Diet Wars: Wade T. Lightheart on Culty Nutrition

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[00:00:29] [SPEAKER_05]: This podcast is for informational purposes only

[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_05]: and should not be considered legal, medical, or mental health advice

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_05]: The views and opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_05]: and are not intended to malign any religion group, club, organization, business, individual, anyone, or anything

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm Sarah Edmondson

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm Anthony, air quotes Nippy Ames

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_05]: And this is A Little Bit Culty

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_05]: A podcast about what happens when things that seem like a great thing at first go bad

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Every week we chat with survivors, experts, and whistleblowers for real cult stories told directly by the people who live through them

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Because we want you to learn a few things we've had to learn the hard way

[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_09]: Like if you think you're too smart to get sucked into something culty

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_09]: You're already prime recruitment material

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_05]: You might even already be in a cult

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Oops, you better keep listening to find out

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Welcome to season six of A Little Bit Culty

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_09]: Welcome back ALBC fans

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Alright, we're gonna just call it right now

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_05]: We're gonna get it out in the open

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_05]: We know we're gonna take some shit for this interview

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Anytime we remotely mention nutrition or supplements or anything fitness related

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_05]: In conversations on the show

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_05]: We hear about it

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Even if it's just an innocent name drop about a protein shake that we love

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_05]: It trips some kind of alarm and we get angry notes

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_09]: We're not scared of your angry notes, are we Sarah?

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_05]: No, of course not

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_05]: We're so self-assured and solid in ourselves as people

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_09]: It kind of reminds me of the Eckhart Tolle episode, right?

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_09]: People felt like we were somehow being cult apologists by having Eckhart on the show

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Right, like they thought that...

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Like how is it possible that we are shining light on culty vibes in this new age spirituality space

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_05]: And then be cordial and chummy with somebody like Eckhart

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_05]: That was the grievance

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, something like that

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_05]: I would encourage all of our listeners to go back and listen to that episode as well

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Because I still stand that it was one of my favorite

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe I was a little bit fawny, a little bit like, you know

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_09]: No, I thought it was great

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_09]: It was just... there was no place to ask a question

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_09]: Anyway, it was a bit...

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Wade's not like that

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Wade is not like that, we promise

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_05]: He does have some really great sound bites

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_05]: But we haven't even said what we're talking about

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_09]: We are entering the food industry in a lot of ways, right?

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_09]: So, like topics like nutrition, wellness, and diet

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_09]: They're all hot buttons right now

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_09]: Especially if you go through your Instagram feed

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Everyone's trying to sell you something

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, and there's so many snake oil salesmen out there

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_05]: There's so many scams

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_05]: We see you juice plus

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_05]: So many factions

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_05]: And it gets divisive real quickly

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_05]: In fact, people can get a little culty about whatever they believe in

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_05]: As we know from this podcast

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Especially if it's about a diet

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_05]: In fact, I have been known to be quite righteous

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_05]: About various new ways of living in the past

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Including my diet

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_05]: I can own that, friends

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_05]: This does not give you license to text me

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_05]: About how annoying I've been in the past

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_05]: No, you're fine

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_09]: So today's guest, Wade T. Lighthart

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Knows all about the wars around this stuff

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_09]: Because he's the co-founder of Bioptimizers

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_09]: One of the hottest supplement brands on the market

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_09]: Full disclosure, Bioptimizers has also sponsored this show in the past

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Fuller disclosure, Bioptimizers has also sponsored

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Some controversial influencers

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_05]: That have been frequent targets of other cult awareness shows

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_05]: And watchdogs

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_09]: And full disclosure, Wade is a dear friend of ours

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_05]: So tell us about Wade, babe

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_09]: So Wade T. Lighthart is a certified sports nutritionist advisor

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_09]: And president director of education and co-founder of Bioptimizers

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_09]: As a plant-based and drug-free athlete

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_09]: For more than two decades

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_09]: Wade is a three-time national natural bodybuilding champion

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Who competed in both the IFBB Mystery Universe

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_09]: And the INBA Natural Olympia by the age of 31

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_09]: At the age of 50, Wade came out of retirement

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_09]: To win the Open Men's and Grand Masters Categories

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_09]: At the INBA Ironman International

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Then competed at the PNBA Natural Olympia

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_09]: Six months later, Wade successfully ran his first marathon in four hours

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_09]: And I also note that he's a vegan bodybuilder

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_05]: So we figured that this chat with Wade

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Would be a great opportunity to ask some of the questions we have personally

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And the questions that we get from time to time from our listeners

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Like how do you know if you're buying into something healthy

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Or drinking snake oil?

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_05]: And is it just us?

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Or have the health and wellness trends become even more culty than ever?

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_05]: And most importantly, with so many factions

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_05]: And influences and so much noise, especially on the Instagram feed

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Meat-eaters vs carnivores and keto vs paleo

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_05]: How do you figure out what's right for you

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_05]: If you just want to make some positive lifestyle changes?

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_09]: Wade's book, which he co-authored with his bi-optimizes co-founder Matt Gallant

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_09]: Has the culty title, The Ultimate Nutrition Bible

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_09]: So we didn't want to miss a chance to ask Wade for his take on diet and wellness wars

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_09]: And it's a wealth of knowledge

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Every diet you can imagine has been explored on this

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_05]: So without further ado, here's our interview with our dear and old friend

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, youthful, longtime friend, Wade T. Lightheart

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_09]: I was going to introduce him and ask him, you know

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_09]: You leave one cult, there's a lot of cults out there

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_09]: You're currently in the cult of marriage and about to be in the cult of fatherhood

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Which I'm in

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_09]: And it's a lovely cult

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Congratulations

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_09]: You can question it here and there

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_09]: How is it? How is married life? Congratulations

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_03]: What's interesting, you know, I just went through the ceremony a couple of weeks ago

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And we were discussing privately on a text message

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like there's a change in the algorithm of your decision-making process

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And there's an adaptive response

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, that's the same as whether you're doing, you know

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_03]: You're trying to get in shape or you're trying to do some medical protocol

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Or you're at a new career

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_03]: There are certain decision parameters that we make

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a lens we put on

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And part of that is cultural

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_03]: And the cultural expectations

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_03]: So in my case

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, Judeo-Christian, West

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Values

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And the institution of marriage and what that entails

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And then you've got your family lens and stuff

[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And so now, as a 52-year-old guy

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Which I never had to deal with that one before

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_03]: It was kind of like pushed out there surfacing

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, kind of like you hear about a cult

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_03]: But you don't actually interact

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And then you go and you're like, oh wow

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Like let's do this and let's do that

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And so now I'm in the adaptive phase, I would say

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_03]: To be frank

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_09]: You're installing the new filter

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_09]: Decisions have to go through

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_09]: Correct

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_09]: And that filter pushes back

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well yeah, it pushes back against the old programming

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever that was, or the old system

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Because that algorithm doesn't work anymore

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, it goes, you know

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And you get it when your wife looks at you and goes

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_03]: No, that's not gonna work in your life

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Nippy knows that like

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I do

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Listen Wade, our listeners will have heard your impressive bio

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_05]: By the time they get to this part of the conversation

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_05]: And your resume and all the things you've done

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_05]: And we could have like interviewed

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Sort of so many people who are speaking out about diets

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_05]: And culty connections

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_05]: But tell our audience why you are on our podcast

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_05]: How did we get to here if you want to

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Leave a little tapestry

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Like what's happening here?

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, I was thinking about this the other day

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I was like, how did this all start

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I realized you were

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just cool connection with Katrina

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Katrina and I were living together in Vancouver

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_03]: You were going to, I think her chocolate class or something

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Yep

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And then the whole genesis of what you guys were starting

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Happened, I think the first, one of the first meetings

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Was at our recreation

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, in the rec room

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Like literally borrowed our facility at the rec room

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And I really wanted to go because of the connection

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_03]: To what the bleep do we know

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_03]: What the bleep do we know

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And I thought, oh that guy is really cool

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I really like that movie

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And then just before the event happened

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Something came up in my mind

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Said no, I'm not going

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what it was

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Interesting

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And then later on

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I think a little bit later

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe eight months when you had ESP going

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, I went down to that

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And I saw all the

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_03]: And I want to make this really important to people

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_03]: So they understand

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_03]: There was a lot of positive

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Right

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Value added components

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I knew you guys

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I saw how integrous and motivated you were

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_03]: To help people and to support people

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_03]: In transformation

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_03]: There was a wonderful community

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_03]: So there is all of these good things that were

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Around that

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_03]: That I think gets lost in all the chaos

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And what happened was underneath

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's part

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Of the attractive process

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_03]: What attracts people to any culture

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_03]: There is an aspirational aspect

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_03]: That's not being dealt with in your prior life

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And you see people out there

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Living and doing and being a certain way

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And you guys are examples of that

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And the people around you were examples

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And they're like, hey

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_03]: They're talking some different language

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_03]: They're talking some different things

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_03]: It seems to be working

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_03]: What I'm currently doing

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Isn't giving me the results

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_03]: So I want to integrate whatever that algorithm is

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Into my own life

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_03]: My own operational system

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_03]: My own structure in order to achieve

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Or have or be what those individuals represent

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And so that's what happens

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And so I was mesmerized by all of it

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And then years later

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I think if I go back in time

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_03]: There just as before the big blow up happened

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Anthony invited me to another segment of this

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is a really cool group for men

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think there's a really devoid space now

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_03]: For men to be around men

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And to hold each other accountable in these things

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And he put this forth

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And I remember seeing a little video

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I was really excited about

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm doing this stuff

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I like the whole process and everything

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I saw a video with Keith

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Dealing with a particular person

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And because I wasn't totally a mess

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_03]: In the whole culture

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I was able to look at it at a lens

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_03]: That other people weren't

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And I saw him installing beliefs

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Into people in a question and answer thing

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_03]: In other words he wasn't listening

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_03]: He would listen a little bit

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Interjecting and override a program

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And I saw how sophisticated it was

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And you know

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_03]: This is what happens inside of

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_03]: What I call a thing called Guruitis

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_03]: So what constitutes the aspect of occult

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And I've had a lot of experience with it

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I had another friend, a client of mine

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Who was part of the whole

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Hubbard program with Scientology stuff

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And he was with Hubbard before

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Hubbard kind of as he said went dark

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And what you have is

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_03]: You have a person who's

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe producing a great result

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Who has created an architecture

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_03]: They probably have some values

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_03]: They've learned a lot of information

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_03]: They've got something that works for people

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And they build up the trust

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And value and integration

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_03]: So on the front side of everything

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_03]: You're going to see a set of values

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Or principles or actions

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_03]: That actually work in our effective

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's what attracts you in

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And there's nothing wrong with that

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_03]: But like all humans

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_03]: We have flaws

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And when you're dealing with

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_03]: A percentage of society

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Whether that's

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Sociopaths and psychopaths

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is somewhere between 1 and 3%

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Of society depending on

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And then there's degrees of that

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And if you add high IQ

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_03]: With that, then you're dealing

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_03]: With a level of sophistication

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_03]: That frankly most people

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Are not capable of discerning

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Until it's too late

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's how

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_03]: So many people get caught up

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_03]: In all of the good aspects

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And they are good and that's legitimate

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And all of the dark cults wrap themselves

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_03]: In a set of ideals and plans

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And everything that do actually work

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Until you get inside it

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And then that very slippery soap

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Where you get into that point

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Where you're going, I don't know about this

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_03]: But everything else has worked

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And I got to go along with it

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And then there's the reinforcement socially

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And who, and then there's the competition is

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Who is the greatest devotee

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Of the new person and then what happens

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Is the highest achievers

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Are the most likely people

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_03]: To fall

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Because they're so integrated

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And they're so good at doing that

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Then they become the orchestrations

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_03]: That the cult leader hides behind

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_03]: And I see this in the diet industry

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_03]: It's no different

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And I can get into that too

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_03]: But that's my mind

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I remember when everything blew up for you guys

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And I remember it was

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_03]: What happens when you're inside of that

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And you recognize the fallen guru

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_03]: The fallen icon of your industry

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_03]: There is a level of devastation

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's the dark night of the soul

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And then you start saying

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, am I corrupt? Have I done things wrong?

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And I remember when you guys were going through

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_03]: That deep emotional state

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, no, like I know you guys

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not part of that group

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_03]: I know how you operate

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I know what your values are

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I know the people around you

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And what they're doing

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I think you just found out

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_03]: This guy's a cult leader

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And then, and that's devastating

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And this is going to be problematic

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And I don't know what's going to look

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_03]: But I said your life is going to suck

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_03]: For the next five or ten years

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how long

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_03]: But if you stay with the truth long enough

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_03]: It'll work out

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I remember when the final judgment came through

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_03]: After all of that

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, Anthony and I have a lot of conversations

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_03]: About, you know, legal and politics and ideologies

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And I remember him saying, you know what?

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I got a little bit more faith in the justice system

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_03]: That eventually it served

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_03]: It actually worked in the final end

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_03]: But it was a hell of a journey

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_03]: That you guys had to go through to get there

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_03]: So kudos to you, you stuck with it

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And we're all a better place because of it

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Now you're doing great work of helping other people

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_03]: So that's a beautiful thing

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Also, you know, one of the things

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_09]: And thank you for your friendship during all that

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, I know I've told you that personally

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_09]: But you were one of the guys who showed up

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_09]: And reassured me

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Because your confidence gets shot after something like that

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_09]: Your internal world of your decision making is

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_09]: And those conversations we had in our patio

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Were great for me

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_09]: And to have a solid guy have my back

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_09]: At that time was great

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_09]: You said something interesting

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_09]: And I want to share this with our audience

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_09]: One of the texts I got from someone

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_09]: A good friend of mine I went to high school with

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_09]: She texted me after seeing all this

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_09]: And she said it's a shame that's how that guy

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_09]: Used his intelligence

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_09]: And to your point, like you can get one to three percent

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_09]: Of people, you know, the number there

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_09]: But one of them is going to be just

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't want to do good with this

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_09]: And they're going to want to do some bad with it

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_09]: And to your point, people don't see

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_09]: That they're doing bad until it's too late

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_09]: So well put

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Well put

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_05]: And again, I really appreciate your support

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_05]: During those times

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_05]: We figured out who our friends were

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_05]: When shit hit the fan

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_05]: And you've always been there for us

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Ever since the raw chocolate days

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_05]: At the beginning and to the end

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_09]: New York City event

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, well that was another thing

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_03]: That was so, that was so odd

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I think

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Was that the first time we met?

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_09]: That's the first time I met you

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_09]: And I saw you save the event

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_09]: And I was like, that guy's a good dude

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_05]: He didn't have to do that

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_05]: I brought Nippy to like a health and wellness

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Like a mini, it feels like a mini-ted type

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Of like speaking event

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_05]: And I knew you Wade

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_05]: And I was probably trying to still recruit you

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_05]: But I thought, oh I'll introduce him to Nippy

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_05]: And then they'll become friends

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean I was always subtly trying to do that

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_05]: But I also wanted to introduce you

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_05]: And then of course

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_05]: You both developed a friendship

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_05]: With the past stars

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Which I still approve of

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Because, you know

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Here we are

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Do I get a stamp?

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Do I get a stamp like a proof?

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_03]: You do

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Or a stripe or a sash or a star

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_03]: You're the first member

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_05]: The first member of our new cult

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_05]: But actually, you know

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_05]: One of the things

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Since I've known you this whole time

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_05]: One of my experiences of you

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Is somebody who really

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Gives everything you're all

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_05]: And you try new things

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_05]: And you're totally open

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is why I actually do remember

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Being surprised that you never tried ESP

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, and I'm glad you didn't

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_05]: But at the time I remember thinking

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Like he tries this

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_05]: He tries it

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_05]: You're such a learner

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And an avid

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Like

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Mini-scientist

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Is how I experience you

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_05]: As spiritual and nutrition scientist

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Pursuit of excellence

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Pursuit of excellence, yeah

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_05]: But amidst all that

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_05]: You have managed to not get

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Caught up in anything

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Particularly culty

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Like you take the tools

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_05]: And you put them in your life

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_05]: But you don't make the tools your life

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_05]: How have you managed to navigate this

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Culty world

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Which we're gonna get into

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Do you think?

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, a couple of things

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_03]: And I would say

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I read a book

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Called Power Versus Force

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Was written by Dr. David Hawkins

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And actually

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_03]: You gave me that book

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Got to meet Dr. David Hawkins

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's a beautiful map of consciousness

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And of course, being a psychiatrist

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_03]: He had to deal with all sorts

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_03]: If you get into some of his later books

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Beyond Power Versus Force

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Particularly one called Truth and Falsehood

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And one of the things he identifies in this

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Is narcissistic, messianic, megalomania

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And he was brought into

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_03]: As a psychiatrist

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_03]: To evaluate

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Psychopaths, sociopaths, mentally ill

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_03]: He was a consultant

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_03]: For a lot of spiritual organizations

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_03]: To see if someone was actually enlightened

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Or catatonic

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_03]: And some of the elements

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Of really high levels of schizophrenia

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Also are similar

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_03]: To states of enlightenment

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And you need someone that is very skilled

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And competent

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And he had both sides of the equation

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And so having read through that literature

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_03]: And studied it extensively

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And the first time I read Truth and Falsehood

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_03]: The book that he wrote

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_03]: It was so disruptive for my belief system

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I had to read it again

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I was like, how could that not be

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Like how would I

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And then it took me probably

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Three or four years

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_03]: To actually use that as a filter

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_03]: To determine who am I dealing with here

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And what are the traps

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Of fame, adulation, money, drugs

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_03]: There's booby traps in the map

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_03]: If you go up the levels of consciousness

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And what happens is

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_03]: As you become that guru type figure

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_03]: These are some of the subtle traps

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_03]: That seem to appear for everyone

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Whether they're head of a spiritual organization

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Whether they're a leader of an MLM company

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Or a CEO of a large executive function

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_03]: A social media foundation

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_03]: A government official

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And there are people in the world

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Many of them working for spy agencies

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Who are absolutely there

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_03]: To build confidence and to expose you

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_03]: To compromise you

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Then to coerce you

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And then to corrupt you

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And so we see so many people

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_03]: That go into positions of power

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we find out later

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_03]: That somehow they got lost

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Somehow they got corrupted

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Somehow they became evil

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_03]: So you have to have a little bit of humility

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And the humility is

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_03]: What characteristics do I possess

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_03]: That could also be exposed in that situation

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_03]: If I can see my own

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Then I have enough empathy to say

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's quite possible

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_03]: That that person has fallen for that

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_03]: So you've got to always go back

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_03]: To humility and recognize

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I have some of these characteristics myself

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_03]: What I'm seeing in the world

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Is some aspect of myself

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_03]: We all have the potential for excellence

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And we all have the potential

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_03]: For malevolence inside of us

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_03]: It comes with the human condition

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And under the right circumstances

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_03]: As Carl Jung pointed out

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_03]: You have to explore your shadow side

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_03]: That, yeah, you, myself, any one of us

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Could rationalize the most

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Highest things

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And most people don't want to look at that in themselves

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And if you can't look it in yourself

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_03]: You will not be able to see that in someone else

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Right

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, interesting

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_05]: It's funny you bring that up

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Because we've talked about that book before

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_05]: And then we got written to by a couple people

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Which happens every episode

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_05]: But this particular one was saying

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_05]: That that book was used as the sort of Bible

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_05]: In that particular cult

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Power versus force

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_05]: And specifically that truth

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_05]: That I do believe is a trueism

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_05]: That you just said

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Can also be used to abuse somebody

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_05]: If they say like, oh, hey

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_05]: There's something wrong here

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_05]: They will say, well that's your shadow side

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Correct

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_05]: It can be used to gaslight

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean?

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, there's a great aspect

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I remember that there's a

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_03]: So one of my other influential figures in my life

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Is a guy by Paramahansa Yogananda

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Some would argue he runs a cult

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_03]: That called the self-realization fellowship

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And if you look at his teachings

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Did he actually call it that?

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I think some people have called it a cult

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Or whatever

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I would say that the New England Patriots

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Is a cult

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, social media is like

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Culture is inside a cult

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_03]: So what constitutes that depends

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Of I think when things start turning dark

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And coercive to people

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_03]: That's the sign that you're probably

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_03]: A bad kind of cult

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_03]: In a problematic aspect

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Everything should always be an option

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_03]: In a choice, in a selection

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And you should never go against

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Something that feels uncomfortable

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Inside yourself

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Either it's uncomfortable because

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_03]: You're not ready

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Or it's uncomfortable because

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Somewhere deep within the moral ethical code

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Of yourself, you know it's not right

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Anyways, there was a conversation

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_03]: With him and his spiritual teacher

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And for those who don't know about Yogananda

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_03]: He didn't want to come to the West

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_03]: He didn't want to start an organization

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_03]: He wanted to go to the Himalayas

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And meditate in a cave

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_03]: And just be in bliss all of the time

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And then his teacher

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Said well, how about starting an organization

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_03]: To help people

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And he goes no, I don't want to run an organization

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever the leader does

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_03]: You'll eventually be criticized

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_03]: You'll be attacked vehemently

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_03]: And there'll be all sorts of branches

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_03]: That come out of it

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_03]: That will be distorting of your truth

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And he's like yeah, but do you want

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_03]: The whole divine channel for yourself?

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_03]: You want everything that you learned

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Wasn't a bunch of people that taught you

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And you're just gonna say

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's it, I'm not contributing anymore

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's a catch-22

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Now of course

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_03]: If you look at the history of Yogananda

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a great movie called Awake

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_03]: This guy was attacked vehemently

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_03]: He had his own people

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_03]: He went through a very similar process

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And you look at that and you go

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you guys have experienced that

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_03]: As leaders of an organization

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Advocates of personal development

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And change

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And somehow

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_03]: You get branded as evil or corrupt

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Or something wrong

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And I saw none of that

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_03]: In my experience to you guys

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_03]: But because of this one distortion

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like one drop of poison

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Pollutes the whole pond

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's unfortunate

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_03]: So in any case

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_03]: We always have to take everything with a grain of salt

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_03]: We always have to be discerning

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And you always have to keep people around you

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_03]: That will call you out

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_03]: When they're feeling disordered

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And we have to have enough humility

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_03]: To actually hear them out

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And consider other points of view

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And that becomes more and more difficult

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_03]: The more entrenched that you become

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And so when I was really deeply immersed

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_03]: With Yogananda's teachings

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I went to power versus fort

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I went to that

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And when he started explaining

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Some of the cult dynamics

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_03]: That start to occur

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Because he studied all these things

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_03]: He went to Sedona

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Where there's been a ton of cults come through here

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_03]: He studied what are the characteristics

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_03]: That create that

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_03]: What are the avenues

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And how to protect yourself

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Inside of the cultivation

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_03]: The deification of a personality

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And all of the, you know

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Do guterisms within that

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_03]: And the, you know

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_03]: The levels of

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I'm the best, you know

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Devotee of all

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And therefore that gives me authority

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_03]: To condemn everyone else

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, because of the nature of our ego

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And our desire to be the best that we can be

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_03]: So both of those things were very helpful

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And now I think I'm much better equipped

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_03]: To take what I need

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Extract the other stuff

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_03]: And move through life

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And I've been very blessed because of it

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_09]: One of the things I think

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_09]: That's made you less susceptible

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Of those things

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_09]: Is you've had a pretty clear vision

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_09]: For what you want to do in your life

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_09]: And your goals

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_09]: So, you know

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_09]: My opinion of you is that

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_09]: You've been able to do that

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_09]: Because you are focused on this

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_09]: And certain people will come into organization

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_09]: Go love this

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_09]: But I have a business to run

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm doing this

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_09]: It was a time

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_09]: You were committed to something else

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_09]: This was if anything

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Or the things that you've been in

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Were more supplemental

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_09]: In my experience, I mean

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you weren't going to give out

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Your vision of being this top level athlete

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_05]: And bodybuilding next to Arnold

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_05]: To go

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I guess you've done both

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Do these tools help me do that?

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, let's take a look

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_03]: At the sport of bodybuilding

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is a great example

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_03]: So when I'm 15 years old

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm living a horrible life

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_03]: In rural New Brunswick

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And here's this guy on television

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Bigger than life

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_03]: He's married to the Kennedys

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_03]: He's selling great, robust movies

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Of hyper-masculinity

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_03]: He's got all these muscles

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, like

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think people

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Who haven't lived through

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Arnold and his heyday

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_03]: To see the attractive aspect

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Of masculinity that he embraced

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't care about anything

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I am going to eat my muscles

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I am going to have all the ladies

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I am going to win in bodybuilding

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm going to win in the movies

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm going to win in politics

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_03]: That I'm unstoppable

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And this Nietzsche made a machine

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, this is great, right?

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_09]: No, I tried to not like him

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_09]: I literally tried to not like him

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm like, God damn

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Like he's

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Super magnanimous personality

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Larger than life

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_03]: On the big screen

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And I looked at this guy's values

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And in his book, Education of a Bodybuilder

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_03]: He says, yeah, hard work, self-discipline

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And a positive attitude

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_03]: No one's talking those principles around here

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Everybody works hard

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_03]: But no one knows about self-discipline

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And a positive attitude

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I embraced that

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Long story short

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I have no characteristics for body

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_03]: So I go into the bodybuilding world

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is a cult

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I get to

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_03]: The national championships

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_03]: In 1998

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_03]: My first national championships

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm backstage

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_03]: It looks like a mash unit

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Guys are past

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Like people are getting transfusion

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Like it's a mess

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And I didn't win that contest

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_03]: It came six

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And then, you know

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I met with my coach six weeks later

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And he's like, okay

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_03]: If you want to make the next step

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_03]: In your journey

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_03]: These are the drugs you're going to have to use

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to, you know

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And at this time

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm 230 pounds with veins in my abs

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not competitive

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I got to go to like 260, 270

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like suffering

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I look like a

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_03]: You know

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_03]: A recycled superhero

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_03]: You know

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And I see Ronnie Coleman up there

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm going

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_03]: There's no amount of drugs that I could do

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_03]: To become Ronnie Coleman

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't matter

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_03]: He's a different human being

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Just like I'm not going to start

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_03]: In the NBA as a center

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to be Ronnie Coleman

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_03]: So it broke

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_03]: The mysticism

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Around that aspect

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And what happened afterwards is

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_03]: You know

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I retired from the sport

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I went through a whole series of

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Partying

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And doing a wild life

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And later

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Drug test competitions came back

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And I said, well I love the sport

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I love the aspects of training

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I love the discipline

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I love the dietary stuff

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't care

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_03]: If it can't be Mr. Olympia

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_03]: That's fine

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to go do this

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_03]: And at that time

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I was, you know

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Being a

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I was experimenting with vegetarianism

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And eastern philosophy

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And I was like

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to be a drug free

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Vegetarian bodybuilder

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think I can get to the

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Mr. Universe that way

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Because they have this new pathway

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_03]: For drug tested athletes

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Let's try it

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And I did that

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Everyone said it wasn't possible

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_03]: No one was a vegan bodybuilder

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And so I went back into the cult

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Without doing some of the things

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_03]: That didn't resonate with me

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And two years later

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I was standing on stage

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_03]: At the Mr. Universe contest

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And then from that

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_03]: That launched my whole career

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Matt and I started our business

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And then that led to

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Bi-optimizers

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And then that led to

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Essentially what I wanted to do

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Was a 15 year old

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Because when I was 15

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I said, I'm going to live in

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Venice Beach, California

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Like Arnold

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to train at Gold's Gym

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Next to him

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I am going to have a supplement

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Company that distributes products

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Around the world

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_03]: After I do the Mr. Universe

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Contest

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And all those things happened

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_03]: It just took me 33 years

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_03]: To get there

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_05]: This podcast certainly would not be happening

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Without our amazing, supportive, generous patrons

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Are you with us?

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Come find us over on Patreon

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_05]: At patreon.com

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Slash a little bit culty

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_05]: For bonus episodes

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Ad-free and exclusive content

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_05]: And the occasional zoom

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_05]: With fan favorites from our past episodes

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Q&As and all sorts of goodies

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_05]: It's fun over there people

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Starting from 42995

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Test drives available in Sandyford

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And now Malahide for a limited time

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Book your test drive today

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_01]: At pollstar.com

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_05]: And here you are

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_05]: And I remember when we met last summer

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_05]: And you told us about your new book

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Which we were holding in our hands

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_05]: For those who are watching on YouTube

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_05]: So beautiful by the way

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's an incredible box

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_05]: That comes with a fork and knife

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_05]: And a spoon which

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_09]: We got the deluxe edition

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you for that and for signing in

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_05]: The reason we were like

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, you gotta come on the pod

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_05]: And talk about this

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Is not just so we could catch up

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is also fun

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_05]: But because we were talking about

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_05]: The divisiveness within the different

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Diet cultures, keto and vegan

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_05]: And macro counting and all the different things

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Fasting

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and Nippy and I

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Definitely have danced around

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Pretty much all of these things

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_05]: At different stages

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_05]: But can you talk to us about how you've

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Perceived the current cultural conversation

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Around nutrition and lifestyle

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_05]: And the divisiveness and relation to this podcast

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_05]: And what you've seen

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Because I mean we could geek out

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_05]: On all the other health stuff for hours

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_05]: That unfortunately is not our listenership

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Correct, I feel like I'm lucky

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_03]: In the aspect that I've got exposed

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_03]: To different things at different times

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_03]: That allowed me to come to fruition

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_03]: So nobody was a vegan

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Or vegetarian or plant based guy

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Where I grew up

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And I remember actually thinking

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_03]: That if I became a vegan

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I would dry up and blow away

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I used to make jokes

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I used to make fun of vegans

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And you know so part of my penance

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I guess is to become one later on

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_03]: But anyways

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_03]: So because that was part of the

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Culture I grew up in

[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, hunting, fishing

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_03]: All that sort of stuff

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was great

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_03]: There was nothing wrong with that

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And I was able to achieve

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_03]: A high level of fitness

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_03]: What I didn't share with you

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Is after I did the contest in 2003

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_03]: The Mr. Universe

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I was trying to do a vegan version

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Of a bodybuilding diet

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_03]: And had some limitations

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And so what happened is

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_03]: After that contest

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I gained 42 pounds of fat and water

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Don't try that at home in 11 weeks

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I just destroyed my system

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And I met a guy

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I named him Dr. Michael O'Brien

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_03]: He was the most vibrant senior citizen

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I ever met

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_03]: He was in his 70s

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_03]: This guy was just like

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Everything you'd want to be

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Like he was like

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Like cocoon guy or something

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, this guy was amazing

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And I met him

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And he was talking about

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Raw food

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And enzymes and probiotics

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_03]: And special aminos

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And how your gut digestion

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Was so important

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I went to him

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I said, well look

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm at the pinnacle of

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Performance-based fitness and health

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Like here

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm at the Mr. Universe contest

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_03]: And now I look like

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Mr. Marshmallow

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_03]: What happened?

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_03]: He's like, oh wait

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_03]: You didn't know how to build the body

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_03]: You don't learn to build the body

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_03]: From the outside in

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_03]: But not the inside out

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_03]: So then he started teaching me

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_03]: About enzymes and probiotics

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And these things

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_03]: That no one else was talking about

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_03]: At that time

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_03]: You have to realize

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_03]: That this was like wildly

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Outside of the box of nutrition

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_03]: And I had mastered nutrition

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_03]: From a sports side

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_03]: But not from a health side

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't know the difference

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_03]: You think if a person

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Looks good they're healthy

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_03]: That's not necessarily the case

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_03]: They might be fit

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Right

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_03]: But they may have compromised

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Their health to give

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_03]: An external look

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's proliferated

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Even more and more today

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Well anyways

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_03]: He says you gotta go on

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_03]: A raw food diet

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_03]: You gotta do these enzymes

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And stuff for 90 days

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I did it all

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I did it for six months

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I felt amazing

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I got my body back

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I got my health back

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_03]: And so I got all of the benefits

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_03]: That they were promoting

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And I went down that road

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_03]: My business partner

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Then I started a business

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_03]: With Matt at the same time

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Now Matt embraced that

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_03]: But then his whole training

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Was ketogenic

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_03]: So he said

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah certain things

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_03]: But I really prefer ketogenic

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_03]: So he goes back to ketogenic

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_03]: We start a company together

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm this raw foodist

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_03]: As a bodybuilder

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_03]: He's a ketogenic guy

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_03]: We're at the far end of the spectrum

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_03]: In fact he was experimenting

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_03]: With carnivoreism

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm at raw food

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_03]: So if you look at the dietary

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Rainbow or the try

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Or like the variance

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_03]: We're literally at polar opposites

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And we're starting a company together

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_09]: Republican and Democrats

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Right

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And we argued

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And we fought

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_03]: And we got research

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And we even put podcasts together

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Where we would be challenging each other

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And all this sort of stuff

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_03]: We were having to be recording CDs at the time

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Because podcasts didn't exist

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And what happened is

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_03]: As we went back and forth

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I started to realize

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_03]: There's certain elements

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Of what he's saying is actually true

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And then he started to realize

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_03]: There's certain elements that Wade says is true

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we would test them

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And we would get the benefits

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we realized oh jeez

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Now keep in mind

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I had gone through the whole raw food cult

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Which was another cult

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Cultification if you're not raw

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_03]: This is the turning point

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And I talk about it in the book

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm never going to a raw food festival

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And this kind of wave flight character

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Comes up with these glazed eyes

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Like this

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_03]: And he's like

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_03]: What percentage of raw are you?

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And I knew

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_03]: If I didn't say I'm 100%

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_03]: You know

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Raw food too

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_03]: You know

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm done

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Right

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I am going to be cast into the everlasting fire

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Of the throne of the devil

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is the kitchen

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is what somebody used to say

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_03]: The oven

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And at that moment I was like

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh this is a cult

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I had

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm determined by my level of integration

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_03]: With these values

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And so

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Those things set me up

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I started looking at the rise and fall

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Of different dietary fads

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_03]: If you've been in this industry

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_03]: As long as I have

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_03]: You'll see

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_03]: We're about due for the plant-based program

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Next is going to be the carnivore program

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we're going to go to Keto's

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And you see

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Carbs are bad

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Fats are bad

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Proteins bad

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Fibers bad

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Fibers good

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Fats are good

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Proteins good

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And what happens

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And we discuss this in the book

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_03]: If you understand science

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a bell curve of distribution

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And the bell curve of distribution

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Means this

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Most people fall within the 80%

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Centile range

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_03]: The first standard deviations

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_03]: But the extraordinary people

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Are outside of the bell curve

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_03]: So let's call it the top 2%

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_03]: So that top 2%

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_03]: When they do

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Quote unquote the Keto diet

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_03]: After they become a vegetarian

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_03]: They're like

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I've tried vegetarianism

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_03]: For this many years

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I got sick

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I got fat

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I felt terrible

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't go

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I switched to Keto

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Wow

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I became this

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And I became smarter

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And I became leaner

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And I became a

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_03]: You know

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_03]: A sex powerhouse

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's like

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Wow

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And I actually believe what they say is true

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Conversely

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_03]: So then the top part of those people

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Now become the testimonials

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_03]: That are brought forth in the podcast

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_03]: So now you have confirmation bias

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Of oh yeah

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_03]: This is working

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I felt this

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_03]: I do this

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Because they don't put the negative ones up there

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_03]: They put the positive ones

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_03]: They got to sell you something

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_03]: They got to sell you the idea

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_03]: They got to sell you the values

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_03]: They got to sell you the principles

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_03]: They got to sell you the supplements

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Right

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Now

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_03]: The bottom 2%

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_03]: That make that switch

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_03]: They don't metabolize fats well

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_03]: They can't handle

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_03]: You know proteins well

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_03]: They become the haters

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_03]: They become the person that said

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I took that

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I gained 30 pounds

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I lost my sex drive

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_03]: My brain didn't work

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_03]: But then

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I found paleo

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Right

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_03]: And here we go

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_03]: So what happens

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Because we celebrate excellence in our culture

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Because it's a marker of what we aspire to do

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_03]: So if you're aspirational

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Those people who embody excess

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Like the Ronnie Coleman's of bodybuilding

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Like the Arnold Schwarzenegger's of the movie business

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Like the advocates of the various diet aspects

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Are legitimate

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Have felt that

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And as you try to embrace it

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Some of it works to some varying degree

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And some of it doesn't

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And after watching this for years and years and years

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I realized

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And Matt and I both came to the conclusion

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Because of our different dietary strategies

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_03]: There's actually a lot of different ways to be healthy

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And nowadays we have the technology to discern

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly what's right for you

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And you don't have to

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Be part of a cult

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_03]: In order to be successful

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_03]: You can just take what works

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And throw away what doesn't

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And become personalized nutrition

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And we created a pyramid

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Of nutritional decisions in the book

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_03]: And at the bottom of the pyramid

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_03]: This might be the biggest value in the book

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_03]: In a lot of ways

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_03]: We talk about below

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a pyramid

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And at the bottom is spiritual and cultural commitments

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_03]: The second level is an emotional

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And psychological needs

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_03]: The third level is goals

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Then we get into calories and macros

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Then we get into nutronomics

[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Then we get into gut biome

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Then we get into supplements, food altars

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we get into lifestyle

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is the final key to sustainability

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Can you do this as a way of life forever?

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And do you have enough flexibility

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_03]: To integrate something else

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_03]: When your physiology changes

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Because we're all subjected

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_03]: To the laws of entropy

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And your body doesn't work the same

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_03]: As we get older

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_03]: We all experience in that

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And then you might have to integrate

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And there's always limits within every diet

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And there's advantages in every diet

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_03]: You need to be flexible enough

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_03]: To be able to move through the different times

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Seasons and places

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And now we have the capability to do it

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_03]: But you have to get out

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_03]: But at the bottom, that is emotional,

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Spiritual, psychological and cultural needs

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Actually are the base point

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_03]: From which we filter the world

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And much of that we don't know

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_03]: So if I'm born, let's say in Palestine

[00:41:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Or I'm born in Israel

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is literally next door to each other

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I may have a completely different belief system

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Because of where I was born

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_03]: I was born in Canada

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I have Canadian cultural values

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_03]: If I was, I'm here at Katrina's house

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_03]: She was born in Russia

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Inside of communist Russia

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_03]: There are aspects of the psyche

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_03]: That are built into that framework

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_03]: That you can't even begin to take them apart

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Unless you've studied that

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_03]: And that makes you more susceptible

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Or less susceptible to certain cultural dynamics

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_05]: This is fascinating

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_05]: We have a whole list of questions

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_05]: That you're like answering so many of them

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_05]: As you just speak

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is what Nipi said

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Let's just let Wade do his thing

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_09]: I think we should get into

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_09]: I think use us as an example

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Wade knows our eating habits

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_09]: And how do we protect ourselves

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_09]: From being susceptible

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_09]: To say the cult of the algorithm

[00:42:07] [SPEAKER_09]: Is trying to sell you something

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_09]: This is more for our audience too

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Because I'm sure people don't even know

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_09]: The different beliefs that they have around food

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_09]: Might not be interested

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_09]: So it's going to be case by case

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_09]: But I find that you and I

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Feel like we do our homework on certain things

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_05]: But we're also both totally guilty

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_05]: I've for sure been super guilty

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Of being self-righteous about even post-cult

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Your bulletproof thing

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_09]: That's a perfect example

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Even since leaving next year

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I got onto bulletproof situation

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_05]: To help me lose the baby weight

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_05]: And it worked great

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_05]: And then I found myself being kind of righteous about it

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_05]: And really tried hard to be like

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Well this worked for me

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_05]: It may not work for you

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is I think such a key

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_09]: But then you pivoted

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Just recently I got off coffee altogether

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Because I'm going to peri menopause

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_05]: And my hormones are changing

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_05]: It was making me really anxious

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_05]: And I just couldn't drink it anymore

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_05]: At all in any form

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_05]: So why am I saying that

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm saying it because

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_09]: What's an example of pivoting

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_09]: And I think

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, pivoting is

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_05]: You can't do that in a cult

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_05]: In a cult you're stuck to this belief system

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_05]: And I was so happy to see

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_05]: You even mentioned it in your forward

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_05]: And you even talked about tribalism

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_05]: And how we're wired for that

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Can you speak a little bit to

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_05]: You know what you've seen

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_05]: And the research

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_05]: And even why people are drawn now

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_05]: To a diet as their tribe

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Versus a religion

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Well this is an amazing question

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And there's a lot of touch points on that

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And unfortunately

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_03]: There are so many things going below

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_03]: The surface of a diet conversation

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that just following a certain diet

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_03]: You'll never address the underlying

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Currents which we're subjected to

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_03]: You know you serve this in one aspect

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_03]: A couple of days ago

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Kennedy actually put forth

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Something that I've been aware of

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_03]: For over 30 years in the industry

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Is about some of these underlying currents

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Like the chemicals in our water

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And the changing of our food production

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_03]: The advent of all these chemicals

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I talk about a lot of this

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Inside of the book

[00:44:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Specifics on it

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And I won't get into all the specifics

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_03]: But this is the first time a political candidate

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Has put forth these elements

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_03]: As the causes of chronic disease

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And there is a pharmaceutical

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Industrial complex

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_03]: In cahoots with our nutritional company

[00:44:27] [SPEAKER_03]: And the lobbyists in group to

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Advent things that make us attracted to those things

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_03]: That keep us on the subscription list

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_03]: To their programs

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Which are suboptimal for human health

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_03]: So he identified the statistics

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_03]: About for example autistic rates

[00:44:40] [SPEAKER_03]: He identified the statistics about

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Hormone disruptors

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_03]: He identified the statistics about

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_03]: The nutrient aspects because of soil

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Degregation

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_03]: No person inside of our

[00:44:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Government agencies that I'm aware of

[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_03]: On any level has ever brought

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_03]: These issues to the forefront

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Whether they get integrated or not

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_03]: At least it's in the conversation now

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_03]: This is the conversation at the

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Highest levels of health and vitality

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_03]: When you go to your medical doctor

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_03]: They don't talk about fluoride in the water

[00:45:13] [SPEAKER_03]: They don't talk about chlorine

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_03]: They don't talk about hormone disruptors

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_03]: They just tell you that your hormones are disrupted

[00:45:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And that you need some bioidentical hormones

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_03]: But they don't dress these underlying causes

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Because they're not trained in it

[00:45:24] [SPEAKER_03]: They don't know this

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_03]: So what happens is

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Experts are someone who knows

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_03]: More and more about less and less

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And so they become really good at certain

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Elements but one of the tendencies

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Of being an expert

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Or being highly intelligent in one area

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Is there's an immediate assumption

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_03]: That you're the smartest person in the room

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And you usually are in that subject

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_03]: But when you move to another subject

[00:45:48] [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't transfer over

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And the trick is that it's a tendency

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Of very smart people to make assumptions

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_03]: That they know a lot about something they don't

[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And we see this indoctrination

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_03]: In our medical system

[00:46:01] [SPEAKER_03]: In our food system

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And in our political systems

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And the idea is

[00:46:06] [SPEAKER_03]: In a democratic idea

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Is to challenge those ideas and values

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_03]: And debate them over time

[00:46:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And try to integrate new ones

[00:46:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And I would go back that

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_03]: The advent of pharmaceuticals

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_03]: The advent of commercialized farming

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Made sense at the time

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_03]: There was elements within that work

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_03]: So without demonizing the industry

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Recognize that

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_03]: The demonization happens

[00:46:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Or the corruption of that happens

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Slowly and incrementally

[00:46:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And to become a force of negativity

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Versus a force of good

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_03]: And then you have both sides of the equation

[00:46:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Saying, well, you know

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_03]: The medicine industry has antibiotics

[00:46:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And that saves millions of people

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is true

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, did vaccines at some point

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Help people? Yeah

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_03]: But is this thing that's put on as a vaccine

[00:46:55] [SPEAKER_03]: That's not really a vaccine?

[00:46:56] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just called that

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Because they changed the definition

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's been just rolled out to people

[00:46:59] [SPEAKER_03]: With anybody's choice?

[00:47:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's a problem

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_03]: So that's how the corruption

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Of these industries happen

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_03]: So when you go to a dietary cult

[00:47:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Or you find a diet that works for you

[00:47:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And just because people are so unfit

[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And so unhealthy

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_03]: And so out of shape

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And this has deep psychological

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And emotional impact on people

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Because we have a little thing

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_03]: In our brain that measures

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Where we are in the dominance hierarchy

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And part of the dominance hierarchy

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Is how attractive you are

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_03]: How fit you are

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Because this leads to breeding dynamics

[00:47:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is subconscious

[00:47:36] [SPEAKER_03]: To all of our psychology

[00:47:38] [SPEAKER_03]: So I want to look good

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_03]: And I want to be youthful

[00:47:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And I want to be vibrant

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Because that gives me a better chance

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_03]: To pass my genes on in time

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_03]: That's it, you know

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_03]: All cells need an energy source

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_03]: They need a defense mechanism

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And they need to procreate

[00:47:53] [SPEAKER_03]: To pass their genes on in time

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_03]: That's the substrate of all

[00:47:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Single-cells, multi-cell organisms

[00:47:59] [SPEAKER_03]: And so we have a curiosity

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Is to go out and get food

[00:48:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Get out information

[00:48:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Information is a form of food

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Food is a source of food

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Social groups are a source of food

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_03]: They support the organism

[00:48:10] [SPEAKER_03]: So that is our energy-seeking aspect

[00:48:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And we get energized

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_03]: By being inside of a culture

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Inside of a diet thing

[00:48:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And just being knowing something

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And having a value

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we want to share that

[00:48:19] [SPEAKER_03]: With other people

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Because as you share it

[00:48:22] [SPEAKER_03]: With other people

[00:48:22] [SPEAKER_03]: You move up the hierarchy of dominance

[00:48:24] [SPEAKER_03]: That releases neurochemicals

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_03]: In your brain

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Which makes you feel good

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Because there's safety

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Moving up the value matrix

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Inside of our little structures

[00:48:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And by moving up that

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_03]: That also gives us the best chance

[00:48:39] [SPEAKER_03]: To find a partner to replicate with

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_03]: To pass our genes on into the future

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_03]: So all of our social structures

[00:48:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Are psychological value

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_03]: The fitness that we have

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Are all tied up into these biological drives

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And when you feel down

[00:48:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I'm fat, I'm out of shape

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't feel good

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't do things

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_03]: You either are going to ascribe

[00:49:02] [SPEAKER_03]: To one source which is

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, take this pill

[00:49:05] [SPEAKER_03]: You'll feel better

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Right

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Take this diet

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_03]: You'll feel better

[00:49:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Or take this drug

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And check out from feeling bad

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Those are the options that are presented

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And unfortunately today

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Most people are taking the drug

[00:49:17] [SPEAKER_03]: That checks them out

[00:49:19] [SPEAKER_03]: So they don't have to address

[00:49:21] [SPEAKER_03]: The uncomfortable realities of their life

[00:49:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's a real problem

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_03]: And usually that's not disrupted

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Until some sort of major crisis hits

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_03]: A death, loss of a partner

[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_03]: A breakup, a divorce

[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_03]: A financial collapse

[00:49:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe all three

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_03]: And either that either drives you further

[00:49:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Into that self-destructive behavior

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Or becomes the interruption device to say

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, this isn't working

[00:49:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I need to evaluate all my values

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Thoughts, beliefs and energies

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And I need to incorporate these other things

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's where a person is right

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_03]: To either fall into a cult trap

[00:50:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Or into a culture of excellence

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's a very fine line between the two

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_05]: For more background on what brought us here

[00:50:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Check out my page-turning memoir

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_05]: It's called Scarred

[00:50:16] [SPEAKER_05]: The true story of how I escaped Nexium

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_05]: The cult that bound my life

[00:50:19] [SPEAKER_05]: It's available on Amazon, Audible

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_05]: And at most bookstores

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_05]: And if you want to see that story

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_05]: In streaming form

[00:50:24] [SPEAKER_05]: You can watch both seasons of The Vow

[00:50:26] [SPEAKER_05]: On HBO

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Post-ar 2

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Get behind the wheel

[00:51:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And experience the electric performance

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Of Polestar cars

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[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Test drives available in Sandyford

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And now Malahide for a limited time

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Book your test drive today

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_01]: At Polestar.com

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_09]: They hear what you're saying

[00:51:47] [SPEAKER_09]: They go anti-vax

[00:51:48] [SPEAKER_09]: He thinks the pharmaceutical company is bad

[00:51:50] [SPEAKER_09]: And then the other side is

[00:51:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, I totally agree with this guy

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_09]: I hate vaccines

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_09]: And all pharmaceuticals are bad

[00:51:54] [SPEAKER_09]: And the truth is somewhere in the middle

[00:51:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Correct

[00:51:57] [SPEAKER_09]: And so how do you nurture a culture

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_09]: In any of these

[00:52:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Particularly in the food

[00:52:01] [SPEAKER_09]: Because people are married

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_09]: To certain beliefs in their foods

[00:52:03] [SPEAKER_09]: How do you integrate the culture

[00:52:04] [SPEAKER_09]: To where we can criticize both

[00:52:07] [SPEAKER_09]: And we can come to civil discourse

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_09]: With both because people

[00:52:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Are really dug in on their beliefs

[00:52:12] [SPEAKER_09]: On these things

[00:52:12] [SPEAKER_05]: What's us versus them?

[00:52:13] [SPEAKER_09]: I've been in the spectrum

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_09]: You've seen me go from

[00:52:16] [SPEAKER_09]: I've gone from here to here

[00:52:18] [SPEAKER_09]: To like what the hell

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_09]: And then I've had a process of like

[00:52:21] [SPEAKER_09]: Hey, how do I get here?

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_09]: You know what I mean?

[00:52:23] [SPEAKER_09]: So

[00:52:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think we can

[00:52:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I think the reality is

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_03]: If we would look throughout all history

[00:52:30] [SPEAKER_03]: There has been a long battle of ideas

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And we have what I call

[00:52:35] [SPEAKER_03]: The protoplasmic hangover

[00:52:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And the protoplasmic hangover is

[00:52:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm of the Jungian philosophy

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_03]: That consciousness exists as singularity

[00:52:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Just like the flame under your gas burner

[00:52:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Is one flame but it comes out

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_03]: In the little holes

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And you see all these other aspects

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Because if I die

[00:52:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Is there still consciousness?

[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And before I was born

[00:52:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Was there still consciousness?

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, whatever that is

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_03]: There's some aspect of intelligence

[00:53:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Or consciousness or whatever

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's distributed between animals

[00:53:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Plants, all biological organisms

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe now they're talking about

[00:53:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Artificial intelligence

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Is a topic, right?

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's kind of engineering

[00:53:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Anything artificial

[00:53:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Is usually not that good for you

[00:53:14] [SPEAKER_03]: But artificial intelligence

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Is supposed to be

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_03]: So anyways, that's a whole funny topic

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Separate episode

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_03]: So we get into this consciousness disbursement

[00:53:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And just like I saw

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_03]: There's truth within all diets

[00:53:26] [SPEAKER_03]: That are expressed with these little flames

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Of the different dietary philosophies

[00:53:29] [SPEAKER_03]: About 80% of what people say

[00:53:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Is actually works

[00:53:33] [SPEAKER_03]: So I apply the Pareto's distribution

[00:53:36] [SPEAKER_03]: 80% of what that person is saying

[00:53:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Is probably truth

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_03]: So rather than seek the

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Divisionary aspects at first

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Let me find common ground

[00:53:45] [SPEAKER_03]: With that person first

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is 80%

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_03]: So if somebody is

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_03]: For vaccines or not

[00:53:52] [SPEAKER_03]: For vaccines

[00:53:53] [SPEAKER_03]: What's underneath that?

[00:53:55] [SPEAKER_03]: What's underneath that

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that they believe

[00:53:58] [SPEAKER_03]: That their choice is good for them

[00:54:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And good for society

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_03]: So we actually agree

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_03]: On the fundamental points

[00:54:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that we want good

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_03]: For other people

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Right

[00:54:08] [SPEAKER_03]: That's the common element

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_03]: The question is

[00:54:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Is hey

[00:54:12] [SPEAKER_03]: You believe that this is good

[00:54:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And I believe this is good

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_03]: But what's our motivation?

[00:54:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Our motivation is to create

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_03]: A healthier, more vital

[00:54:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And healthy society

[00:54:22] [SPEAKER_03]: This is where the common elements are

[00:54:24] [SPEAKER_03]: It's the same common elements

[00:54:26] [SPEAKER_03]: So I think that so much

[00:54:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Of social media

[00:54:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And so much of news

[00:54:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Headlining stuff

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Got you stuff

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Is about division

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Because division

[00:54:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Activates our threat detection

[00:54:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Mechanisms

[00:54:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Right

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, going back to the defense mode

[00:54:44] [SPEAKER_03]: If there's a car crash

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_03]: If there's violence

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_03]: If there's bad guys coming over their horizon

[00:54:50] [SPEAKER_03]: We have this integrated into our genetics

[00:54:52] [SPEAKER_03]: That's a threat

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Right

[00:54:55] [SPEAKER_03]: We need to defend up

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Around our little culture

[00:54:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And fight that

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Because that means

[00:55:00] [SPEAKER_03]: We survive

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And so that survival bias

[00:55:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Overrides our prefrontal cortex

[00:55:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And we're just simply

[00:55:10] [SPEAKER_03]: A bunch of monkeys fighting over bananas

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_03]: You're fighting over territory

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Fighting over the territory

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Of I know what's going on

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is an ego position

[00:55:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm smarter than you

[00:55:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I know what's better

[00:55:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I've got a bunch of people

[00:55:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Who are bolstering my idea

[00:55:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And therefore you're an idiot

[00:55:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Right

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And what it is

[00:55:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Is I think the whole social media stuff

[00:55:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Has also accelerated egotism

[00:55:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And narcissism

[00:55:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Which will set the tones

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_03]: For what we started at first

[00:55:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Of psychopathy, sociopathy

[00:55:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And eventually in its highest forms

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Megalomania

[00:55:53] [SPEAKER_09]: Right

[00:55:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And so we all are subjected to that

[00:55:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And we're seeing this play out in front of us

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And so I saw this in the diet industry

[00:55:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I came up with a book to help figure this all out

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I had enough exposing in the spiritual community

[00:56:05] [SPEAKER_03]: The dietary community, the business community

[00:56:06] [SPEAKER_03]: The health community

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And I got exposed to so many different things

[00:56:09] [SPEAKER_03]: In my life of

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, oh there's common elements

[00:56:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Of discord in all of these

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And therefore I have to go below just the diet

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Or just this

[00:56:18] [SPEAKER_03]: To actually address the fundamental aspects

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And that is how we determine the world

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Through our sensory inputs

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And our need to be safe

[00:56:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Our need to be able to

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Move up the dominance hierarchy

[00:56:32] [SPEAKER_03]: So that I can replicate my genes through time

[00:56:35] [SPEAKER_03]: That's it

[00:56:35] [SPEAKER_03]: If you understand that biology

[00:56:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Then you have a defense network

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Against my own egoistic aspects

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Because what do I know

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_03]: So I always say that

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_03]: What do I know

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, this is what I've learned

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_03]: This is what it works for me

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know anything

[00:56:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Which brings us back to the humility

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_05]: You talked about at the beginning

[00:56:50] [SPEAKER_05]: So given that biology

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_05]: And our need to be safe

[00:56:53] [SPEAKER_05]: And all of these things were

[00:56:55] [SPEAKER_05]: It makes sense that we're in such a divisive time

[00:56:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Where we're monkeys fighting over bananas

[00:56:59] [SPEAKER_09]: You're just positive too

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_09]: You work it out

[00:57:01] [SPEAKER_05]: You work, you can

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_05]: And I like the idea of common ground

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm always thinking about

[00:57:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Like what does our audience need

[00:57:06] [SPEAKER_05]: In terms of

[00:57:07] [SPEAKER_05]: And you might not know this

[00:57:08] [SPEAKER_05]: But in addition to people who are just fascinated

[00:57:10] [SPEAKER_05]: By cults

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_05]: There's a lot of cult survivors

[00:57:12] [SPEAKER_05]: That listen to this

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think many of them

[00:57:15] [SPEAKER_05]: If they've been burned

[00:57:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Or conned

[00:57:18] [SPEAKER_05]: And realized that we're following a false guru

[00:57:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Are very hesitant to trust

[00:57:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Anybody else

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Or they are cult hoppers

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_05]: And they're trying to fill

[00:57:27] [SPEAKER_05]: What we call the cult shaped hole in their heart

[00:57:29] [SPEAKER_05]: And they join something else

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Because they haven't healed yet

[00:57:31] [SPEAKER_05]: But at least for me

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I've been very hesitant to join a group

[00:57:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Or follow anyone

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_05]: But one of the things I got from your book

[00:57:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Is that it is important

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_05]: If you want to take your health seriously

[00:57:39] [SPEAKER_05]: That you have some kind of accountability

[00:57:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Or often a coach

[00:57:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Or somebody who can guide you

[00:57:44] [SPEAKER_05]: How do you think these people

[00:57:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Can look for a mentor or guide in the space

[00:57:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Especially given all the charlatans

[00:57:49] [SPEAKER_05]: That exist in health and wellness

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_03]: What is the level of humility

[00:57:52] [SPEAKER_03]: That that person possesses?

[00:57:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Hmm

[00:57:55] [SPEAKER_03]: So

[00:57:56] [SPEAKER_03]: If they're coming out

[00:57:58] [SPEAKER_03]: With the proclamations

[00:58:00] [SPEAKER_03]: The ten commandments

[00:58:02] [SPEAKER_03]: No

[00:58:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Thou shalt this

[00:58:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And thou shalt not that

[00:58:06] [SPEAKER_03]: You're heading into

[00:58:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Dark waters in my opinion

[00:58:10] [SPEAKER_03]: If the person says

[00:58:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Hey

[00:58:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Here's what I've experienced

[00:58:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And learned

[00:58:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm advocating it

[00:58:17] [SPEAKER_03]: But there's an out

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_03]: If this works for you

[00:58:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Take it

[00:58:21] [SPEAKER_03]: If it doesn't

[00:58:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Abandon it

[00:58:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm merely offering a set

[00:58:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Of suggestions of what worked for me

[00:58:27] [SPEAKER_03]: But I want you to trust yourself

[00:58:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Enough

[00:58:31] [SPEAKER_03]: That if something is creating

[00:58:34] [SPEAKER_03]: An uncomfortable feeling in yourself

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_03]: If something is detrimental

[00:58:39] [SPEAKER_03]: To your goal

[00:58:40] [SPEAKER_03]: In this case

[00:58:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Fitness or health

[00:58:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Or living your best life

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_03]: If you're seeing the data

[00:58:45] [SPEAKER_03]: That shows that

[00:58:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Eating fats is throwing off my cholesterol

[00:58:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Despite what this guru tells me

[00:58:51] [SPEAKER_03]: That stop eating those fats

[00:58:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And see what happens

[00:58:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Try something else

[00:58:56] [SPEAKER_03]: So there needs to be a combination

[00:58:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Of curiosity and humility

[00:59:00] [SPEAKER_03]: But also that checkpoint

[00:59:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And this is where it's good

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_03]: To have friends

[00:59:05] [SPEAKER_03]: With completely opposing opinions

[00:59:08] [SPEAKER_03]: So cultivate friends

[00:59:10] [SPEAKER_03]: So if you're a Republican

[00:59:12] [SPEAKER_03]: You need to have

[00:59:13] [SPEAKER_03]: A friend who is a hardcore Democrat

[00:59:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And if you're a hardcore Democrat

[00:59:18] [SPEAKER_03]: You need a friend

[00:59:19] [SPEAKER_03]: That's a hardcore Republican

[00:59:21] [SPEAKER_03]: If you're a hardcore raw foodist

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_03]: You need a friend

[00:59:24] [SPEAKER_03]: That is a hardcore carnivore person

[00:59:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And I had that with Matt

[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And the reason we were able to make this book

[00:59:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Is because Matt and I both

[00:59:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I knew him

[00:59:33] [SPEAKER_03]: We both had the same values

[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_03]: We wanted to help people

[00:59:36] [SPEAKER_03]: We fell in love with

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Transferring people's lives

[00:59:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Physically as trainers

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And nutritionists

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_03]: We built a company around that

[00:59:41] [SPEAKER_03]: We decided that value of creating

[00:59:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Value in the world

[00:59:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Was more important than our differences

[00:59:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And that led us to a

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Oftentimes combative relationship

[00:59:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Internally

[00:59:53] [SPEAKER_03]: In a unification externally

[00:59:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And the world's a better place for it

[00:59:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And we're a better place for it

[00:59:59] [SPEAKER_03]: It wouldn't have happened

[01:00:00] [SPEAKER_03]: If I didn't have Matt in my life

[01:00:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And it probably wouldn't have happened to him

[01:00:04] [SPEAKER_03]: If he didn't have me

[01:00:05] [SPEAKER_03]: So what I would suggest

[01:00:07] [SPEAKER_03]: For everyone to protect themselves

[01:00:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Is to have the person

[01:00:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Who is continually questioning

[01:00:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Your values

[01:00:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Your cult dynamics

[01:00:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Your whatever

[01:00:16] [SPEAKER_03]: As a friend

[01:00:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Who's close to you

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_03]: That can checkpoint Charlie

[01:00:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Because every now and then

[01:00:23] [SPEAKER_03]: They may have a point

[01:00:24] [SPEAKER_05]: That is such good advice

[01:00:26] [SPEAKER_05]: I wish I had more people

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Questioning me

[01:00:28] [SPEAKER_05]: When we were next to him

[01:00:30] [SPEAKER_05]: And with better questions

[01:00:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Because they just

[01:00:33] [SPEAKER_05]: They didn't know what to ask

[01:00:33] [SPEAKER_09]: They were

[01:00:34] [SPEAKER_09]: A lot of them

[01:00:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah

[01:00:36] [SPEAKER_05]: But we weren't open to that

[01:00:38] [SPEAKER_05]: But now I would be

[01:00:39] [SPEAKER_05]: I know we have like six minutes left

[01:00:41] [SPEAKER_05]: That's right

[01:00:41] [SPEAKER_05]: A couple of quick things

[01:00:42] [SPEAKER_05]: You've already mentioned ego

[01:00:44] [SPEAKER_05]: But I've heard you say in other interviews

[01:00:46] [SPEAKER_05]: And in your book

[01:00:46] [SPEAKER_05]: That people have a cult relationship

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_05]: With their diet

[01:00:49] [SPEAKER_05]: So it never might even the guru

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_05]: They have this dynamic with their diet

[01:00:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Can you elaborate on that

[01:00:53] [SPEAKER_05]: What you mean by it?

[01:00:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so I remember this happening to me

[01:00:56] [SPEAKER_03]: As I moved up the

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Level of popularity

[01:01:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And became known

[01:01:03] [SPEAKER_03]: In a lot of nutritional circles

[01:01:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And I got to know

[01:01:05] [SPEAKER_03]: The people in the green room

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_03]: As I like to say

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Before you go out on stage

[01:01:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And you know

[01:01:10] [SPEAKER_03]: You kind of have this little subculture

[01:01:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Up there is like

[01:01:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the speakers

[01:01:13] [SPEAKER_03]: The big stars

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And then everybody's kind of playing to

[01:01:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Who's the biggest star

[01:01:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And who's like the lowest star

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And you're kind of

[01:01:20] [SPEAKER_03]: This is a whole social hierarchy within that

[01:01:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god, it's so lame

[01:01:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And what happened is

[01:01:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I would see

[01:01:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Some of these other

[01:01:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I was hyper-disciplined

[01:01:31] [SPEAKER_03]: And I would see

[01:01:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Or hear rumors of

[01:01:34] [SPEAKER_03]: People who are the advocate

[01:01:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Of this dietary values

[01:01:37] [SPEAKER_03]: That weren't following

[01:01:38] [SPEAKER_03]: All of the dietary tenets

[01:01:40] [SPEAKER_03]: That they advocated

[01:01:41] [SPEAKER_03]: So I saw these raw foodists guys

[01:01:43] [SPEAKER_03]: That were eating meat on the side

[01:01:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I saw these keto people

[01:01:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Who were slamming, you know

[01:01:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Carbohydrates and sugar at

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_03]: That you know

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I'd run into them at the donut shop

[01:01:52] [SPEAKER_03]: At 6am

[01:01:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And they were sneaking there

[01:01:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And I remember even myself

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_03]: When I went off my raw food diet

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I was raw food for two years

[01:02:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And I remember the feeling I had

[01:02:05] [SPEAKER_03]: When I ate a cooked veggie burger

[01:02:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Sacrilage

[01:02:08] [SPEAKER_03]: First off I was like

[01:02:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god

[01:02:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I love burgers in the past

[01:02:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't have one for years

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_03]: A veggie burger came out

[01:02:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And I really wanted a veggie burger

[01:02:16] [SPEAKER_03]: But it wasn't raw

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_03]: So we got out of the meat

[01:02:18] [SPEAKER_03]: But then it was like

[01:02:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Wow, it's a plant-based burger

[01:02:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And I had this veggie burger

[01:02:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Felt it was awesome

[01:02:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Tasted great

[01:02:25] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm like salivating

[01:02:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Had some french fries with it too

[01:02:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Wasn't supposed to have those

[01:02:29] [SPEAKER_03]: It was great

[01:02:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Now I did feel a little bit

[01:02:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Fatigue afterwards

[01:02:33] [SPEAKER_03]: But it came back and I was like

[01:02:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Not gonna

[01:02:36] [SPEAKER_03]: That burger and fries was good

[01:02:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I felt the guilt

[01:02:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Come up inside of me

[01:02:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Wait, you've violated

[01:02:47] [SPEAKER_03]: The raw food tenets

[01:02:49] [SPEAKER_03]: You're a bad person

[01:02:51] [SPEAKER_03]: You're a fraud

[01:02:53] [SPEAKER_03]: You are deceiving

[01:02:56] [SPEAKER_03]: The raw foodists around the world

[01:02:59] [SPEAKER_03]: You need to flagellate yourself

[01:03:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And I watched this part come up

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Inside of me

[01:03:05] [SPEAKER_03]: That I was breaking this code

[01:03:08] [SPEAKER_03]: This ethics

[01:03:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's what keeps people inside

[01:03:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Those institutions

[01:03:11] [SPEAKER_03]: And I was in it

[01:03:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And I had to fight it

[01:03:13] [SPEAKER_03]: And those books I talked about

[01:03:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Really helped me with that

[01:03:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I had to do a lot of prayer

[01:03:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And meditation

[01:03:20] [SPEAKER_03]: To kinda ask for guidance

[01:03:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I had to give my license

[01:03:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And to be frank

[01:03:24] [SPEAKER_03]: That was about a two-year process

[01:03:26] [SPEAKER_03]: To fully turn down the voice in my head

[01:03:31] [SPEAKER_03]: That was giving me the guilt dynamics

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_03]: That I wasn't this or I wasn't that

[01:03:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Or whatever

[01:03:35] [SPEAKER_03]: And so my message to everybody

[01:03:38] [SPEAKER_03]: That finds themselves out there

[01:03:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Is it's normal for you to have

[01:03:42] [SPEAKER_03]: That internal conflict

[01:03:44] [SPEAKER_03]: That internal conflict has positive aspects

[01:03:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And negative aspects

[01:03:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And this is why you want to

[01:03:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Not only have someone who is on the opposite side

[01:03:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Of your belief system

[01:03:56] [SPEAKER_03]: But you also want a coach

[01:03:59] [SPEAKER_03]: And a specialist to be able to be

[01:04:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Your advocate and to walk you through

[01:04:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Those dynamics that you don't want

[01:04:06] [SPEAKER_03]: To discuss in public

[01:04:07] [SPEAKER_03]: So someone that has your trust

[01:04:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Whether that's a therapist

[01:04:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Whether that's a coach

[01:04:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever that happens to be

[01:04:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Someone with a professional designation

[01:04:14] [SPEAKER_03]: That can walk you through that

[01:04:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Without judgment

[01:04:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And so that you can look at

[01:04:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Your own self-judgment objectively

[01:04:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And walk through the natural emotional

[01:04:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And psychological aspects that activates

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_03]: The traumas, the whatever that led you

[01:04:31] [SPEAKER_03]: To believe that

[01:04:31] [SPEAKER_03]: And if you can do that

[01:04:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And have that checkpoint, Charlie

[01:04:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I think you'll protect yourself

[01:04:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And you can take the benefits of different cultures

[01:04:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And positive aspects of different cultures

[01:04:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Because everything is a cult at some level

[01:04:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And everything, you know

[01:04:42] [SPEAKER_03]: As you guys have probably discovered

[01:04:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And take the positive stuff

[01:04:46] [SPEAKER_03]: But you don't get too caught in the weeds

[01:04:48] [SPEAKER_03]: That you end up in a bad place

[01:04:50] [SPEAKER_05]: And that's such good advice

[01:04:51] [SPEAKER_05]: And what a positive note to end on

[01:04:53] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think that's something our listeners

[01:04:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Can certainly take away

[01:04:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And we certainly have from you

[01:04:56] [SPEAKER_05]: For sure, your book's great

[01:04:57] [SPEAKER_09]: I love it

[01:04:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, your book is really phenomenal

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_05]: And I highly recommend it to anyone

[01:05:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Who's wanting to be healthy

[01:05:03] [SPEAKER_05]: From the inside out, as you said

[01:05:05] [SPEAKER_09]: We could talk for hours

[01:05:07] [SPEAKER_05]: But we know you're very popular

[01:05:09] [SPEAKER_05]: You're very popular

[01:05:10] [SPEAKER_05]: And you've got another call right after this

[01:05:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Any final things you need to say to us

[01:05:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Before we let you go to your next thing

[01:05:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know

[01:05:18] [SPEAKER_03]: It was interesting to watch the whole process

[01:05:21] [SPEAKER_03]: That you guys went through

[01:05:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And to be part of it

[01:05:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And to be there in the kind of

[01:05:25] [SPEAKER_03]: The dark night of the soul

[01:05:26] [SPEAKER_03]: That you guys were enduring

[01:05:27] [SPEAKER_03]: And your commitment to

[01:05:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Your ethical values

[01:05:33] [SPEAKER_03]: That brought you both into that

[01:05:35] [SPEAKER_03]: That you accelerated it

[01:05:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And then let you get out of that

[01:05:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know

[01:05:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I remember those things

[01:05:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And you had to trust

[01:05:42] [SPEAKER_03]: That you were on the right path

[01:05:44] [SPEAKER_03]: When even the closest people

[01:05:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Your best allies and friends

[01:05:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Were going against you

[01:05:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And somehow

[01:05:51] [SPEAKER_03]: You guys navigated it through that

[01:05:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And so you're living examples

[01:05:56] [SPEAKER_03]: That's happened

[01:05:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And I remember saying

[01:05:58] [SPEAKER_03]: At some point in time

[01:05:59] [SPEAKER_03]: This could be a value

[01:06:00] [SPEAKER_03]: That you can't imagine

[01:06:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Just stick with it

[01:06:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And now here you are

[01:06:03] [SPEAKER_03]: In your show

[01:06:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And you've had the series

[01:06:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And everything

[01:06:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And so it's like

[01:06:07] [SPEAKER_03]: You're doing good in the world

[01:06:09] [SPEAKER_03]: From what you endured

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And that means

[01:06:11] [SPEAKER_03]: That you were always on the right path

[01:06:13] [SPEAKER_03]: From the beginning

[01:06:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And so congratulations

[01:06:14] [SPEAKER_03]: On staying the course

[01:06:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Against adversity

[01:06:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you

[01:06:18] [SPEAKER_09]: And Sarah and I were talking this morning

[01:06:19] [SPEAKER_09]: And I was like

[01:06:20] [SPEAKER_09]: I remember talking to Wade

[01:06:21] [SPEAKER_09]: I was like

[01:06:22] [SPEAKER_09]: I think we're meant to work together

[01:06:23] [SPEAKER_09]: This is like, you know, five years ago

[01:06:26] [SPEAKER_09]: And you were like, yeah

[01:06:27] [SPEAKER_09]: And here it is

[01:06:28] [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't think I was going to cry in this episode

[01:06:29] [SPEAKER_05]: But you did it

[01:06:30] [SPEAKER_05]: You did it, Wade

[01:06:31] [SPEAKER_05]: So thank you for saying that

[01:06:34] [SPEAKER_05]: And for all your positivity

[01:06:35] [SPEAKER_05]: You have such a

[01:06:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Your megawatt smile

[01:06:38] [SPEAKER_05]: And your integrity

[01:06:40] [SPEAKER_05]: And your friendship

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a big bright light in this world

[01:06:44] [SPEAKER_03]: When's the due date?

[01:06:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Somewhere around eight weeks

[01:06:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever that means

[01:06:50] [SPEAKER_03]: You know

[01:06:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Babies show up on their own time

[01:06:52] [SPEAKER_04]: This is going to be the most well nourished

[01:06:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Baby and mother combo

[01:06:57] [SPEAKER_04]: This baby's going to come out like a superhero

[01:06:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Hopefully we can see you soon

[01:06:59] [SPEAKER_03]: So I said he's going to come out in a ninja role

[01:07:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Because she's a world champion

[01:07:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And you just said

[01:07:03] [SPEAKER_03]: The kid's coming out with a ninja role

[01:07:04] [SPEAKER_03]: He's going to cut the cord himself

[01:07:07] [SPEAKER_09]: I wouldn't doubt it

[01:07:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Just like Chuck Norris

[01:07:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Chuck Norris did that

[01:07:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Chuck knew exactly

[01:07:12] [SPEAKER_03]: This kid's going to be Chuck Norris

[01:07:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I hope so

[01:07:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, long as it's healthy and happy

[01:07:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And I get to go with that experience

[01:07:16] [SPEAKER_03]: That you guys have done

[01:07:17] [SPEAKER_03]: You've been an inspiration on that

[01:07:19] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm excited to embrace that part

[01:07:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'll be calling on you a few times

[01:07:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Like hey guys

[01:07:22] [SPEAKER_03]: You bet

[01:07:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Raise some help here

[01:07:24] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know what I'm doing

[01:07:26] [SPEAKER_09]: Remember what I said

[01:07:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Do you remember this

[01:07:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, just you wait

[01:07:28] [SPEAKER_03]: You're getting to know the kid

[01:07:29] [SPEAKER_03]: The call

[01:07:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, that is one of the big things

[01:07:31] [SPEAKER_03]: You told me that I believe

[01:07:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but also like the cult of the

[01:07:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Like do you co-sleep?

[01:07:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Do you put in the crib?

[01:07:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Do you

[01:07:38] [SPEAKER_05]: There's so many

[01:07:39] [SPEAKER_05]: There's a whole new world of division

[01:07:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Out there as a parent

[01:07:42] [SPEAKER_05]: So come back and tell us about that in a year

[01:07:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah

[01:07:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah

[01:07:46] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, just accept that

[01:07:48] [SPEAKER_03]: You're going to make mistakes

[01:07:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Holy, they're not lethal

[01:07:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah

[01:07:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes

[01:07:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you so much

[01:07:55] [SPEAKER_05]: For your time Wade

[01:07:56] [SPEAKER_05]: You are such a gem

[01:07:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Please keep in touch

[01:07:58] [SPEAKER_05]: And come visit

[01:07:59] [SPEAKER_05]: I will

[01:08:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Mwah

[01:08:02] [SPEAKER_05]: You like what you hear?

[01:08:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Please do give us a rating

[01:08:04] [SPEAKER_05]: A review

[01:08:05] [SPEAKER_05]: And subscribe on iTunes

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Or wherever you listen

[01:08:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Every little bit helps us

[01:08:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Get this cult awareness content

[01:08:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Out there

[01:08:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Smash that subscribe button

[01:08:12] [SPEAKER_05]: You know what to do

[01:08:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you everybody

[01:08:15] [SPEAKER_05]: We hope that you enjoyed that

[01:08:16] [SPEAKER_05]: We certainly did

[01:08:17] [SPEAKER_05]: In fact, we stopped recording

[01:08:20] [SPEAKER_05]: After an hour

[01:08:21] [SPEAKER_05]: And then we talked for another half an hour

[01:08:23] [SPEAKER_05]: I wish we'd kept the record button on

[01:08:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Because

[01:08:25] [SPEAKER_09]: It's always like that with Wade though

[01:08:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Just

[01:08:28] [SPEAKER_09]: What do you think on this?

[01:08:29] [SPEAKER_09]: What do you think on this?

[01:08:30] [SPEAKER_05]: So back in the old days

[01:08:30] [SPEAKER_05]: When we lived in Vancouver

[01:08:32] [SPEAKER_05]: We used to have these great parties

[01:08:33] [SPEAKER_05]: And I would be the hostess

[01:08:35] [SPEAKER_05]: And get everyone their drink

[01:08:36] [SPEAKER_05]: And bring them in

[01:08:36] [SPEAKER_05]: And I'd be like

[01:08:37] [SPEAKER_05]: At the end of the party

[01:08:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Where is Nippy?

[01:08:38] [SPEAKER_05]: And he'd be sitting on the patio

[01:08:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Practically like in a

[01:08:41] [SPEAKER_05]: You know what's it called

[01:08:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Like a smoking jacket

[01:08:43] [SPEAKER_05]: And a cigar

[01:08:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Not really

[01:08:44] [SPEAKER_05]: But this is my image of him

[01:08:45] [SPEAKER_05]: And him and Wade would always be sitting there

[01:08:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Waxing about politics

[01:08:49] [SPEAKER_05]: And health and wellness

[01:08:51] [SPEAKER_05]: And whatever's going on in the world

[01:08:52] [SPEAKER_05]: So this is reminding me

[01:08:54] [SPEAKER_05]: A little bit of that

[01:08:54] [SPEAKER_05]: But how did you feel hearing

[01:08:56] [SPEAKER_05]: About what he said

[01:08:57] [SPEAKER_05]: In terms of how we supported us?

[01:08:59] [SPEAKER_09]: It wasn't a surprise

[01:09:00] [SPEAKER_09]: He's always been that kind of guy

[01:09:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he never judged us

[01:09:04] [SPEAKER_05]: When we got out

[01:09:04] [SPEAKER_05]: And he was just like

[01:09:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Full of positivity

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_05]: And almost like a casual therapist

[01:09:08] [SPEAKER_05]: On the side as we were going through

[01:09:10] [SPEAKER_05]: The shittiest of the shit show

[01:09:12] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, he knew us too

[01:09:13] [SPEAKER_09]: So he knew like

[01:09:14] [SPEAKER_09]: We were coming from the right place

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_09]: And you know

[01:09:16] [SPEAKER_09]: All those people that knew us

[01:09:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Are happy to see us

[01:09:19] [SPEAKER_09]: Doing what we're doing now

[01:09:20] [SPEAKER_09]: Right?

[01:09:21] [SPEAKER_09]: And he's certainly one of them

[01:09:22] So...

[01:09:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Other interesting points

[01:09:24] [SPEAKER_05]: I thought were

[01:09:25] [SPEAKER_05]: I loved his Arlo Den Perression

[01:09:26] [SPEAKER_05]: You have a good one too

[01:09:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Each I don't think we heard

[01:09:29] [SPEAKER_09]: Alright

[01:09:30] [SPEAKER_09]: So

[01:09:31] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm gonna do a couple

[01:09:32] [SPEAKER_09]: Imitations from movies

[01:09:33] [SPEAKER_09]: And if you guys know what they are

[01:09:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Let us know

[01:09:35] [SPEAKER_08]: I want Hawkins Bati found

[01:09:37] [SPEAKER_08]: Sweet pattern double back

[01:09:38] [SPEAKER_08]: 50 meters

[01:09:39] [SPEAKER_08]: Let's go

[01:09:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Don't know it

[01:09:42] [SPEAKER_08]: We move 5 meter spread

[01:09:44] [SPEAKER_08]: No sound

[01:09:46] [SPEAKER_08]: 12 gauge Ardoloda

[01:09:47] [SPEAKER_08]: The phase plasma rifle

[01:09:49] [SPEAKER_08]: In the 40 watt range

[01:09:50] [SPEAKER_08]: Uzi 9 millimeter

[01:09:53] [SPEAKER_08]: And if you don't have it

[01:09:54] [SPEAKER_09]: Don't hit it

[01:09:55] [SPEAKER_04]: So you've got to explain what it is

[01:09:56] [SPEAKER_04]: He's like

[01:09:57] [SPEAKER_09]: No, no, they have to guess

[01:09:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, don't have it

[01:09:59] [SPEAKER_09]: Don't hit it

[01:10:00] [SPEAKER_09]: It's gonna be an obscuring

[01:10:01] [SPEAKER_09]: Because it's from pumping iron

[01:10:02] [SPEAKER_09]: And some of the outtakes

[01:10:03] [SPEAKER_09]: And they're all sitting around flexing

[01:10:04] [SPEAKER_09]: In the mirror

[01:10:05] [SPEAKER_09]: And Arlo goes

[01:10:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you have to hit the side chest

[01:10:07] [SPEAKER_09]: Like this

[01:10:08] [SPEAKER_09]: And they're all looking at me

[01:10:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Looks at the guy and goes

[01:10:10] [SPEAKER_09]: And if you don't have it

[01:10:11] [SPEAKER_09]: Don't hit it

[01:10:13] [SPEAKER_09]: It's so good

[01:10:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Anyway

[01:10:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Both of our kids still say this

[01:10:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Other interesting thoughts

[01:10:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Cult

[01:10:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Inside of culture

[01:10:21] [SPEAKER_05]: We've, you know

[01:10:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Obviously it's sort of a no brainer

[01:10:22] [SPEAKER_05]: But we've never really talked about it

[01:10:24] [SPEAKER_05]: On the show

[01:10:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Unfortunately we didn't have time

[01:10:26] [SPEAKER_05]: To really get in to Wade

[01:10:27] [SPEAKER_05]: How we define cult

[01:10:29] [SPEAKER_05]: And how, yes

[01:10:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Lots of things can be culty

[01:10:32] [SPEAKER_05]: And say that's a cult

[01:10:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is one of the reasons

[01:10:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Why we're trying to steer away from that

[01:10:36] [SPEAKER_05]: And say like

[01:10:36] [SPEAKER_05]: What bad thing is happening

[01:10:37] [SPEAKER_05]: In the group

[01:10:39] [SPEAKER_05]: That's specifically toxic

[01:10:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Or bad for you

[01:10:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Versus, you know

[01:10:43] [SPEAKER_05]: If you throw the word of culture

[01:10:44] [SPEAKER_05]: On too much it loses its punch

[01:10:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Which also reminds me

[01:10:47] [SPEAKER_05]: He brought up a certain group

[01:10:48] [SPEAKER_05]: With a yoga, like a Buddhist teacher

[01:10:51] [SPEAKER_05]: That we have not researched

[01:10:53] [SPEAKER_05]: So we're not advocating

[01:10:55] [SPEAKER_05]: For this guru

[01:10:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And we don't know if there's been allegations

[01:10:57] [SPEAKER_05]: We're glad that Wade

[01:10:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Never had a bad experience

[01:10:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Or his experience was good

[01:11:00] [SPEAKER_05]: But as we know

[01:11:02] [SPEAKER_05]: That isn't always the case

[01:11:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Well what I see Wade really good at

[01:11:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Is finding people who have knowledge

[01:11:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Going and taking the knowledge

[01:11:07] [SPEAKER_09]: And using it for his own life

[01:11:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Which is originally what all this stuff

[01:11:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Is for in the first place

[01:11:11] [SPEAKER_09]: You don't want to make it your life

[01:11:12] [SPEAKER_09]: And I think Wade is able to do that

[01:11:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Because he has a pretty singular focus

[01:11:16] [SPEAKER_09]: And so he goes

[01:11:17] [SPEAKER_09]: How do these tools fit in with my focus

[01:11:19] [SPEAKER_09]: Which I think made him less susceptible

[01:11:21] [SPEAKER_09]: To joining a group

[01:11:22] [SPEAKER_05]: And like the idea of a buffet

[01:11:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Of different belief systems

[01:11:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Just put what you want on the plate

[01:11:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Is it a coincidence

[01:11:28] [SPEAKER_09]: That he's using food metaphors

[01:11:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know

[01:11:30] [SPEAKER_05]: A vegan and a carnivore

[01:11:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Walk into the bar

[01:11:34] [SPEAKER_09]: And get drunk together

[01:11:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay everybody

[01:11:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Let us know what you thought of this episode

[01:11:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Be careful when you're out there

[01:11:40] [SPEAKER_05]: On the you know

[01:11:42] [SPEAKER_05]: The Instagram choosing things

[01:11:43] [SPEAKER_05]: And I hope that this episode helps you be a little bit

[01:11:46] [SPEAKER_05]: A little bit more discerning

[01:11:47] [SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean

[01:11:48] [SPEAKER_08]: I'll be back

[01:11:50] [SPEAKER_05]: We'll send it right there

[01:11:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Bye

[01:12:16] [SPEAKER_09]: We're closing now to discuss this episode

[01:12:17] [SPEAKER_09]: In the meantime dear listener please remember

[01:12:20] [SPEAKER_09]: This podcast is solely for general informational

[01:12:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Educational and entertainment purposes

[01:12:25] [SPEAKER_09]: It's not intended as a substitute

[01:12:27] [SPEAKER_09]: For real, medical, legal or therapeutic advice

[01:12:30] [SPEAKER_09]: For cult recovery resources

[01:12:31] [SPEAKER_09]: And to learn more about seeking safely

[01:12:34] [SPEAKER_09]: In this culty world

[01:12:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Check out a littlebitculty.com

[01:12:37] [SPEAKER_09]: Slash culty resources

[01:12:38] [SPEAKER_09]: And don't miss Sarah's TED talk called

[01:12:40] [SPEAKER_09]: How Cult Literate Are You

[01:12:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Great Stuff

[01:12:42] [SPEAKER_05]: A little bit culty is a Trace 120 production

[01:12:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Executive produced by Sarah Edmondson and Anthony Nippy Ames

[01:12:48] [SPEAKER_05]: In collaboration with producer Will Rutherford

[01:12:50] [SPEAKER_05]: At Citizens of Sound

[01:12:51] [SPEAKER_05]: And our co-creator and show chaplain

[01:12:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Slash bodyguard Jess Templetardi

[01:12:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And our theme song, Cultivated is by John Bryant