it is

[00:42:31] I mean I studied with people for years and put in 30 hours of rehearsal but it was never, I was never devoted to a studio like or the community in a way where I had to like raise money and do extracurricular work in order to get approval

[00:42:45] so if you're expected to go to New York and you're expected to go to Italy and put all this money in that's a red flag with an acting studio if you're expected to pay all this money and follow this teacher around to other cities and countries

[00:43:01] and work illegally and what not that's a huge red flag like why do you have to do that yeah and then also never graduate yeah there's no ending so we've spent two hours with these women and I'm enraged and impressed all the same time

[00:43:15] so we're going to do part three of what the aftermath has been like what everyone's working on now how the community is dealing with the bomb of that article I also want to hear about what you thought of the article did it cover everything, what was missing

[00:43:29] and we're going to save that for our third episode with Alberta Brooke and Erin and we will meet up again and have a special episode that will be over on Patreon we hope that you would join us there and we will focus on all of those things

[00:43:45] the healing, the aftermath and what you all thought of that article in the interim, Alberta if people want to reach out to you and they're hearing about this and maybe they're in Italy and they need support what's the best way to reach you people have messaged me on

[00:43:59] just Instagram and Facebook Messenger that's how the Italians found me with Facebook Messenger social media amazing because you're so out there publicly my name's in the article Alberta Bly I was in there and so they were able to find me

[00:44:13] yeah so I'm talking with a really brave woman in Italy who is you know spreading the article around to people who she's quote unquote lost to the studio so she's alone right now with her and another woman more fires they have to put out the better

[00:44:31] and Brooke where can people find you yeah people can find me on my Instagram as well Alberta did you drop your handle or you can find me Alberta Bly on Facebook Messenger like my social media is closed but you can still

[00:44:43] contact me like I don't have my page open for anyone to just look at my pictures but you can still contact me there so Alberta Bly if they Google that they'll find me yeah I've mainly been doing it on Instagram but people are

[00:44:55] more than welcome to DM me as well Instagram my Instagram handle is just a babbling underscore Brooke if anyone is interested Erin's having trouble getting back in let me just say this about her she made it a short dramatic film called three days

[00:45:09] about this subject and we'll put that in the show notes and it's about an acting teacher and a psychiatrist and positions of power it's really well done and beautifully shot and acted Erin's quite remarkable in it and I'd like to talk to her more about that

[00:45:23] so we lost Erin to technical difficulties but she just messaged me to say and I think this is super important and a great note to end on is that students should not ever feel that acting class is more important than it is

[00:45:33] and that is so true and it should never take the place of family and other important values for you or if you're ever torn between those two things that's definitely a red flag and we will 100% follow up with Erin and Brooke

[00:45:45] and Alberta in our third episode about healing and the aftermath perhaps we'll even perform a scene from cat on a hot tin roof in you know student relaxation together I don't know like anything could happen love it yes or just some David Mamet David Ray

[00:46:01] and you know yeah some Shanley those are the three things I remember seeing 20 years ago a lot of a lot of people snorting fake cocaine off tables and sounds like a plan their shirts off and dry humping each other so on that note same old

[00:46:13] same old good old acting class happy to be out of that world I have to say thank you all for sharing really appreciate you to be in your position to speak out against somebody who's so scary is very very brave and you know I'm a little scared too

[00:46:27] so here we are appreciate y'all look forward to part three till next time thank you guys for sharing so I never felt completely comfortable in acting classes and I always thought it was me and I may have been you it may have been

[00:47:08] well it may have been that's I mean you joke but that's kind of what it is I would go into it yeah it's a little bit of like hey I don't I don't like the tactics going on here I don't like the culture it just didn't feel like

[00:47:22] and it was hard but you also want to get better you won't have a weight room so to speak you want to have a training lab and with stuff like this it's always ripe for you're not doing the work or something like that

[00:47:34] and then eventually when it felt like it got too past the boundary I wasn't comfortable I'd peace out I still find it so wild that I also pieced out from Michelle's class in the early is it early 2000s this is like three years before I got

[00:47:48] into next year I think it's just wild like that I feel that I think there wasn't enough of a structure for me or like a thing that I could see that I'd be striving towards also wasn't abusive at first that's true and also

[00:48:02] there was no you can have this there's no thing to strive for except for her like gold star from her her approval and I really didn't like her that much so that saved me and then just like other people came to

[00:48:14] information nights to next year we're like yeah it's not my thing I don't like it enough to pay that much money they might not even had language as to why they didn't like it right because our intros didn't really have a lot to object

[00:48:24] to except this my intro is the five day you mean yeah yeah I mean some people be like oh I feel uncomfortable with how much everyone's so into it yeah or I feel uncomfortable with them be they wouldn't said I feel love bomb

[00:48:36] but they're like oh everyone's so happy anyway just goes to fortify the theme of our podcast it's that culty behaviors aren't proprietary to cult abuses of power aren't proprietary to cults they're everywhere and thank you guys for sharing your story and we're going to keep this conversation going

[00:48:54] right sir we're going to do a part 3 right at some point maybe a live thing on patreon come find us there and follow our brave ladies and give them some love on the social means social means and we'll see you next week for doth do doh doh

[00:49:10] or more good things alright bye hope you like this episode let's keep the conversation going and come hang out with us on patreon where we keep the tape rolling each week special episodes just for patreon subscribers and where we get deep into the weeds

[00:49:36] of unpacking every episode of the valve and if you're looking for our show notes or some sweet sweet swag or official albc podcast merch or a list of our most recommended cult recovery resources visit our website at our website at alilibitculti.com

[00:49:54] and for more background on what brought us here check out Sarah's page turning memoir it's called scar true story of how I escaped nexium the cult that bound my life it's available on amazon audible narrated by my wife and at most bookstores a little bit culty is

[00:50:08] a talkhouse podcast and a trace 120 production were executive produced by Sarah Edmondson and Anthony nippy aims with writing research and additional production support by senior producer Jess tardy we're edited mixed and mastered by our rocking producer will Rutherford of citizens of sound

[00:50:26] and our amazing theme song cultivated is by John Bryant and co-written by Nigel Asselin. Thank you for listening