Bursting the bubble: Morgan Tyler on Leaving the Church

[00:00:00] The views and opinions expressed by A Little Bit Culty are those of the hosts, and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any of the fucking mazeball content provided by our guest bloggers, sponsors, or authors

[00:00:13] are of their opinion and are not attended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business, individual, anyone or anything. We're not doctors, not psychologists, we're certainly not the AP that's associated with press for those of you listening at home.

[00:00:24] We're two non-experts. We've found ourselves making a little podcast that people happen to like. Okay? Yeah. Okay. Hey everybody, Sarah Edmondson here and I'm Anthony Ames, aka Nippy, Sarah's husband, and you're listening to A Little Bit Culty, aka ALBC, a podcast about what happens when devotion

[00:00:53] goes to the dark side. We've been there and back again, a little about us, true story, we met and fell in love in a cult, and then we woke up and got the hell out of dodge.

[00:01:03] And the whole thing was captured in HBO docu-series The Vow now in its second season. I also wrote about our experience in my memoir, Scarred, the true story of how I escaped

[00:01:13] next to him, the cult that bound my life. Look at us, a couple of married podcasters who just happened to have a weekly date night where we interview experts and advocates and things like cult awareness and mind control. Wait, wait, this does not count toward date night, babe.

[00:01:26] We got to schedule that, that's separate. So it's two days we gotta hang out? We do this podcast thing because we learned a lot on our exit ramp out of Nexium, still on that journey and we want to pay the lessons forward with the help of other cult

[00:01:38] survivors and whistleblowers. We know all too well that culty things happen. It happens to people every day across every walk of life. So join us each week to tackle these culty dynamics everywhere from online dating to mega churches and multi-level market.

[00:01:51] This stuff really is everywhere. The Cultiverse just keeps on expanding and so are we. Welcome to season five of A Little Bit Cultie, serving cult content and word salads weekly on your favorite podcast platforms. Learn more at alittlebitculti.com.

[00:02:07] Welcome back, everybody. Hey, girl. Hey, boy. I am really tickled. How's that tickled? Tickled. To share a guest with y'all, somebody who I feel like is gonna round out the ex-Evangelical Christian trilogy after we had Alice Gretchen and Will Rutherford.

[00:02:45] Now we have Morgan Haley, a fitness and yoga instructor who grew up in an evangelical Christian church as the oldest of six other siblings. No longer in that church. Haley is now out. It's a proud lesbian woman living in Louisville, Kentucky with her fiancee.

[00:03:01] And if you know even a little bit about evangelical Christianity, you already know that there's a lot to talk about. Purity rings and righteous gemstones, anybody? Morgan joins us to break down her journey coming out of the closet as an adult,

[00:03:15] leaving the church and what it means to deconstruct Christianity. We also talked about how this exit process has affected her relationships with her community and what it's like at family dinners nowadays, if at all. This episode certainly isn't our first rodeo with evangelical Christianity.

[00:03:30] And of course, there are exceptions to the rule. Hashtag not all evangelicals, hashtag live in that live. And if it gets your pretty coats in a bunch, well bless your heart. You're in our prayers. Just kidding. Thoughts and prayers. Thoughts and prayers.

[00:03:42] We hope that you enjoy this very fun and casual conversation with Morgan Taylor. Good morning, Morgan Tyler Haley. Good morning. This is so great. You know why this is great for us? Why? I'll tell you because you didn't have a memoir or a documentary that we needed to

[00:04:10] watch or read before preparing. Get to know me as we go. Yeah, well that's oftentimes we read the memoir and then we have to pretend that we don't know things so that we can ask questions otherwise. Oh my gosh.

[00:04:22] Right? So this is actually better because we actually don't know your story. Like I know Lucy. Oh, I love that. So it's like a really true discovery of who is. I love that. Morgan Haley Tyler. Morgan Tyler Haley, MTH. All the things.

[00:04:37] Where to start? Your birth? Your parents? I don't know. Well, I was birthed in 1990. I'm the oldest of seven. So there are seven kids in our family. First thing people normally ask me is like, oh from the same parents? I'm like yes.

[00:04:52] And then their second question, were you a Mormon? No. And it was never boring and we grew up super duper conservative. We grew up non-denominational so Christian. And it's interesting because like growing up like that,

[00:05:07] I never thought of myself in something that I would use the word cult around. But also, it's so weird growing up in that environment because it is normal. You're in an echo chamber. You don't know anything else. And my parents did a very good job at making sure,

[00:05:26] well I'm sure they thought they were like protecting us from the outer world. But all of our music, our media, our friends, everything was very in a bubble, very sheltered. They kind of controlled all of what we were consuming. So truly I didn't know any different.

[00:05:45] And being the oldest also that kind of comes with a sense of responsibility of like I'm setting the example for six of my younger siblings and we were homeschooled. So we were even in more of a sheltered environment because you're not leaving the house and going to school.

[00:06:03] Like everything is just very planned out for you by your parents and kind of put into motion by your parents. So it was really, it's interesting to look back on as an adult because I have very fond memories of being so close with all of my siblings

[00:06:19] and getting to take these cool field trips that like other kids weren't taking. And I think so many truths can exist. Like my childhood was also a place where I was nurtured in one sense, where you know I was taken care of.

[00:06:34] I had food at every meal, clothes on my back roof over my head, parents that really drove us in a success driven like religion focused way. And then on the other hand, I also look back and I feel very emotionally stunted, socially stunted.

[00:06:52] And so it's interesting to look back on the contrast of that and recognize that like so many different truths can exist from like that time in your life. Well, it's certainly a healthy perspective to have instead of being resentful, angry,

[00:07:06] and just to kind of take inventory of what it is. Yeah, well it totally is. Well, I mean it totally is but like to describe it like that, I mean obviously I'm sure those emotions exist

[00:07:17] but to be at a point where you can go back and kind of take inventory and then separate the two I think is a healthy approach at least. I definitely went through those stages for sure. I'm sure, I'm sure.

[00:07:27] I think like anyone, like anyone that comes out of that you're just kind of like almost grieving. I had mine. A loss, yeah. I mean, yeah. And I think what I try to bring light to on my page because so many people don't know,

[00:07:43] like non-denominational Christianity I personally think is the biggest modern day cult in America right now. But it flies under the radar because it's so socially accepted and like what our nation was founded on quote unquote and it's just everywhere and people don't realize,

[00:08:03] there's also so many sects of Christianity and so one person's story is not going to match another person's story and I grew up in the Southern Bible Belt like a very, very conservative like religious place and you put on top of that being homeschooled

[00:08:23] and then also my parents starting their own home church which this is when it started to feel really culty to me. I was like okay we're meeting out in the middle of the woods at a campground with like eight other families

[00:08:38] and the dads decided they were all pastors and the moms brought food every Sunday and that's when it really started to feel like okay we're being isolated even more because my parents at one point got to the point where they were like

[00:08:53] even showing up at a church building, they couldn't regulate what was being said there. You know, they weren't in control of what the pastors were talking about what they didn't even want us going to youth group.

[00:09:04] We had to stay with my parents the whole time we were at church for a period of time and then they were like you know what, let's just take them out of church completely and start our own church

[00:09:14] and that's when I was like oh I look back and I'm like that's concerning and at the time it didn't feel that way. I was so young I was like oh cool I gotta you know meet once a week with

[00:09:23] people that we hang out with all the time anyways. It's like hanging out with my friends, you know I'm showing up for the food and yeah and then you look back and you're like wow okay

[00:09:32] we met in a really remote spot in the middle of the woods every week so our fathers could teach us whatever they wanted to. Where was this? So I grew up in Kentucky in Louisville and I will say Louisville has come a long way.

[00:09:47] It's definitely a blue bubble in a red state if you will but you know I've been here since I was eight years old I'm 32 now so it's been when I was eight it was much different and my parents yeah started homeschooling us

[00:10:01] and you know when you homeschool you meet other families at homeschool and so we start these little co-op groups you know where you meet with other families a few times a week and each of the moms normally teach a different subject

[00:10:15] and they kind of delegate out you know different subjects and that's how we grew up and you know it made that bubble of being Christian even smaller because like I said you know you're being taken out of even showing up at like a school

[00:10:31] and then at that certain point even showing up at a church like anywhere where they couldn't possibly like you know regulate every single thing we were learning or seeing or being taught kind of slowly

[00:10:43] I felt like got stripped away and it is interesting to reflect on like how I was raised versus how my youngest sibling is now being raised there's a 19-year age gap

[00:10:54] and so my parents are nowhere near as strict and just you know really I don't know I don't know what the word is they're definitely not as strict I feel like they're still as religious but I kind of

[00:11:06] think they're tired this is their seventh kid so they're not you know they're not laying down the law as much as they once were and so my experience is so radically different than honestly all of

[00:11:18] my other siblings I was the first I was the guinea pig my parents tested I say tested but they did you know like I went through passport to purity this like workbook for you know remaining

[00:11:28] pure until marriage like they they tried out so many things that half of my siblings don't even know what that is or like wait what did mom and dad make you do and and it's interesting to navigate

[00:11:37] that you know like they have a totally different perspective of my parents than I do what was the homeschool you know it's so funny that we've this has been coming up a lot recently and almost

[00:11:47] all of these cults where you're raised in it there's a there's homeschool a homeschooling component and I just was curious is that like is that curriculum that you're like still dealing with

[00:11:59] the sort of us school system and then throwing in some some bible stuff or is it just religious homeschool so you do have to meet a certain criteria state to state g ed right right so my mom

[00:12:15] did send in paperwork like we obviously had to prove that we were learning and completing certain subjects now they didn't regulate what the curriculum of that subject was how it was taught so like for example science to me was taught through completely like a creationist lens

[00:12:34] oh wow yeah so you know I just to put it like simply this is I was just taught Darwin was evil you know he was evil god was not you know god is a creator Darwin was evil anyone that speaks

[00:12:49] differently from like what's in the bible so that's kind of my whole view of how I grew up to see the world was through a Christian lens you know down to what I learned in school and it's wild

[00:13:03] to contrast with other people now and and people are blown away to find out you know like that's that's what you're being taught is everything is through this one lens and you don't grow up

[00:13:16] knowing any different and you enter whatever the real world is you know when you're not living with your parents anymore and you can talk to whoever you want to and it's kind of a culture

[00:13:26] shock wasn't an abrupt transition you know actually I kind of feel like it happened gradually for me because I so being homeschooled right you can learn it whatever rate really that you accelerate at and I loved learning so I actually started college at 16 my parents

[00:13:44] picked out my degree for me and you know at this point you're just a kid like you're 16 I'm not going to be like you know if my parents pick something out from me I'm assuming at this point

[00:13:53] you know they know what's best for me this has just been normal my whole life so like I really didn't think anything of it at that time I was like oh great you picked out vascular sonography

[00:14:03] which is you know ultrasounds of like the veins and arteries like that's cool I love the body I love taking pictures like sounds like y'all picked out something you know great for me but like at 16

[00:14:14] you don't know what you want so I went to school for that and I went to a local community college where I would go there during the day and obviously I was still living with my parents at that time

[00:14:25] because I was young and I think that was when I slowly that was really my first time I was like going into the world if you will like showing up at a classroom that they weren't at interacting with

[00:14:38] you know people that were single moms and adults like you know getting their college degree but people in my classes were anywhere from you know 18s and their 50s and I think that was

[00:14:50] very eye-opening for me just being around people of different walks of life that didn't grow up like I did that weren't religious and so that was kind of a slow like step in that direction and

[00:15:01] then I ended up getting married super young at like 20 years old and I think that was another kind of starting to like get out of my parents world and into just like my world but still very religious

[00:15:14] you know I married someone that was also a Christian whose parents were very prominent in the church that we grew up going to and I wouldn't say honestly it wasn't until my divorce where

[00:15:25] I just felt like I ripped the rug out from under myself and was like whoa for the first time ever I am doing something simply for me and not because anyone told me to not because anyone

[00:15:37] you know navigated me in this direction but like literally doing it for me and simultaneously going against every person in my life right now because still at that point when I got a divorce

[00:15:50] most of my friends you know like you just keep the same friends you're in that community you grow up with those people like you all get married young and follow the little life plan that everyone does

[00:16:01] when you're when you're living that lifestyle and so yeah when I got a divorce it was a huge eye-opener for me just how people in that community that say they'll support you no matter what and love you unconditionally how they actually show up in their actions when

[00:16:17] you do something that they don't agree with and I think that's very enlightening for a lot of people coming out of any kind of culty situation like that it's just like whoa I thought you were like my family

[00:16:30] how long did you stay married for like how old were you when when you got divorced so I was married for almost five years and we'd been together I think for almost eight at that

[00:16:41] point so it was a big chunk of my life you know when I got divorced it was probably like we'd been together for like a third of my life and I just I'm honestly so glad there's one person I told

[00:16:54] when I was married how unhappy I was and you know how sometimes you like look back and you're just like did I make that more dramatic than it was or was it actually that bad and I am so thankful

[00:17:09] I told this one friend how I was feeling during my marriage because she remembers all of it and I just like she was the only person I opened up to and I'm so glad I did that because I think when you

[00:17:20] come out of situations like this a lot of people like to make you feel like you're crazy or you know you're making that too much of a big deal it wasn't like that no it was like this and

[00:17:32] I've done that at times where I've gone back and doubted my own experience because you know people make you feel crazy about it and so coming out of that was just so eye opening to see

[00:17:44] the people the few few people that really did stand by me and I'm still friends with to this day versus the people that were like oh my gosh you know like growing up you couldn't even say the word

[00:17:54] divorce we called it the d-word like you know like you don't say the word divorce it's like an unspoken you know like that doesn't exist in the world that I grew up in it's not an option

[00:18:06] and for so long I think I stayed in the marriage for as long as I did because I was taught that you know your life is not for you it's about sacrifice it's hard it's not for your happiness

[00:18:19] and to enter the kingdom of heaven one day like you have to you know sacrifice lots of your happiness in this earthly life to be a good Christian and so I was convinced for most of

[00:18:35] my marriage that I was actually doing the right thing because I was miserable that's such a crazy part of that doctrine it's like I didn't realize it was so like suffering is key yes why do you

[00:18:50] bring is key why do you think that like what who benefits from keeping people miserable like why like wouldn't you want your arrogance to be happy I feel I mean yes ideally but I also think

[00:19:04] happy people have more self-confidence I feel like when you keep people miserable and you keep people scared they're much more susceptible you know to what you're teaching them if you start to spread your wings and want to be happy I imagine there's a contingency of

[00:19:20] people are like who do you think you are you get to be happy so they reinforce it I mean Sarah we saw it on a micro level with the people that were in the inner circle like why do you get to be different

[00:19:32] from us and go do that so that probably feel a little bit resentful that yes you want to go do what they're afraid to do yes it's such a good point I was just talking about that the

[00:19:42] other day like people project that onto you they see you doing something that deep down they're like man like I wish I could have that or like you know they see someone else doing that and they

[00:19:52] immediately shut it down because they can't have that they can't have that in their own life that's not right like if that person can have it and I can't I mean we see that all the time people just

[00:20:02] projecting their own own stuff onto someone else that's actually out there trying to change their life and I meant to ask this from the beginning were your parents also born into Christianity

[00:20:13] or did they choose it so it's interesting they're so quiet about how they grew up which is one thing I I think they probably did on purpose like I had this image of my parents is very like perfect couple

[00:20:27] perfect you know like they didn't talk about their mistakes or their flaws often so I really don't know that much about their childhoods other than I mean I know basics my dad grew up in a

[00:20:39] very like standard Catholic family just kind of Sunday morning Catholics you know you show up you go to mass he was raised by a single mom and my mom was raised very religious her parents actually

[00:20:50] immigrated over from England so they were super Christian she grew up in a very Christian home and when I know when her and my dad met her parents didn't want her marrying someone like out of

[00:21:01] the Christian faith so my dad actually converted to Christianity in order to marry my mom and I think he actually feels like Christianity in a lot of ways saved him he had like a you know

[00:21:14] a rougher childhood single mom poverty and you know Christianity for a lot of people like this is where it's like the hook line and sinker they look for people that are vulnerable that are

[00:21:25] struggling and that's their lifeline you know they sell it to them as a lifeline and I think that's what Christianity ended up being for my dad and so I almost think the people that

[00:21:38] choose Christianity as an adult on their own become more ingrained in it than the people that were indoctrinated into it because they've actually chosen it they have made a choice that like this is there like this is the truth this is what they believe they like chose it

[00:21:57] for themselves as an adult and I've watched him over and over again defend his faith like there is no budging him because he is so rock solid and you know on some level I respect that I'm like

[00:22:09] you know what like you chose this for yourself and you actually like live it in and out like you're so solid and the fact that this is your belief versus the people there to just like

[00:22:21] you know like me I was indoctrinated into it and I'm like well I believe this because my parents do like it's whatever so yeah I feel like my dad on some levels like very very very religious

[00:22:32] because that was his choice and he chose it and in a way like we're afraid to say we made the wrong choice you know like it's scary to make that choice and then later in life be like you know what

[00:22:42] I messed up and I think that's really really hard for a lot of people and I know my dad and I know that would be a massive hit to him to ever be like I actually don't agree with this anymore

[00:22:55] I'm dying to know about your departure out of it all but before we get to that when you look back at this time before your divorce what were the other things that you see as being culty other

[00:23:06] than what you've said already like isolating you from the rest of the world and a very specific doctrine I mean the isolation was huge like looking back at that just and I think and I

[00:23:18] think just like the repetition of things you we woke up every day and I can recite so many chapters of the Bible to you all it's not even funny like it's just like ingrained in my brain

[00:23:31] and we would wake up in the first hour of every day would be scripture memory and I look back at stuff like that and I'm like why like that's just so weird and also the we grew up where

[00:23:46] we were not allowed to really ask questions like and again my other siblings probably have way different experience but for me growing up if my parents said something that we didn't agree with

[00:23:57] we had to be like if we wanted to say something back we'd have to ask may I appeal you know like like here in front of a judge or something and they could either say yes or no and so

[00:24:09] that felt very culty to me looking back you know where you're just like you don't even get free say with your thoughts or opinions is it still like that no it's not and my younger siblings like being raised totally different but also the control over who I dated

[00:24:28] what we weren't even allowed to date it was called courtship you know you don't date you court which is basically dating with the intent to marry someone there's no messing around you know like you if you court someone you are marrying them so my parents picked out

[00:24:41] my first boyfriend for me at 16 and we were courting and I had to write down a list of 10 boundaries surrounding this relationship with this person they picked out for me and some of them you know

[00:24:55] were like no no being in the car after dark no this is so silly but like no no interlacing handholds like open palm handholds because like you know god forbid interlacing hands was very

[00:25:08] like sexually tempting you know if you're in your bedroom leave the door open whatever it was a list of like 10 boundaries that I was supposed to uphold in this relationship and I had to give it to my dad

[00:25:22] and he printed off 10 copies and gave them to every other dad in our home church group they were to hold me accountable and you know as a 16 year old just having strange men like have this inside intimate knowledge to a relationship you didn't even choose for yourself

[00:25:43] some of it having to do with physical boundaries surrounding your body and them having this list and them having the freedom to approach you at any time and be like oh hey like how you doing on

[00:25:54] this boundary like that is messed up I look back at that it's messed up and you know I went through this program called passport to purity where I basically had to sign a contract with my parents

[00:26:05] at the end between me them and god saying you know I you know stay sexually pure until marriage but it was this whole weekend away with my mom where I had to listen to cassette tapes and do experiments

[00:26:16] like one of them was you know how you fold up a paper and you can cut out and make a paper snowflake when you open it up so one of them was this paper heart a cutout of a paper heart

[00:26:26] my mom told me to fold it up and she's like start making little cuts into it with some scissors she gave me and then she's like okay stop like open the heart back up there's obviously a bunch of holes

[00:26:36] in it and she's like this is every time you give yourself away intimately to someone before marriage and that could be a kiss like I'm not even talking you know sexual intercourse like it

[00:26:47] could literally be just giving away any part of your body to someone before marriage and she's like these holes represent a piece of you that you will never ever be able to give your

[00:26:57] husband one day because you've given yourself and that sits with you you know like I will literally never forget that and so all of these things looking back on I was like I was in a low

[00:27:08] key cult like my whole life was chosen for me was picked out for me was controlled regulated and yeah this is the golden age of cult recovery the more we speak up and share our stories the more

[00:27:24] we realize we are not alone your voice and your story can empower others this is sara and I'm proud to be a founding collaborator of the hashtag I got out movement learn more at I got out.org

[00:27:46] I know you haven't a listened to any other podcast but specifically ours I'm going to tell you about a segment that we have in our podcast it's called that chaps my ass and it's things that

[00:27:57] did you really just chop your ass and for me when I hear that about like these men in your community like knowing about your dating at 16 it just feels really could chaps my ass

[00:28:06] in a very big way but also just this feels really icky like it's so icky so icky it's such a violation of like self yeah yeah so I have a question are you alone in this are your siblings

[00:28:18] with you do are you talking to them like what's the so that is a hard question to answer I I'm estranged from some of my siblings and not in the sense like you know we don't talk but we

[00:28:32] talk on a very limited basis very few of my siblings I don't even know if they've deconstructed themselves a lot of my siblings are very defensive of my parents and you know it's hard like when

[00:28:45] you're when you're the first one in a group or a family to kind of start to break that generational trauma up you know you're kind of like an outcast and I know my siblings love me but I am not

[00:28:59] close to most of them on a level to where I have any idea how they view their childhood or what they think of these things now and and I think also me you know I came out much later in life

[00:29:14] and I think that also through my whole family for a loop you know I went through a divorce I came out at like I don't even know how old I was 27 26 27 and half of my family even my siblings

[00:29:27] included you know think that if you're in the lgbt q community you are majorly sinning and you know that's against their belief so that's been another you know separate road to navigate

[00:29:40] and I also currently don't talk to my parents so I cut them off what is the date like three months ago I haven't talked to him in 90 days what happened there so my youngest sister like I said there's a

[00:29:52] 19 year age gap but we're bookends like she literally was born the day before me almost exactly 19 years apart wild and we're the oldest and the youngest so we call each other you know

[00:30:03] we're bookends of the family and I wanted to fly her out to visit because my parents moved out west like we grew up in Louisville but they moved out west I think like eight nine years ago and I was

[00:30:15] married at the time so I stayed and my whole family left and I had once COVID hit and everything I hadn't seen some of my younger siblings in years and you know when when they're that young they

[00:30:27] grow up so fast I'm like man I haven't seen my sister since she was 10 and she's 13 now and almost 14 I asked my parents I was like hey can I you know fly my youngest sister out here like she's never seen

[00:30:40] our home that we live in that we've been in for almost five years and you know she goes everywhere all the time she's flying to Mexico with best friends and their family and flying across the

[00:30:50] country to stay with my other sibling and his wife and I was like I have southwest points saved up let me you know fly her out just for a long weekend spring break whatever and they were like

[00:31:01] okay well we need to talk about it like I need to talk with your dad I need to talk with your mom and I was immediately like okay that's not good long story short they ended up saying they

[00:31:12] wanted to come with her one of them would be accompanying her on this trip she wouldn't be allowed to spend the night she'd have to say it in Airbnb with one of my parents and they

[00:31:22] didn't want her quote-unquote digesting four to five days of my relationship without them being around to answer questions and that right there was just latent evidence of their homophobia to me and I

[00:31:37] have never in my life felt like you know I was treated like a predator by my own parents and that was a moment that will be like seared into my mind forever I just was like you are telling

[00:31:51] I was like you do realize you're also speaking to your child about your other child like that's so hard yeah and that was the straw that broke the camel's back I have been through so much

[00:32:03] with them in the last five years since coming out and I have tried so hard and at some point I was just like you know what I need to choose myself and my family that I have now I cannot

[00:32:15] keep trying and putting us through this harm over and over again and for what like you know I really hope that one day you know things change like there's always that little bit of hope in me because

[00:32:27] I'm their kid I feel like any kid at some level wants that that love and validation from their own parents and you know spend 90 days and I blocked their numbers just their cell phone

[00:32:38] numbers so they couldn't send me anything that I didn't want to see but they have my email they have six other kids that if they really needed to reach me they could and it is this is the crazy part

[00:32:51] about religion to me and how it feels so culty that parents could choose a belief system over their own kids like I'm telling you if this was my kid that did this to me I would have emailed

[00:33:04] them the second I found out they blocked me and been like I am so like what can I do right I will give you space but I want you to know that I'm here and I love you and I'm so sorry for whatever I did

[00:33:17] to cause this between us and like I am here and ready to listen and I'm just I it bewilders me every day that I have not heard from them I'm like I you know I it's so sad every day

[00:33:31] it's it's terribly sad but also the most piece I've ever been at which is such a bitter sweet feeling for me as a human you know have they ever been that way with you ever been like oh you mean

[00:33:44] like I'm here for you under other circumstances and like is it a realistic expectation or so I was just talking about this with my fiancee they have never been there in the way of just

[00:33:58] being there it's always we're here but this is what you need to do about this we're here and under these stipulations you know with my divorce like they're like we're here for you but here's a

[00:34:11] counselor you need to go see to fix your marriage here's a book about how the grass isn't greener on the other side here's a whole bunch of people you need to talk to to convince you that this

[00:34:20] is the worst mistake of your life so like you know it's the uncann it's the it's the conditional unconditional love yeah you're a problem to solve and not someone exactly yeah yes but I'm like I have

[00:34:31] never had my parents just comfort me on just a basic like you know nervous system to nervous system level just like comfort me as a human and and just hold me when I'm crying and just say it's okay

[00:34:47] like everything's okay and that that's never happened and I think now as an adult I kind of feel hardened in a sense like you know having that your whole life I see that show up in my

[00:34:59] relationships and how I react to other people that are so open and emotional and vulnerable I feel that kind of I'm like I have to take a step back for a second and be like it's okay to let them

[00:35:12] just be and you know it's I sit in my own uncomfortability and you know try not to project any of my stuff onto them because like I'm still learning how to like be open and emotional

[00:35:26] and like be okay with being uncomfortable. Do you feel like when in those moments you have like old programming that pops up or like what stops you from being there? Absolutely I think that

[00:35:39] you know having any emotions growing up was viewed as something that needed to be fixed you know if I was having mental health isn't really a thing in a lot of religious communities

[00:35:51] you know you're like for me it was oh you're having a bad attitude day like you need to ask Jesus to give you a good attitude so. Thanks Jesus. Anxiety and depression don't exist. Didn't Jesus give me the bad attitude? Jesus fixed my attitude?

[00:36:08] Not only Satan gives you bad attitude. Oh Jesus. I'm glad maybe. That's from the devil. Now I can believe my grumpyness on Satan I'm so happy. Yeah you know Satan's escape goat for everything bad in life.

[00:36:21] I'm curious I would imagine being gay was a catalyst for you to wake up because I imagine every corner when you had those impulses you just felt squashed and probably not a whole lot

[00:36:31] outlets to discuss it so. Oh no. I imagine that felt like a cage in that community. Absolutely there's this term called compet or compulsive you know like being compulsively heteronormative

[00:36:44] meaning when you grow up in an echo chamber and you're being told what is correct and that's all you see examples of you instinctively just naturally go in that direction because anything outside of

[00:36:58] that norm is just you know you're treated as an outcast like it's not good you lose everything if you choose anything outside of that box you've been raised in and so I really think I struggled with compulsive like heterosexuality growing up because that's what I was raised around.

[00:37:15] That's all I knew and it wasn't until I was out on my own and really like you know what does Morgan believe? What does Morgan want? I've never asked myself that it's always been oh what

[00:37:27] are my parents like what is what do they think is best for me? What are they saying is next in my life and so I say being out in the world but like truly being out in the world and I think

[00:37:38] honestly becoming a yoga teacher almost saved me in a way because I was opened up to so many other belief systems. I mean like yoga is rooted in a completely different belief system and so going

[00:37:52] through my teacher training even I felt very defensive of my Christian faith at that time. I was still a Christian and this was the first time I was hearing teachings of really like other

[00:38:04] religions and belief systems and I remember walking out of my yoga class. I was so offended and like you know self-righteous with my nose up in the air like oh this is not the truth this is not the

[00:38:14] way they're just like spreading lies in my yoga teacher training like I couldn't even listen to another viewpoint or belief system because it's been so ingrained in me that like this was the truth this is the ultimate truth the only right way anyone else is lost you should

[00:38:30] you know be like oh bless your heart like you have no idea that you know what you're believing is wrong just type of attitude so yeah just being like I look back and I'm like oh my gosh my first

[00:38:42] yoga teacher training was really that true window of being taught for the first time how other people live in their culture and what they believe and that just opened up a whole door of kind

[00:38:54] of curiosity and being like if I'm gonna be a yoga teacher I better get off my high horse real quick and get on a level of being open to hearing other people's beliefs because like I'm not

[00:39:07] going to be teaching people that are all the same as me and up to that point I'd really only ever been around people that were the same as me good for you that's that's amazing thank you

[00:39:19] what kind of yoga were you practicing at this time I'm curious tangent I did a 200 hour and just like vinyasa and since then I've taken so many other trainings I have like 800

[00:39:29] hours and different styles of yoga and I think I'm just kind of ultimately figured out my own weird style I don't even think it has a name Sarah you like how about Abhinavanasana that's the one you

[00:39:39] like Hurtita has to pet a gustasana I said that the other day I butchered all these things when I go to class with her I was like Sarah are we gonna do the yoga?

[00:39:53] all the Sanskrit I'm just doing all of it I'm like I drag Nipita yoga I drag it I love it I mean my listeners I like it too but I have to do very non-culti yoga like I can't I can't do Kundalini

[00:40:03] or bitch yeah okay so that's a whole other crossover y'all like I discovered later okay so this is I think it's so fascinating when you get out of one belief system it's so easy

[00:40:16] to jump right into another because it's your comfort zone we see it all time since it's different right you think sense is different it's like it's different it's not what I came from but like

[00:40:27] as I've actually gotten further out of the yoga community I honestly like how people don't like calling themselves Christians anymore if they're a decent human I in the same way at this point kind of hate calling myself a yoga teacher because the woke spiritual community has also

[00:40:45] really brought itself a bad name and there's so many crossovers between fundamentalist type religions and this woke spirituality culture that we have now where we have just a bunch of you know very big egos telling people that this is the right way to live and

[00:41:06] they're not going to find that in themselves they have to find it in someone else or outwardly and it's been really interesting to deconstruct from Christianity and then years later also start deconstructing from that ultra spiritual community that I was really ingrained in for a few years

[00:41:26] I'm like whoa like hindsight is so weird because I totally thought I was you know just like coming out of Christianity and learning all these like worldly like actual truths and beliefs and then

[00:41:39] you know fast forward even years down the road and I'm like oh my gosh I jumped from one belief system to another that is such a key great awareness and we see it all the time we call it cult hopping

[00:41:51] that's so legit I mean it's it's a thing it's a thing it is a thing the doctrine might not be as you know historical say like Christianity but it's equally as us versus them ish and righteous

[00:42:05] dogmatic it is it's dogmatic it's it's it usurps the very principles that they're pretending to champion and yes it demands obedience that it's worst yes so yeah we don't we really don't like

[00:42:18] to be told what to think no even if that way is a great way just stop telling me it's like we figure it out on my own well yes the problem here's the here's the problem is when people get

[00:42:30] their you know belief heroin from one side they tend to give a hall pass to the person that shares their belief and don't necessarily hold them accountable for the process of how they're enforcing their belief and the force behind those belief is the problem it's not the belief

[00:42:46] itself right yeah does that make sense yes so I'm super sensitive to like even if someone is saying something I agree with it's how they're saying it and how they're going about it that I just

[00:42:57] have like my flags go up I just go I don't I don't I'm not sure yet yeah you know that makes sense yeah because it's one thing to just like share what you believe from like a genuine place but I feel

[00:43:08] like most people are sharing it because they feel they have to tell you about it or convert you or their way as the way I very rarely meet people that are a part of a belief system of

[00:43:21] any kind that don't think theirs is like literally the way well they chose it so I wouldn't they right that's right it comes back to the choice that freedom of choice like you can't admit

[00:43:34] like and if they do think it's wrong they're definitely not admitting it to you right yeah unless it happens on an international stage in your forested exactly yes which is another lesson hey there listener hope you're enjoying this episode and that you're remembering to hydrate stretch

[00:43:54] and unclench your jaws sometimes listening to conversations about heavy topics can really make you tighten up you know and remember a little bit culty loves you also come hang out with us on

[00:44:04] patreon after you finish this episode it's fun over there fun is good and now here's a brief message from our sponsors so you've deconstructed from two culty things yes two culty things I honestly

[00:44:20] like yeah it's so weird it's like I thought for sure Christianity was going to be the only one and yeah then here we are and you know you hear about all the abuse from people placed in positions of

[00:44:32] power in these institutions and stuff and that is rampant in the yoga community you know these gurus these teachers again that think they know what is best and have had all of this you know

[00:44:46] they're put up on a pedestal and it's devastating to see how many people have been hurt a lot of them are like 23 24 yes reciting this sarah sarah knows my whole stick around this like i've done it

[00:44:58] before when we would go to yoga class I even I had a web series where I did an episode and it was basically kind of having fun with that like nippy like nippy sort of jock meathead guy

[00:45:09] going to a yoga class and the teacher's like easy easy i mean no not you but like playing that character i was playing it's character and the teacher being like oh we were talking about the kula

[00:45:20] is it kula or not i was all of him it was like you know she was like let's rub our hands together and then we're gonna touch each other and like we're gonna create kula which is sand script for

[00:45:29] community and it was just really forced you know the one was like that thought you have in your head about i'm not good enough i'm not i'm like wait a minute whoa whoa whoa whoa i wasn't thinking that

[00:45:40] like and it's just like this whole like don't put that on me don't project you now i am jesus great yeah that'd be like what if you think you're too good i was like i was like i'm having the exact opposite problem right now i think i'm awesome

[00:46:00] either way it's just the ego rearing it's ugly yes i was like yes yep and it's interesting because there's this whole concept of emptying yourself like the emptying of yourself and i'm like you

[00:46:17] know the the having the feeling of their you know your your outputting so much like the empty of self and i'm like you have to have some self i was like people are emptying themselves so much

[00:46:31] that they're actually not aware to others at all they're so involved with self thinking that they're emptying themselves that they've completely lacked awareness to look outwards at how they are affecting others by tapping into like this this wokeness and it's just it's so interesting because

[00:46:54] i've watched it happen to people like you know that we're close to and it's there's nothing that you can say you know there's nothing probably people could have said to you and i don't

[00:47:04] want to speak for you but for me anyways like when i was in like enveloped in christianity and in the thick of it there was a nothing anyone could have said to me to talk me out of it

[00:47:15] and it's not until you come to like that own realization or something happens where it's just like you know that was a straw that broke the camel's back like that was the moment it happened and

[00:47:24] i've had to kind of relinquish that that wanting to you know when you're out of it when the veil has lifted you just want to drag everyone else with you and you know i've kind of had to like

[00:47:37] you know come to peace with that that those people you know may never and if they do it certainly not going to be because i told them to yeah but any amount of force is is kind of like

[00:47:48] i always i always watch my impulses to use force yeah because i think that's exactly what you get back it's surprising to me that you haven't heard our podcast because what you just said is wouldn't

[00:47:57] it be always telling me because i'm still trying to drag people out of the wreckage and he's like it's not going to be you sara not going to be you and well it's it's not going to be you

[00:48:08] in in the sense of like remember what it was like when you were in like you just said like the best thing you can do is just play in a little seed and be a different example in a

[00:48:17] different path exactly requires a little thought nuggets so that requires so much patience and so much discipline to to do that because you want to scratch that itch and scratching that itch

[00:48:30] solves your problem not theirs it says i know well and honestly i think that's why my instagram has become such an open journal for me to share my thoughts because like it does scratch that itch

[00:48:42] like i'm getting all these words out and things i want to say and you know what if someone happens to read it that is in that and if all it does is plant that seed plant that thought nugget then

[00:48:53] i have hope one day that maybe they'll loop back to that and be like huh because that's what did it for me well that's your power that's your superpower don't think about it

[00:49:02] i hope so i really like to think that my writing is my superpower yes oh i just remember being super christian but also being an influencer on instagram and having people approach me about very problematic things like me traveling over to kenya and uganda on these short term

[00:49:23] unaffective you know mission strips full of white saviorism and thinking you're going over there again forcing your beliefs on a community that didn't ask for it and i was 27 when i went on

[00:49:39] my last one not that that was only five years ago and i had so many people start to approach me about how problematic it was and i am over here feeling like how dare you like i am helping people i am

[00:49:52] you know this is what i've been taught as good as what is good but the more people reached out to me i was very very defensive and then but i sat on it you can't not sit on it you

[00:50:05] can't have so many people approach you about the same thing and not reflect back on it and be like you know i wonder why so many people have all the similar like issues and problems with like

[00:50:19] what i'm doing as a person and i think that was the first time i actually really really reflected on why i believed what i believed and started critically thinking about it because you know

[00:50:32] you're not taught to critically think that's another huge issue growing up in cults or super fundamentalist families is you are not taught critical thinking you're taught this is what you believe this is how it is this is how the world is and you're not to ask questions

[00:50:46] and so learning critical like free thinking as an adult has been hard and also very like you know incredibly powerful for me and i think that that last mission trip i went on five

[00:51:00] years ago was the first time i really truly asked myself like why am i upholding these beliefs and who are they helping so you became an influencer through yoga but you were still christian at

[00:51:14] this time or where what's the where is your yes yeah okay i was still calling myself a christian because like at that point i wasn't going to church or super like you know was dedicated as my

[00:51:26] parents were and you know once i moved out i kind of found my own vibe with it like my own way but i definitely still called myself a christian because i didn't know anything else and at that

[00:51:37] point i wasn't comfortable saying no i don't believe in god like that felt i honestly thought at that point i was gonna get like struck down still there's like that fear in you like you

[00:51:46] cannot say that out loud circling back to i just was curious about how like with your following on instagram social media that came from your yoga but you were still christian yes and then and then

[00:51:56] you deconstructed it and you did that publicly on instagram yes so they've been through a wild ride with me i've been i guess you could call it influencing or whatever but basically my job

[00:52:05] my full-time job has been instagram for a decade now wow and that started with yoga and just sharing my progress and my account grew in a year from like 200 followers to 100k and then it just

[00:52:19] kind of snowballed i've you know made my way up to almost 600 000 followers over the course of these few years and just sharing my yoga practice and at that time i was still very much a christian

[00:52:31] you know i was very typical kind of you know sheltered white girl yoga teacher who was a christian and just sharing you know all my bible verses and probably like toxic positivity on the

[00:52:44] internet and going on mission trips and but the following that i originally cultivated was a lot of those similar people christians you know people that looked like me young women and so i really i mean i've lost 300 000 followers since deconstructing and coming out and and i get it

[00:53:06] you know so you lost half your following i did wow i did yes and i you know i'm grateful for it because numbers are just numbers and they're not going to support you anyways whether they're

[00:53:17] showing up as a number or not but it is you know like it still affects you on some level just like wow like especially coming out you're already and i'm already getting so much hate from my

[00:53:27] family at that point from friends that thought they knew me and like just to see you know your online community kind of get cut in half it's definitely a blow and it's like wow like just

[00:53:38] because of who i fell in love with you know like i it's hard to wrap your mind around but yeah my community has watched me get married they've watched me get divorced they've watched me be in another really toxic relationship they've watched me deconstruct christianity they've

[00:53:54] watched me come out they've watched me start to be more of an activist and talk about things that are hard and uncomfortable and i don't know if a lot of people like that it's actually really

[00:54:04] hard to maintain like an income on social media and be an activist i don't really know if that's like i'm really noticing that more and more as i speak out against things like people don't like to be

[00:54:16] uncomfortable well also you know we're in a we're in a volatile time where a lot of loss and translation on social media they don't get probably a good impression of your character and

[00:54:27] heart it's easy to hate the content of what you're not saying as opposed to being sensitive to the origin of it and where it might be coming from yeah so polarized right now oh also like it is

[00:54:38] it's it's different than meeting someone in a coffee shop that you have different beliefs than have an exchange with them and then reconsider it in over time right now there's this demand for changing your thoughts right now on social media and then a belittling of people

[00:54:54] if they're not obedient to certain narratives and so i think i think i think if people even get a impression of your heart and mind i think you know you'll be fine you'll be fine i think that's

[00:55:04] why it's so important to keep sharing because of what you just said like tone is lost over text people are so quick to you know cancel culture i'm like i don't believe in that you know

[00:55:16] people are actually people that may hold different beliefs that want to learn are terrified they're terrified to say the wrong thing and it takes time that's the other thing changing your belief system takes time you know it does and that's why sharing stories are so important because we

[00:55:32] connect on that human level of we all have a story and an experience i need to connect you with the hashtag i got out community okay yes it's all it's all sharing your story and getting out of things

[00:55:44] and not right now sarah we're in the middle of an interview we can do i know i know thanks babe just like it wait so did you wish to get married yet or i don't need to postpone

[00:55:56] not yet so we gosh we have changed things up so many times and i think i say it's probably another struggle which is being a queer couple you know like the wedding planning process wasn't

[00:56:05] as joyful as we wanted it to be just because of complications with so many people you know not agreeing with us and family and at the end of the day also very expensive to be honest like just

[00:56:17] wow like that's not proprietary to queer couples just to say no our wedding was also very expensive just a little flat holy moly yeah the financial cost and i'm like great if that's your priority

[00:56:31] to spend on that one day then like go for it that's awesome but i think what it came down to is we'd only invited 30 people and it was still like ah gosh probably like 40k from what we'd already

[00:56:42] just like estimated yeah and we're like you know what yeah it's just i don't know so we've decided to elope and we're really really excited about it we actually like decided at two in the morning

[00:56:54] we were just sitting in bed together and we were like oh elope like and we both just got so giddy and happy and it was the first time i think that we actually made a choice for ourselves

[00:57:04] because again at the end of the day like tell me anyone just like tell me to my face you planned a wedding without thinking about anyone else like guarantee you didn't i think it's impossible

[00:57:15] maybe what do you call our wedding which one the second we got married twice that's a different story but what do you call ours are well both of the weddings what do you call it party

[00:57:25] whose wedding was it oh it was your mom's yeah exactly exactly i'm like i just want to be up on a mountaintop like just the two of us and maybe like our photographer and just say our vows

[00:57:39] to each other i don't even want to worry about an efficient like you can go to the court this isn't going to be a christian wedding oh my god no we're definitely gonna have like you know

[00:57:49] the chapter of love read out loud at our wedding for sure i love it if you want i'll give you Keith Ranieri wrote for us don't do that don't do that oh my god it's traumatizing we did

[00:58:03] we did renew our vows five years later a couple of summers ago when i was pregnant with ace yeah that was really important and needed i mean yeah i can't imagine like yeah it was very tainted but

[00:58:14] i'm very excited for you eloping although i'm sad thank you i'm sad that you won't have a party that we could attend but i know we just met i know i you know what we have thought about

[00:58:25] we're like maybe we'll do a party or something after you know like i get together where we can like celebrate with the people we do want there but i am excited for the ceremony like just to be

[00:58:36] the two of us out in nature with our dogs that sounds perfect and i think that just a little by the way i'm going to start another podcast called unsolicited advice so here's my unsolicited advice for you is she just stopped giving it to me

[00:58:54] please start it advice and she's gonna be giving advice to me on it the entire time right now for you morgan okay is that you could you might not ready this because you might feel like it's

[00:59:05] selling out or something but i bet you would have somebody in your in your like one of your followers or in your through your influencer world that would sponsor your wedding oh you're not wrong there like we've already had people reach out and it's so sweet like honestly

[00:59:20] it's so sweet we were actually i felt bad because i was going through a follower for our invitation she did this beautiful like hand pressed like embossed it was just they were gorgeous and she

[00:59:32] was someone you know what she she shot her shot i had a lot of respect for people that do that those like send an email and just like promote their business and i'm like good for you because

[00:59:41] like you never know who's going to say yes and we ended up like using one of my followers for originally for like our invitations and it's so cool like i actually love that part of social media

[00:59:53] being able to connect with people being able to promote other small businesses like what an awesome opportunity i love it it's a it's a real honor when you can do it like consciously

[01:00:03] and yes at the same time it is scary because like we've we've mentioned people that we like and then people are like don't you know that they follow this person so they're bad and we're like

[01:00:12] i know it's so hard instagram's a wild wild west it really is and you've been in it for 10 years that's impressive i feel like you're it's changed a lot is it i mean like i remember well i'm like

[01:00:26] stories are so new like i remember in instagram was like you literally just got to post a picture right like that's it just a photo and then it was like oh 15 second videos and then i remember

[01:00:38] when they rolled out 60 second videos and only certain influencers had access to those you know and then stories came out and it just evolved so much like from what it used to be because i literally

[01:00:48] grew my following just off of like i would do these little grids of yoga pose tutorials and it was like a six cube grid and photos one through six would be a progression of like how to get into a

[01:01:00] yoga pose and that's how i grew my instagram is wild and it's wild to look back on yeah because it has changed so much and it's been cool though it's been cool to be like a part of the ride

[01:01:11] and also not the irony is not lost to me just the the concept of like followers you know and how hilarious right i know it just feels so weird how many followers i know are we leading our own

[01:01:24] cult yes amend mentel talks about that a lot in her book cult i should not sure if you've read it but i highly recommend that book okay perfect oh the other one i was wondering if you'd read

[01:01:36] two more actually are we doing the answer list of advice this is more unsolicited advice those are just books i think that that more like are wondering if you've read is educated by tarah westover yeah so good right amazing she's a dream guest oh that would be amazing

[01:01:50] i was gonna say have you read sex cult none yes yeah we interviewed love we interviewed her yeah you did okay i might have to listen to that one if you liked sex cult none we also loved

[01:02:02] another book about children of god and it was called uncultured by daniella masonic young i'll send you these links so you don't forget yes please and that's a she's super cool do you like to listen to audible

[01:02:15] or you like to read books i like to read you oh you mentioned that one i when i sent my right did mine come by the way it did i got yes i literally just got it like two with the beanie it's so i

[01:02:24] can't i'm so sad now that summer because i love beanies and i'm like you can't wait to wear this you're like aware it when i get to be like what is that you're like i'm just a little bit culty

[01:02:32] i've been in a few calls yeah it's fine i have followers no big deal no bigs if he's just like moving on over there one more book we're just like off on a dance this is where we're starting

[01:02:43] a book club have you read wayward by alice gretchen no she's x evangelical alice and daniella and faith have all been guests on our podcast we do have a good reads account

[01:02:55] with all the little bit culty books but those three are amazing and and and uh yeah alice is x evangelical and has gone through a whole she talks a lot about the purity culture and and now

[01:03:05] she's just like owning her sexuality and she's a playboy bunny incredible amazing yeah it's good for her game of thrones it's a book yeah yeah yeah it's game of thrones just throw them books out

[01:03:18] war and peace the hotel story i have read war and peace i got halfway through it my belief the count of montaic risto those are tomes well i i feel like we could just keep doing this for a

[01:03:30] while but i want to be mindful of your time and say well let me ask you for those people living under a social a social rock where do people where could people find you so on instagram

[01:03:40] finding morgan tyler and then my website is just morgan tyler dot com so super easy my name and if you want to pass on one nugget of thought nugget of wisdom to our listeners

[01:03:53] what do you want people to know the most if you could like give them an idea to put in their pocket hmm oh man so many you could do a few i think the big thing is is giving yourself permission

[01:04:06] to change every day because i really just think that is what keeps people stuck for so long is not giving themselves the grace or the permission to continue changing continue evolving kind of

[01:04:20] what we were talking about earlier getting over that it is kind of a hit you know to your ego when you feel like you've figured things out and then like admitting you know like hey actually

[01:04:31] i don't think that anymore or but i feel like it just makes you so much stronger as a person and beautiful and well rounded and open to keep admitting like i'm still learning and i'm

[01:04:42] still changing and hopefully we all continue changing our whole life so i think just giving yourself that grace and that permission to change and also knowing it doesn't have to be rushed like

[01:04:53] you are on your own timeline and nobody is going to slow you down or speed you up like that is that's your journey that was something that really helped me over the years was just like

[01:05:05] giving myself that that grace and i'd write it down and put it on sticky notes all around the house on the mirrors on the doors on my car like it's important to read that and remind

[01:05:16] that and create those new like neuro pathways in your brain absolutely right i love that i'm going to get my sticky notes out it's your sticky note i love your process i wish more people could

[01:05:25] adopt it it's it's been a great i told you i told you nip i told you i told you i told you it's been like seriously so cool to talk with you all i mean like honestly it really has i'm

[01:05:38] so cool to watch your all's journey as well thank you just really nice and honored to be here for us as well what a treat this is the best part of my job right now

[01:05:48] truly unsolicited advice no just connecting with like no i know i'm kidding people and hopefully one day we can do yoga in person i've never been to kentucky well until then we'll see you on the

[01:06:02] gram and please keep in touch and let us know how we can support you in any way thank you all thank you awesome to be here mwah this podcast is brought to you by citizens of sound a podcast

[01:06:16] production agency committed to developing and launching shows with gravity and depth from conception to launch citizens will partner with you every step of the way whether you're an actor business owner doctor fitness coach hairstylist or influencer connection is the future of

[01:06:31] communication jump on board with citizens of sound today and start your show go to citizensofsound.com and follow them on instagram and trust me it'll be a really good decision for you

[01:06:44] she's great right what a great vibe she has don't you think yeah no what a great heart and all that and her process is just one to emulate i think i really do hope we get to meet

[01:06:54] in person because she just seems really cool and i love yeah i do love the way that she's thought about things and and you invite yourself to her wedding i did invite myself to her wedding

[01:07:03] this is a little behind and they're eloping so you'd be like the only one there maybe i could be the photographer yeah get yourself in and i guess i just did announce the next podcast

[01:07:14] and solicited advice with sarah edmondson coming soon wherever you get your podcast i don't know i gotta get this one smooth you can outsource that you can outsource that advice to someone else

[01:07:24] it'd be great well i know that you said i should do it with like a partner other than you so i'm i'm holding auditions you're breaking up okay all right everybody connections lost go follow morgan taylor and tell her what you

[01:07:43] think of the episode and stay tuned for perhaps a live chat or something over on patreon with her as we debrief the the fallout has it worked hopefully not too much of a fallout by y'all thanks for sticking through to the end see you next week

[01:08:30] and if you're looking for our show notes or some sweet sweet swag or official albc podcast march or a list of our most recommended cult recovery resources visit our website at a little

[01:08:40] bit culty dot com and for more background on what brought us here check out sarah's page turning memoir it's called scarred true story of high scape nexium the cult that bound my life it's available on amazon audible narrated by my wife and at most bookstores a little bit

[01:08:55] talkhouse podcast and a trace 120 production we're executive produced by sarah edmondson and anthony nippy aims with writing research and additional production support by senior producer jess tardy we're edited mixed and mastered by our rocking producer will rutherford of

[01:09:10] citizens of sound and our amazing theme song cultivated is by john bryant and co-written by nigel aslan thank you for listening