Healing In Public: Sarma Melngailis on Life After Netflix

[00:00:00] This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, medical, or mental health advice. The views and opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast and are not intended to malign any religion group, club, organization, business,

[00:00:13] individual, anyone, or anything. I'm Sarah Edmondson. And I'm Anthony, air quotes Nippy Ames. This is A Little Bit Culty. A podcast about what happens when things that seem like a great thing at first go bad.

[00:00:36] Every week we chat with survivors, experts, and whistleblowers for real cult stories told directly by the people who live through them. Because we want you to learn a few things we've had to learn the hard way.

[00:00:46] Like if you think you're too smart to get sucked into something culty? You're already prime recruitment material. You might even already be in a cult. Oops, you better keep listening to find out. Welcome to season six of A Little Bit Culty. Season three is rocking.

[00:01:19] Season three is yielding lots of fascinating responses. We are very much enjoying the dialogue and we hope you are too. Predictable one for Shafali. Predictable being... We kind of knew the response would be that. There will be a much longer expose slash discussion over on Patreon.

[00:01:36] Perhaps we will release it on this main feed. Have you been enjoying our Patreon drops here? Little gifts, little gifts we're leaving you. Pencils, pencils. I'm not talking about the pencils. I'm talking about we dropped our episode with John Bryant.

[00:01:48] And I think we're also going to share the one with my dad because it was such a hit over on Patreon. They get early access, but we decided that you, our dear listeners should hear... Get a gray set. Get some clips from it. Get the greatest hits eventually.

[00:02:02] Some other nuggets coming your way, but we hope that you enjoyed Meg Applegate last week. We sure did. Just re-listen to the episode to get some sound bites and she drops lots of knowledge. Her story is pretty epic and full circle. Yes.

[00:02:16] And we appreciate what knowledge she gives to parents who are considering sending their kids to any sort of facility. Do your research, dear parents. Do your research. Next week, we have a much anticipated interview with Alice Heinz, the only journalist that

[00:02:32] was invited to the homes of Jeff and Shalia from the Twin Flames universe. Yes, we've seen the documentary. We got screeners early. Thank you to Prime Video and our thoughts on the show and our interview with Alice will be dropping next week. So stay tuned for that.

[00:02:48] And if you haven't watched the docu-series, we recommend it. Give it a whirl. It's only three episodes and goes pretty quickly. Today's episode is a follow up conversation with one of our top listen to episodes of all time. Got a vegan in the house.

[00:03:03] A major vegan, a very good vegan in our opinion, Sarma Mungalis. On the eve of Netflix premiere of its sensational docu-series, Bad Vegan. Still not crazy about that title. Sarma Mungalis spoke with us exclusively about all the shit she's endured for a decade

[00:03:18] with Mr. So-called Fox, a con man skilled in the culty arts of coercion and control. We know this story. At that point, there was a glimmer of hope that the show might illuminate the confounding

[00:03:27] circumstances that led to the demise of Sarma's brand, one lucky duck and her beloved restaurant, Pure Food & Wine. A hip, sexy, nutritious and delicious raw vegan joint in Manhattan, two blocks from the old Nexium Center where on any given night you might have run into Janet Jackson,

[00:03:43] Lil Clinton, Stevie Wonder, and Alec Baldwin. Excuse me. A little bit culty is meant to be a pit stop on the road to healing for survivors. And for those who know what it's like to be led like a culty moth to the flame of narcissism,

[00:03:57] whether in a cult of one or a whole systemized institutional cult, we can't help but look into the dark side of cult survivor narratives when they become entertainment. Now that the trauma coaster has hopefully come to a stop and the press and glare around

[00:04:11] Bad Vegan has died down, we thought it would be important to have Sarma back on. It's important for our listeners to know that what Sarma did was brave and it was necessary to share her story even if the people that produced her story didn't honor her.

[00:04:24] We want to know how she's faring and what's next. With our warmest welcome back, Sarma. We're honored you're here. We're honored you're here. Sarma, welcome back to a little bit culty. I'm so happy to be back. I love talking to you guys. Back in the chat room.

[00:04:54] We love you. Back at you. Just listen to the episode that we recorded with you. I want to say it's like a couple of years ago now. Yeah.

[00:05:02] A year and a half ago and I hadn't listened to it in a while either and I must say I really love that episode. What's crazy is hearing myself talk about, not just talk about what happened but hearing

[00:05:12] myself talking a bit about kind of Bad Vegan and my hopes for it because I hadn't seen it yet. That's right. That was the one and only interview I did before I'd seen it. You know, it's like, oh, I was so naive. That was interesting to hear that.

[00:05:31] It's kind of cool that we did that because normally we don't. Normally we do it after a docs come out. I'm so glad we did. I'm so glad we did.

[00:05:39] For a lot of reasons and it was just interesting some of the things that I said that one of the many things that I got thrown at me after Bad Vegan came out was like, you never

[00:05:48] said you were sorry as if I made the film and edited it or you didn't show any remorse but it's funny how I addressed that in our interview when I hadn't even seen it yet.

[00:06:00] Overall, I knew I did express how crappy I felt about it or whatnot but I'm really, really glad we did that and I really like it. I feel like there really is a lot that's so valuable in there.

[00:06:11] Hopefully anybody listening to this will go back and listen to that one. Definitely. I made the decision for myself not to watch Bad Vegan again because I remember what I didn't like about it.

[00:06:23] It's taken enough of my time and our focus on having you back is more like finding out how you are now and how it's been to deal with all that. Yeah, I've done so many podcasts where I've had to kind of defend myself and correct

[00:06:36] things and what I did and I'm really glad I did it is because I was debating talking to this media outlet or doing an interview here or there kind of in print and finally I just was like no, no, no, I'm just going to write what I

[00:06:49] want to say and put it on my website and maybe that's less exposure but at least it's all in my words and it's there and like I'm controlling the narrative, which obviously is very important. So I'm really glad I did that.

[00:07:01] I mean, I cannot tell you how many people say to me that they watched Bad Vegan, they thought this or they thought that or they were just sort of confused and they found me online. They found my website much appreciation for anyone who read everything

[00:07:13] that I wrote because it's quite long but on my website I wrote this kind of very detailed explanation of the things that were misleading and incorrect and why and kind of answered those questions and kind of tried

[00:07:26] to correct the record and I did have to put out more. I put out a lot more than I had wanted to like I posted this letter that I'd written called Dear Mr. Fox that kind of really tells in a bit

[00:07:35] of a more gut-wrenching way what happened in the form of this angry letter that I'd written to him that I never intended to put anywhere or maybe I would have incorporated some of it in my book draft

[00:07:44] but I put that up there and the number of people who've said to me like they're so glad they read that and you know, they get it now and well the value of podcasts and long form interviews too it's why they're so popular right now, right?

[00:07:57] Because how many times have you had an assessment of someone or whatever intel you've had on them, seen them in a podcast and immediately seen how the portrayal of them was inaccurate and for better or for worse. Not just like oh, they were made bad by the media,

[00:08:14] they're really good people but you can actually see people who've been made good by the media and like hmm, you know so the long form interviews the eyeball test to me are so valuable. I really like podcasts.

[00:08:25] The other thing I got was so many people said like holy shit when I heard you on a little bit culty podcast you sound like a totally different person and I guess, you know, mainly I was sort of more relaxed and had a lot of time had passed

[00:08:38] so I was much more educated on what had happened to myself and it's a very different context talking to you guys when I know you understand than sitting in a studio getting interviewed by people that don't understand on camera that's going to be, you know,

[00:08:52] it's a very different context. And also it's like very carefully edited and whereas this is just our conversation. We're hoping to do it again and for that I made a special lemon ginger green group juice just in your honor to toast you.

[00:09:06] I had my lecture like water, I'll admit to that this morning. Of course. It's great. It's really great. It's good stuff. How the fuck are you doing? How is your life? That is a very good question and here's where I can actually like honestly answer that question

[00:09:20] because I don't know if you guys get this all the time but like people will slide into your dance and they're really nice or with all that. And how are you? How are you doing? I'm like, how do you even answer that question?

[00:09:29] I struggle with that all the time but nowadays I'm actually struggling a bit and it was making me think about how the whole healing and recovery process is not at all linear, right? So like, he might be like doing fine and better kind of early on

[00:09:46] but then for whatever reason like you kind of need to dive back into healing or you know something else happens and you go, oh shit, I trusted somebody again and now I'm getting hurt again and like, oh God, what is going on?

[00:10:00] And then you kind of have to go back into it. So it's not at all like a linear process. I keep thinking about how down the road like if I am suddenly a person with like vast resources how much I would want to create resources

[00:10:13] and support for people on the other side of this because inevitably more often than not you're like financially destroyed and I'm coming at this from the perspective of usually I'm interacting with people who are in a situation the way I was in like a one-on-one situation.

[00:10:28] Not only is it a little bit culty, it's extremely culty, it's entirely culty. Marcus Sendee did this thing about like 25 things about being in a cult or something like that but every single one applies in my situation. So these types of relationships, it's very culty, it's very culty

[00:10:45] not just a little bit culty and so the parallels are all there but yet it's different when you're kind of on your own healing and there's nobody else there who kind of really went through it. That's the distinction of your experience because people hear, oh, nexium

[00:11:00] whatever these other things are they go, oh, I get the con, they know what it is but the cult of one doesn't really seem to have that street cred amongst the impact most people are kind of like how did that happen to you?

[00:11:10] Unless of course it's happened to them and they have a language for it it's more difficult, right? Oh, it's just this one person. Or like kind of manipulated almost like anybody that's been manipulated in any way at least has that understanding of how it could happen

[00:11:24] and I feel like, you know on the other side of bad vegan coming out I know just from all that I've heard from people I know it's really, really helped people who've already been through it because they see that it happened to me too

[00:11:39] and then they feel less alone, right? So that's been extremely valuable it's been valuable for people who've been through it just to see me talking about it and go, oh okay well it happened to her too therefore I feel less stupid I feel less shame or whatever

[00:11:52] that's really gratifying but what's sad is that I think it did very little to nothing for helping people understand who didn't already understand it, right? So there's no kind of explanation for how it happens and in fact, you know, whatever I make the argument that it was like

[00:12:07] deliberately misleading and almost brilliantly done in a way where you can see how people really view it's like people view things they read things, they take things in through their own lens of personal experience so what happens is that like some people saw it one way

[00:12:24] and a lot of other people saw it another way and the people who saw it one way don't understand how the other people saw it the other way so people will say to me like, oh well no you'd have to be a moron to think that like

[00:12:35] you're a criminal and you're in on the con and it's like, all right well then that means there's a lot of those people out there and they're not just like internet trolls I mean, I would hear it from like smart friends of friends who would have watched it

[00:12:51] and come to the conclusion that like somehow I was, I'm a con artist I was in on it I was not expecting that, you know? When people do that do they think you're still doing the con now and you hadn't about face

[00:13:03] and decided to do a documentary about it? Like is that the narrative? Is that really what they're championing? That like you were in on the con and now you're still doing the con? Like now that you're out, it's performative.

[00:13:14] By a lot of people I get lumped into this like Anna Delvy bucket, you know? Because the inventing Anna story so like she's kind of out there doing things, right? But she's kind of the one who did them, you know what I mean?

[00:13:28] So I feel like I get almost pushed into that bucket and what was pointed out to me that I hadn't even really thought of is that there's a lot of people who didn't watch it but they saw all the marketing, right? If that's all you saw

[00:13:41] you would assume that I am like that because you would just see like, you know the advertisements where it says fame, fraud, fugitives and like you would think, oh, here's this woman who was involved in this con

[00:13:52] and the way that the marketing and all that is put forward it looks like that I was the con artist. I was just happy to be able to defend you because you shouldn't have to when people heard that we had interviewed you

[00:14:05] and then I could refer people to it and them go, oh, that really changes thing as I felt very good about that. And I was, you know, on your behalf I was really pissed at the people who made it and we don't have to talk about it anymore.

[00:14:15] I just feel it is a good starting point to talk about like how do these things get made? How do they fucking capitalize? Like how much money did they make? And you're just sitting there as a duck. They made a ton of my money

[00:14:29] and I had been given the impression that at the end of the show they were gonna put in the thing about how, you know I'd gotten this amount of money to repay my employees which was the tiniest amount that was the smallest amount of debt that I owed

[00:14:40] but that was like what weighed the heaviest my employees had been repaid, but that's it. I didn't make money from it but I know, you know, the filmmakers made millions like they made a ton of money. I don't wanna be like whoa is me

[00:14:51] but on the other side of it like I was like alone with this fire hose in my face of a mixture of support and vitriol so it's like, you know, getting hugged and punched at the same time like nonstop all day long

[00:15:05] and it was overwhelming, it was exhausting I was totally alone with it and trying to figure out like what do I do? What do I do? Do I, you know, like Dr. Phil's trying to get me to go on? Do I know I'm not gonna do that?

[00:15:17] It was a really, really overwhelming time and it was really frustrating to have to be on the defense. The contrast is for example one of the situations that I think most mirrors my own which people wouldn't expect is the Sarah Lawrence story, stolen youth.

[00:15:33] That guy, the Larry Ray he seems the most similar to, you know, Mr. Fox that guy, his psychology, what he did his own, you know, the fact that he sort of also seems to be delusional himself it's like a little unclear

[00:15:48] so much about that situation resonated so deeply for me and so listening to, you know I know you guys interviewed, I think Daniel and they were interviewed again recently by Dr. Romani and listening to those I was a bit floored by it

[00:16:03] in a way where I just felt really sad because listening to it was so hard because so much of Felicia's experience resonated so many things and I'm listening to it and I'm listening to Dr. Romani like at every turn validating everything, you know

[00:16:19] like yes, because he was this and yes kind of validating it in this way that I was like, oh, that's really comforting I just got really sad cause I was like, I want that anybody kind of on the other side of this

[00:16:30] if you're gonna go out into the media like yeah, you wanna be really careful where you're going I was gonna say it's symptomatic of the problem and why I think it's important to tell your story you unfortunately ran into people

[00:16:41] that claim they're gonna be sensitive to your story didn't have really the capacity to be sensitive to your story because they don't really see it that way one of our people that did ours that directed ours took our training so had firsthand experience of like the con

[00:16:55] You know, if you look at the platform even though this was made and then it was sold I think they knew all along it was gonna go to Netflix cause the director has a relationship with them so I think it was pretty clear that's where it was going

[00:17:05] but more and more I'm seeing that there's this understanding that Netflix airs a certain type of show which is maybe more like kind of flashy glamour like entertainment oriented and that's why I make the argument in what I wrote online that there should be another category called docutainment

[00:17:21] it should be another category versus documentary you know, a straight up documentary you shouldn't be intentionally confusing people you shouldn't be intentionally misleading people you shouldn't have people come to the end of it and like half the people think one thing and half the people think other thing

[00:17:35] if it's based on fact so whereas, you know, other places like HBO and Hulu their documentaries seem more like serious documentaries and I mean, I watched The Vow and it was certainly a very different tone We're in good hands with HBO Nancy Abrams and Lisa Heller

[00:17:51] when we were going through this and there was a point where Keith was arrested he was gonna go to jail I was like why would I be in this anymore? Like, you know, my punch is thrown I wanna get my wife and family out of this

[00:18:02] and I went to them and was kind of like hey look, I don't know if I really wanna be in this anymore cause I didn't need to be and they were great I mean, they clearly understood it and they had done Neverland I think

[00:18:11] and everything they've done is pretty good But Sarma, that was one of the questions for you is what advice do you have to people who've come out of something like this and helping them figure out like do they wanna be public? What have you learned?

[00:18:23] How would you suggest people go about doing something like you did? What questions would you ask differently now that you know what you know? Yeah, I mean, that's a good question One of the things that sort of became clear to me that I feel better about is

[00:18:34] this clear understanding for myself that like what happened was not my fault, right? But at the same time, there are things about me that made it possible, right? Which is a very different thing and the thing is the thing to understand is like

[00:18:48] most of those things are generally good characteristics, right? It's like what makes you vulnerable is you have a tendency to believe people you have a tendency to believe people are good you trust too easily a variety of things but part of that trusting too easily

[00:19:03] that doesn't change, it carries over so I trusted that the film would be done with integrity or you know the show or whatever you wanna call it. So you know, I think really moving forward carefully in that I would be really wary of

[00:19:17] I mean, I guess you'd wanna look at somebody's past projects and what they've done before and what their own experiences are and what the intention is and get as much in writing as possible I suppose there has been a lot of talk about

[00:19:28] like maybe doing a series where there's sort of a bunch of stories and each one is like an episode or something and I would potentially be involved in something like that in which case I would trust me because I've been through it, you know?

[00:19:42] So if there was somebody there who's like an advocate for you who's been through it, right? So imagine if like in Bad Vegan you, Sarah and Nippy were like co-producers you know, you would be all over it, right? Right. And so any situation where

[00:19:56] you're not dealing with people who don't understand what you've been through I think is important. And even if they're well meaning, well intentioned people I mean one way or another just the more protections you can get, the better and I think also the more time that goes by

[00:20:09] the more you understand. So had production started on it now versus then my interviews would have been different because there's so many times where in Bad Vegan where I'm asked questions there's things where I probably still wouldn't know but instead of kind of going I don't remember

[00:20:24] and then he put in the film like me going I don't remember but in a way that almost makes it seem like I'm lying as a put, you know like I think those things were kind of interspersed in there I would argue intentionally

[00:20:36] such that if your lens was to like maybe not trust me and not believe me then you're like you're getting confirmation for that. You're reinforced. Right. By these like bits and pieces included where I kind of go like I don't remember there's even parts where like

[00:20:51] he asks me questions where I don't want to answer it because to answer it honestly I would have had to say something bad about somebody else and I didn't want to and so I sort of hesitate you know all these little things that make it look like

[00:21:02] I'm lying or can't be trusted I think you guys talked about this too is like it's hard it's not very safe to go out and do a bunch of interviews like right on the other side of this stuff when you're still kind of in that shocked traumatized state

[00:21:15] which really I think as you guys know takes a while to wear off and you don't even realize it Right. You don't even realize it when you're in it, right you're like oh I'm out I'm fine I got to tell the story

[00:21:24] I got to warn people about all this shit and then like later you're like oh my god I wasn't even in my body I was like Exactly. Fighter flight. For more background on what brought us here check out my page turning memoir it's called Scarred

[00:21:37] the true story of how I escaped Nexium the cult that bound my life it's available on Amazon, Audible and at most bookstores and if you want to see that story in streaming form you can watch both seasons of The Vow on HBO This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp

[00:21:54] What are your self-care non-negotiables? Maybe you never skip leg day or never miss yoga maybe it's getting eight hours of sleep I mean that's my personal and everyone's dream isn't it? Well I definitely have some non-negotiables like I'm in Vancouver right now

[00:22:08] and I'm spending literally as much time as I can outside in nature Hashtag cold pools, hashtag crushing it Nature is a non-negotiable not enough time in the fresh air and the trees around me and I start to feel not great not myself not grounded

[00:22:20] Therapy Day is a bit like my nature walks I try to not miss it and I know I'm just gonna feel so much better all around if I make it a priority I get so much out of it It helps me put my worries and anxieties

[00:22:31] in their rightful place and helps me clear my mind so I can focus on what I really need and sometimes what I don't need like I don't need to be overbooking myself just because I hate to say no to people you know what I mean? Thanks Therapy!

[00:22:41] Thanks for helping me see that And if you're thinking of starting therapy give BetterHelp a try It's entirely online designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule Just fill out a brief questionnaire and get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime

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[00:23:07] Visit BetterHelp.com slash Coltty today to get 10% off your first month That's BetterHelp H-E-L-P dot com slash Coltty Meals bring people together but for many families providing their next meal can be a challenge You can help by participating in Macy's annual Feeding the Hungry Food Drive

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[00:23:42] in our local communities at Macy's You've heard from our sponsors now let's get back to a little bit Coltty shall we? There were periods of time where I was like alright, you know I'm fine like not I'm fine but I felt very much more kind of confident

[00:23:57] and felt like I'd gotten past it and then I realized no no no I have not at all gotten past this and there's like more work to do there's more healing to do Yeah you're right Theron I should be producing on these things Oh, let's be consulted

[00:24:10] You need someone who believes you unequivocally Well and also you need somebody there because I was talking to a producer about this and I was like my involvement would be useful because I could intervene if you know the subject was being asked

[00:24:21] questions that were like the equivalent of like well why didn't you leave? You know it's like no no no you can't ask that question you know like I could be an advocate for that person I called those were you wearing a short skirt questions Yes

[00:24:35] Oh that's so good Yes Oh my god You know what you can fuck right off that's what I would say Exactly Exactly You tell them Sarah Wait a minute You just tell them That's one of the things that chaps my ass and I'm sure you've thought about this

[00:24:48] but just for our audience to really think about what it means to go through something like what you went through to be betrayed by somebody to be manipulated, coerced, betrayed, used and then to do it all over again with a fucking production company

[00:25:03] I mean the level of horrific I'm so mad at them I'm not even Netflix I don't know it's not Netflix really it's the people right Yeah I mean Netflix didn't make it but the way Netflix marketed it and really Right that's true

[00:25:17] I had very little involvement with them just a little bit with sort of the kind of PR side of it but I was all ready to cooperate I thought like on the other side of it I'd be out there like doing promotion for it and like talking about

[00:25:31] you know all the productive things and like talking about how it's misunderstood in the criminal justice system and being sort of an advocate and instead it was like you know they knew what was gonna happen so it was like just cut off and then I'm on my own

[00:25:43] and I mean the thing that was so astonishing too was that like perpetual pups weird video campaign they did Who was that? Oh my god don't even tell me Oh did you see that? It's like a one minute long video and it was this weird campaign

[00:25:57] where like if you go on Twitter if you're like a dog person it was like this promoted tweet it looked like a company called Perpetual Pups and you're like oh what's this and you click on it kind of realize obviously by the end of it

[00:26:07] that it is a parody but it's like they show people kind of running on the beach with their dogs and it's like do you want your dog to live forever and it's this whole thing and I found it cruel not like necessarily on my behalf

[00:26:19] I mean I found it cruel on my behalf but also you're preying on people's love for their pets anyway it's like this it's this thing that meant to suck you in and then you click on it and it's actually a link for Bad Vegan

[00:26:30] but it's like making fun of me the whole thing is like this spoof kind of totally making fun of me How horrific who made that? That was Netflix? Netflix yeah and I really like to this day I would be genuinely so curious to sit in a room with

[00:26:45] whoever came up with that and then it went through the chain of approval and whatever I'd want to be like did you really think that that was like cool you know like funny appropriate appropriate you know because again like just take it a little bit further

[00:26:59] like would you make some equivalent ad like that say you made a show about Harvey Weinstein and all of his victims right would you make some sort of an ad that makes fun of them you know what I mean like is that would that be okay?

[00:27:10] where's the line? Do you want to be a famous actress? Come up to my hotel room Netflix made that? yeah shame that was really a bummer yeah so they can go fuck themselves but really it was the filmmakers and so the other thing that is

[00:27:25] I'm glad that I have the awareness of the mind bendingness of it is that people kind of involved or who might want to get me to do it again which is a thing have kind of said to me like no it really wasn't misleading

[00:27:37] nobody thought that you were in on it no no no everybody saw through that bit at the end where you're laughing on the phone with him like nobody took that seriously no you're imagining it like it really was fine what is that? it's like gaslighting

[00:27:52] but so people trying to maybe get me to do something like that again and saying no no your experience isn't real because that isn't real maybe that was just one or two people but no no it wasn't really bad at all it's actually it was fine

[00:28:06] and no no it wasn't and it wasn't just a handful of people and it wasn't just a few internet trolls it was like friends of friends and just random experiences like I had I got in a fight with this guy at the dog park

[00:28:17] and I don't fight with anybody except if people are like being dicks so that you know it was a dog park situation where somebody was kind of endangering the the safety of the dogs there and this guy was like I know who you are you're the bad vegan

[00:28:30] this is the first in-person troll there've been others but this was just like yeah it was just so unexpected and out of context of anything to do with it that like the way he said it he was like I know who you are you're the bad vegan

[00:28:43] as if he was like outing me and and going I know who you are you're you know you're the bad vegan the way he said it was like wait a minute well how'd you respond what'd you do I think I was kind of in shock

[00:28:55] when he said that yeah but I was in a very defiant mood because I was defending dogs the guy was such a douchebag the guy was such a douchebag that it was easier not to take it personally right but it struck me that like that it was interesting

[00:29:09] that that's his perception is that he's almost like he felt like he had one over on me like he's calling me out on knowing that I'm this bad person so if anyone's ever in doubt about what Netflix did or didn't do

[00:29:21] just the fact that they even named it bad vegan yeah this is the indictment right like it already says you're the bad vegan okay it's not like is she a bad vegan it's sounds like that's the thesis I you know again I mean

[00:29:34] I knew that's what it was gonna be called but I sort of not I you know again and I even thought that that was sort of the title because that's the way the tabloids had portrayed me right right and so that the the story would be like look

[00:29:45] this is how she was portrayed by the tabloids oh I see but really she's not and this is the truth right they could have named it the good vegan no the adventures of a vegan and I never even like gave myself the title of a vegan so

[00:29:58] my book is a whole process it's been like almost done for a really long time and then I've been pulled away even working on bad vegan took an enormous amount of time like a huge amount of my time and energy so I just have a beef with these

[00:30:15] things that call themselves documentaries and they're not necessarily and they're clearly gonna make a lot of money from it and they consume everybody's time not just mine but also all the other people they interviewed even if they don't use it that in itself is is a thing

[00:30:27] but so that you know I got distracted by that then the aftermath of it and then moving back here into the city and like potential projects and things and whatnot and so I've been distracted by sort of one thing after another and I really just want to

[00:30:39] finish it and I really really really want to get it out and I mean the good news is it is almost done I mean it's so almost done it's also incredibly long and what I might end up doing is putting out a sort of condensed version

[00:30:53] which is like a more normal book size version but then also putting out the really long version because part of what is useful about the really long version is that you get a lot more background into my life and everything that I include about my personal background

[00:31:07] I included it because I felt like it was relevant to you know how I ended up in this situation you know like this is the type of a person that I was that kind of is relevant to what happens later on and also just understanding you know

[00:31:20] maybe my psychology and how I grew up and all that but then also Mr. Fox some of it is like coming along with me on this journey because while I've been writing it I'm sort of trying to figure out like how did this happen

[00:31:31] and kind of very much pointing out you know things that don't really make sense or things that I'm trying to understand or like isn't that interesting and also just going through what happened over and over again and so a person reading it really kind of

[00:31:45] comes along with me on the experience in a way that they wouldn't in a much shorter version so my feeling is to kind of maybe put both out which is also why I've been wanting to self publish it because of my cookbooks it's like right

[00:31:57] it was frustrated that like on my second cookbook I hate the cover I mean it's not horrible but I hate it it's not what I would have chosen you know and yet it's me on the cover and so having been through that experience were like

[00:32:09] they ultimately have control that's why I was like I'm gonna self publish it totally but I also know now that you can develop contracts where you have control I feel like when you self publish you cut off a lot of options also I think that there's also like

[00:32:24] the stigma of the appearance that if you self publish it's because you couldn't get a publishing deal right you know but I think that's like it's not gonna be long before that changes the list of pros and cons it's pretty it's pretty clear I should self publish it

[00:32:38] even though you're not gonna get your books as easily into like Walmart I'd rather have the trade off of controlling the timing controlling every output along the way like basically like I still own it one of the misperceptions is that I must have like a team of people

[00:32:55] and kind of an operation and a no there's no team of people here it's like me and me and Leon how can we use our platform to do a little make a phone do do do announcement what would you want people to know about where you are now

[00:33:10] and what needs to be cleared up good question I mean it's out there now that I move back to I'm in this apartment where I am because it's close to the restaurant space and then I move back to reopen the restaurant

[00:33:20] but that's kind of all up in the air right now and there's a bit of behind the scenes drama but that's why it's been stalled there's so many things on the horizon some of them really good and I'm really excited about but until

[00:33:32] some of them start to happen I continue to be in a very challenged situation so I have to worry about how am I going to get by how am I going to pay Leon's vet bills what am I going to do about my rent and like

[00:33:43] I'm not very good at promoting myself right so I have a hard time being like hey join my Patreon like buy these t-shirts do this thing I guess really hard for me and not only is it hard for me but then

[00:33:56] that person who then slides into my comments and calls me a grifter which is like to be called the thing that is describing the perpetrator who happened to you is like uniquely gut wrenching and really hits no matter how like you'd have to be like super strong

[00:34:14] to not let that get to you it's really hard so therefore it's very easy to be sort of like shamed back into a corner how dare I come out and you know put something out there for sale or you know ask for anything at all

[00:34:27] you know I tried I do have a Patreon it's funny because I when I first started it I thought like alright well you know I'll post like you know some recipes and like little tips and things that's kind of how I started it and

[00:34:38] it's funny because what it turned into is actually something really sweet it's like a smaller community than I imagined but like it's kind of turned into this sounds like an overused term but it's kind of turned into like this safe space

[00:34:50] it sucks because you don't want to have to have people have to pay on the one hand but also it sort of weeds out kind of the troll community and it keeps it more private but what it's turned into is like I'm not posting recipes anymore

[00:35:03] it's almost like an online journal so I can go on there and I could post things that I wouldn't necessarily put on Instagram and I can write things about what's going on and how I'm feeling or what I'm struggling with in a very honest way

[00:35:14] and it's become like this sort of tight little community of people where they're very understanding of that and they've stuck around for that reason and they want to support you they want to support you yeah exactly then there's sort of always this trade-off

[00:35:26] of like well how much time do I spend on that versus how much time do I spend on my book and like the things that I need to do for my future and kind of trying to like sort out this drama that I'm in right now

[00:35:37] and also kind of how to present myself because I'm in this funny situation where because there's this opportunity to reopen my restaurant which is to stop and think about what that means you know to reopen the same place in the same location and it's funny because in interviews

[00:35:53] before I ever even thought that was a possibility people would ask me would you want to get back into the restaurant business and I would always say no but unless it was the same restaurant in the same space you know with like

[00:36:04] a lot of the same people coming back then I would do it and then that opportunity came around because nobody had ever permanently rented out that space and it's there and I have keys to it but I don't have the lease and the person who has it

[00:36:17] we're in a bit of a dispute what's fascinating is that all of these things come back up about like wait a minute how did I get into this situation and all of these issues about trust and I shouldn't have trusted you know it gets me thinking too about

[00:36:30] am I in this pattern where I keep getting into situations where people think that they can kind of control me I think the dynamics of what happened obviously what happened with Mr. Fox is an extreme but these kinds of dynamics happen over and over again

[00:36:45] until you really wake up to it not wake up to it but really really really really really really understand it and the other hard thing is that on the other side of this I think I said this earlier people are almost always in an even more vulnerable position

[00:37:00] than they were than when they were vulnerable enough to get into what they got into in the first place right because you're now destroyed on the other side of it and so you're in a position of like unfortunately really needing help and you like need support

[00:37:11] and you need help and so I have some very close friends and some people who are like around and supportive and that means everything but then you're also very open to people coming around and being like oh hmm you know here's this person all in a vulnerable position

[00:37:25] I think I can get something here or I think I can take control of this and you know exploit it and turn it into something so I think that these these dynamics happen like on a less extreme scale not just in personal circumstances but in business circumstances too

[00:37:41] hmm I have certain red flags that are not just in personal relationships somebody says to you they're not going to do the thing that it didn't occur to you that they would do they're probably going to do it you know what I mean

[00:37:53] like if you were going to do a business deal and somebody said to you like look I'm not going to fuck you over you're like wait a minute I didn't think that you would why did you feel the need to say that

[00:38:01] my dad and I would always joke when someone starts starts a sentence I'm not racist but yeah why would you yeah or like this emphasis I'm like you need to trust me you need to trust me you need to trust me do you trust me

[00:38:16] that is a huge red flag because it's like well I do I did but like now I'm realizing yeah that was a mistake I mean I'm sure you guys are aware of like darvo right which I think is such a useful concept to understand it's you know

[00:38:30] deny attack reverse victim offender and basically it's like if you kind of point out something somebody's done that's wrong and they immediately turn it around and make themselves the victim I mean that happens in all kinds of contexts and I've dealt with it in in like business relationships

[00:38:46] mm-hmm you have the wisdom now and your relationships are going to be changing right you're reentering the world that you left with the new sense of self with relationships you've probably trained a certain way and you're training them differently now and you're getting pushed back yeah potentially

[00:39:01] I mean I would guess you have wisdom now right well yeah and also the wisdom to know that what's worrisome is that you know if you get into a situation and you're dependent on somebody you're gonna keep making excuses for their shitty behavior right so if they're not

[00:39:16] like treating you with the respect that they should but you're dependent on them you're gonna let it slide let it slide let it slide because you're dependent on them right so basically what I had to do was like walk away from a situation where now it's like

[00:39:29] I basically have no net things are scary but I'd rather be in that situation than be attached to something where I'm gonna be you know controlled and something that I know is wrong right so it's you know I guess the personal equivalent would be like

[00:39:45] just kind of leaving a relationship being on your own even if you're like financially vulnerable yeah but that's better than being stuck in something that you know is bad so it's kind of having that understanding that so well that you're willing to go

[00:39:58] okay you know what one way or another if I walk away it's gonna work out like it's gonna work out and it's gonna be better because I might be scared things might be challenging and scary but that's better than being attached

[00:40:09] in a situation that you know isn't right for you and then just kind of keeping that faith that like it's gonna work out it's gonna work out it's gonna work out you know it's better to be free exactly and also like really paying attention to how you feel

[00:40:23] mm-hmm your gut has all that wisdom that we don't even understand how it has the wisdom that it does and how it's trying to communicate it to us right and so the more you stop and pay attention to that so if you think about like that's awesome

[00:40:35] you know all the meetings I had with like a certain person and people how did I feel during and after them well I felt sick to my stomach I felt icky I felt terrible I felt mis... like not understood not heard I felt just bad like eugh

[00:40:52] everything about it felt bad and then it's like well here's some other people that you could work with or here's another situation and how do you feel when you talk to those people how do you feel in those meetings and it's like well in these meetings

[00:41:02] I feel energized I feel inspired I feel excited well you know that's the way to go and it doesn't matter if one on paper maybe seems like that makes sense because of these reasons or people are telling you like this is the way to go because you know

[00:41:17] this seems like the safer route but it's like that one makes me feel really bad and this one that might seem much riskier actually makes me feel really good right so having the experience to understand that all day long you want to go with the one

[00:41:30] that makes you feel really good even if it seems riskier and other people are telling you that maybe you should go the other way This podcast wouldn't happen without our amazing supportive generous patrons Are you with us? Come find us over on Patreon at patreon.com

[00:41:46] slash a little bit Coltie for bonus episodes exclusive content and the occasional zoom with our fan favorites from our past episodes it's a lot of fun over there people Meals bring people together but for many families providing their next meal can be a challenge

[00:42:06] You can help by participating in Macy's annual Feeding the Hungry food drive All proceeds go toward local food banks and families Now through January 31st you can purchase an icon in store or online or watch out for the blue feeding the hungry shelf tags

[00:42:22] where a portion of your purchase will be donated to local pantries Together we can combat hunger in our local communities at Macy's This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp What are your self-care non-negotiables? Maybe you never skip leg day or never miss yoga

[00:42:38] maybe it's getting eight hours of sleep I mean that's my personal and everyone's dream isn't it? Well I definitely have some non-negotiables like I'm in Vancouver right now and I'm spending literally as much time as I can outside of nature Hashtag cold pools hashtag crushing it

[00:42:53] Nature is a non-negotiable not enough time in the fresh air and the trees around me and I start to feel not great, not myself, not grounded Therapy day is a bit like my nature walks I try to not miss it and I know I'm just gonna feel

[00:43:04] so much better all around if I make it a priority I get so much out of it It helps me put my worries and anxieties in their rightful place and helps me clear my mind so I can focus on what I really need

[00:43:14] and sometimes what I don't need like I don't need to be overbooking myself just because I hate to say no to people you know what I mean? Thanks Therapy Thanks for helping me see that and if you're thinking of starting therapy give BetterHelp a try it's entirely online

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[00:43:59] let's get back to this episode of A Little Bit Culty it's a good one The only challenge I would just say and I agree with you is just this caveat at least for me that sometimes I have felt really good because I was also being love bombed

[00:44:11] I felt community and love and all those yummy things that overrode any tinglings in my gut do you know what I mean? Yeah that's what's scary about getting into a situation where you're dependent on somebody or where it would be hard to get out of it

[00:44:26] it's like agreeing to like move into somebody's place if you're not 100% and that doesn't apply to me but like if you get into a relationship with somebody that would be hard to get out of then you're gonna rationalize you know the red flags or shitty behavior or whatnot

[00:44:40] and it's gonna be harder to get out of Yeah I'm time and time again examining my own behavior my own thoughts and I think that what's so important on the other side of this and it's hard because it's really hard for a lot of people

[00:44:53] especially like if you have kids and you're trying to work and get by and whatnot but having like a lone time quiet time and time to like stop and reflect and think it's the opposite of what you know the cult leader manipulator does

[00:45:07] which is to keep you in an exhausted state so you don't have time to stop or reflect right? You know it's like they keep you exhausted and kind of going going going going well you could be kind of like exhausted and going going going because you're in like

[00:45:19] you know you're working really hard and you're doing all these things that are positive but you know really like guarding your alone time and whatever it is listening to podcasts journaling and evaluating kind of what you're going through and allowing yourself the space to have insights

[00:45:35] that's been really helpful for me because it happens to me all the time where I'll hear something or I'll be thinking about something and they'll realize like oh this like business situation it's kind of similar to that it kind of feels like that

[00:45:47] and just having that space is so incredibly important Well I want you to know that our Patreon we'd let them know that we're talking to you today and all of them were so I mean this is our safe space too right? Yeah Our Patreon and everyone's just like

[00:46:02] oh send her our love and she's amazing somebody wants to know Karen, Juliana wants to know if you'd start a book club which I think would be a great idea you could do that on your Patreon too a book club with you Yeah I know

[00:46:14] I love reading and I love reading books and I love talking about books and because people have asked me that and people ask me about what are my favorite books all the time and I have this habit of like starting things

[00:46:23] and then I don't quite get to finish it like I sort of went back to my Pinterest page because I was like oh I have a Pinterest page I haven't looked at in years and so I kind of deleted all the old shit and I started putting

[00:46:35] all the books that I really like so that when people say hey what are your favorite books I could just be like hey go to this link and here's my favorite books and here's all the ones that are like fiction and novels

[00:46:44] and here's the one that are like my favorite self-help books and here's my favorite whatever so I started to do stuff like that yeah it'd be fun to have a book club but I also kind of have to be realistic about not doing anything that's not

[00:46:54] going to be necessary or help me pay my bills to be honest my Patreon has become like you know like a couple weeks go by and I just haven't posted anything and what's amazing is like the people that are there like they're like we don't care

[00:47:05] we get it that they're not expecting me to post you know some new recipe or something like that but then when I do post it's like I'm very for better or worse it's like I'm very honest and open about what's going on and struggles and then also

[00:47:19] you know when I learn something that's been really helpful to me or you know insights or some book that I read or a podcast that I thought was really valuable I try to share that stuff there I love your tears by the way just looked it up

[00:47:31] Ducklings, Big Ducks and VIP Ducks oh yeah so if anyone's listening and feels compelled to support in the safe space the other thing is like there's a newsletter sign up on my website and the funny thing is if I could clone myself or I had an assistant

[00:47:46] I could leverage that and start kind of sending out emails about what's going on but the nice thing about my mail jump account is I have the list from way back when so all the people that were on our like Pure Food and Wine list

[00:47:57] it's a lot of emails amazing I was thinking are they gonna ask me what chaps my ass yes yes and just it happened again just recently and it's like what really chaps my ass so a hard part about kind of being public about this is all the

[00:48:15] dealing with all the incoming and there's this segments of really well meaning but totally off base advice that you get I'm sure you guys dealt with that a lot yes like oh you should just do this and you're like you don't understand but what happens a lot

[00:48:29] I just want to like call these people out because I feel like there's a special karmic place for them because I do read most of my DMs and people will say nice things I try to respond and acknowledge it even if I don't have the capacity

[00:48:42] to like have ongoing conversations and I've met a lot of women who've been through similar things men who've been through very manipulative situations I hear it all and I like to connect with people there both what happens and what happened again recently and how is the people

[00:48:58] always dudes that slide into the DMs and they're like so how much money would it take to clear your debt and I'm like what oh I get this all a lot they'll slide into my DMs and act like they want to like pay off my debt

[00:49:12] or like how much would it take to reopen your restaurant because you know I like as if they are are just going to suddenly be that savior and it's like wait a minute think about what happened to me and think about the situation that I'm in

[00:49:24] and to slide in in that way and it's like I can't immediately dismiss it because I actually have legitimately you know I've filtered through those and I have I have met a couple of people who are legit amazing good people who are like yes I want to invest

[00:49:40] in a restaurant and I want to invest in your upcoming projects and like I'm here when you're ready and that's great that's amazing but there's been a lot of people that slide in there and they're just like it's like no you're you're like a creepy dude

[00:49:52] that just wants to chit chat and be gross and always it's like a private account there's a special place somewhere for those people karmically yeah there's a big ass chapping there that really chaps my ass those people who do that it's like get the fuck out of my

[00:50:06] DMs go away can I ask like four questions from our Patreon yeah yeah rapid fire okay how has it been since we spoke last about rebuilding your team repairing relationships have there been some powerful reconciliations since we spoke to you last I don't really know

[00:50:23] how to answer that question I mean for example all of the former employees that were featured in Bad Vegan like we're all in great terms like I've spoken to all of them or friends you know I'm friends with a lot of my former employees

[00:50:34] I've seen a lot of them it's been really really nice to get together with some of them one of my former pastry chefs brought me a couple of things like she brought me a Malomar and I cried and she brought me two of them

[00:50:46] and so one of them might eat and the other ones in my freezer it's like that you know how like when people get married they save a piece of their wedding cake and it's like and it might like who knows it probably is has freezer burn or whatever

[00:50:56] but you're like gonna save it for I have a Malomar in my in my freezer right now so it's been really nice connecting with former employees but also kind of in this very interesting like bittersweet way because a lot of it's been in the context of reopening

[00:51:10] and coming back and now all of a sudden it's like is it gonna happen is it not am I gonna be set free am I not and now I don't know and so I've been kind of living in this state of uncertainty in so many areas

[00:51:23] and I think that's been really heavy I think that's probably what's caused this sort of emotional setback is all the uncertainty so it's like I don't know my home isn't certain my I don't have any certain income I don't know nothing is certain

[00:51:35] you know the restaurant is uncertain everything's uncertain and that's created this constant level of existing low grade stress that's that's made it a bit harder for me on a day to day basis that makes sense when you're talking earlier about recovery not being linear I feel like stress

[00:51:52] and things being like even like you said with this person who you have a conflict with around the lease like it's just like the wound is still so raw so anything that feels even remotely unsettling kind of retrigger the lease is what it's been like for me

[00:52:05] it's like rocks me in a way that wouldn't rock a normal person it's like oh it's just a you know contractual debate we'll figure it out it's like oh I feel betrayed all over again and it's like it sends me reeling so I don't know if that's

[00:52:17] similar for you in that way yeah that's definitely part of it there's just a lot of pressure because having a lot of debts is a lot of pressure and you don't know how hard it's gonna come down on you what the terms are it's not like it's this

[00:52:30] controlled thing and I know precisely what it is and okay these are the payments I have to make it's like it's very all over the place and the uncertainty is draining I think that's what it is I think it's draining a lot of energy

[00:52:41] when there's all this uncertainty right because there's that thing called decision fatigue it's like why certain oh yeah you know like Silicon Valley types will like just wear the same thing every day because it's like alright eliminate that decision but on a greater scale when like

[00:52:55] you constantly are trying to decide like well okay should I spend money on this thing that like maybe we'll help with this and bring this or like should I not or should I invest my time in this which might have this return and then

[00:53:08] should I be worrying about this and how can I focus on this when I have to worry about that and all this uncertainty is energy draining so I think that that's been the biggest thing that's been going on most of this year is just this this energy drain

[00:53:21] that's been difficult the other thing that's been kind of like just like going on a bit of a tangent but I think is interesting and something that I've noticed is and I'm sure you guys dealt with this is what's so interesting is is sort of reevaluating your

[00:53:33] relationship with like a certain type of faith and spirituality and belief and what's so dangerous is how you see how that was manipulated in the past and I notice now and I don't know if I'm noticing it or if it's like the algorithms making me notice it

[00:53:49] but kind of like this very nice almost like an awakening going on I don't know if you've noticed that but what's dangerous is that like it's such a slippery slope from getting yourself to a place where you feel kind of comforted by a certain type of

[00:54:05] belief or spirituality but then it's this very slippery slope into that world of cultiness Oh yeah Yeah constantly Yeah I'm sort of keeping an eye on all that stuff what I notice so often is I hear people in very positive contexts and positive healing

[00:54:22] things and people and whatnot saying things that I go oh my god Mr. Fox said the same thing but now I'm hearing it in a positive context it's really really kind of interesting and fascinating No, it's actually come up in our podcast

[00:54:36] it actually came up in our podcast with Dr. Shafali about the people you know that are manipulating know exactly what to say Exactly look like some are real some aren't what you're saying is very relative Yeah And also it's like one of the things

[00:54:48] I've been really thinking about and we're going to address this more in response to the response to Dr. Shafali is that I almost feel like in the whole let's teach people the red flags that pointing out red flags has become a little bit

[00:55:01] okay so I'm trying to say is when you see a red flag it's something for you to pause and take note of and document it doesn't necessarily mean always the thing is the thing if like Nancy for example drank coffee right Nancy from Nextium drinks coffee

[00:55:14] and I meet you know some person I'm going to go into business with and they drink coffee is that a red flag or is that something that the person did do you know what I mean so it could be a red flag oh like all sociopaths drink coffee

[00:55:27] right maybe maybe not and I'm using up a nine example so people don't get their knickers in a knot about it because the question is is the person good or bad the red flag like I could do something that could be a red flag like I'm you know

[00:55:41] I'm selling Patreon you're selling Patreon is it a red flag well maybe if you're not into like earning money for what you do or capitalism is a problem for you or whatever like whatever the thing is my point is is that things are going to

[00:55:53] be a red flag for somebody and not for somebody else you know what I mean like how do you determine I think one of the things about red flags to point out is that yes you want to be aware of them and you want to evaluate them

[00:56:03] but I feel like it comes back around to that question of trust so I will very often you know I'll do things like email sections of my book to people and somebody will be like well do you trust them and it's like well okay but what's the downside

[00:56:15] right so when you're thinking about whether to trust somebody in a situation and evaluating red flags you know if you're able to really think about it clearly is like what's the potential downside right so if something's a red flag you want to notice it and pay attention

[00:56:30] and it depends on the context like you're dating somebody and getting to a relationship with them or entering into a business agreement where you can't get out of it what are the potential consequences so if the potential consequences are disaster you want to really really really really

[00:56:44] really pay attention to those right like I could maybe trust too easily and being too open about certain things or I don't know maybe giving away too much information or but is it something that could be weaponized against me right so

[00:56:57] you know you just want to be really guarded with you know anything that could be used against you I guess you guys know that from like all the collateral gathering and whatnot is that's where you want to be really careful if somebody's reaching out to you

[00:57:10] on the socials if they don't have social media at all that's a potential red flag because if their life isn't out there if they aren't identified as who they are with their life and here's where they work and here's their family and here's their friends

[00:57:24] then that's a potential red flag do you know where they work have they worked there a long time do you know their co-workers have they said good things about them right you want to evaluate them but yes in the context right there's not like specific

[00:57:36] like every person who doesn't have a profile is a con artist no like yeah think about it that's really good advice and and the conversation to be continued that Nipi and I are kind of grappling with in this season so I'm just gonna summarize these amazing Patreon questions

[00:57:51] basically everyone's fully supportive of a book fully supportive of the restaurant many people just wish to hug you and make sure that you thrive and that's the general theme from our safe space Patreon so thank you people and Sarma I'll say one thing too it's like

[00:58:05] when people say negative things about you and this is actually paraphrasing some of the stuff that we learned in our curriculum so when people say negative things about you it's an opportunity for you to demonstrate otherwise and I think if people are paying attention to you

[00:58:18] in the last year and a half, two years they're gonna see that if they don't see it now they're gonna see it eventually yeah I mean over time it gets easier to yeah I'm kind of used to a lot of the negative stuff that's that's to be expected

[00:58:31] but the stuff that I didn't expect is is hard to deal with and so hopefully some of the things I'm working on now in the future will will clear a lot of that up and in a useful way because really what I wanted with my story

[00:58:43] is for it to be useful right like I want it to be helpful to other people and not just people who've been through it or might be through it but the people around them because that's really hard too it's like it's really hard when you feel like

[00:58:56] to your family and close friends don't understand and so if talking about my story could help the people around the people to whom this has happened understand better then that's also really helpful so that's you know that's among the goals absolutely

[00:59:12] well I can't wait to see where it lands yes how's Leon's health oh he's like laying right here oh there he is hi Leon zonked out beside me I mean he's 13 and a half he's doing really really well for his age although you know

[00:59:27] he was hospitalized a couple of times with a heart issue he's got a bit of a mystery issue right now with some thing related to the gland on his tail and the fur is falling out and but I put updates on his social media

[00:59:41] and Leon's got a lot of fans but he's doing well for his age and you know it's a lot I mean I think a lot about people who have kids on the other side of this and how much work that is when I think like

[00:59:53] you know how much work it is with Leon and me I think it must be that and so much more when people have been through this kind of trauma and situation and they've also got kids still after and protect from their healing process too abusers

[01:00:08] to protect from abusers but also your own you know it's hard when you're when you're kind of crying and upset and I feel bad when Leon's around and I'm having it I'm crying and upset so it must be really hard when people have kids too

[01:00:22] of course our audience I know is going to want to support you our audience has paid for people's therapy they've sent computers to people who needed them they've gone above and beyond and one of those people actually is our Patreon member and also friend Ken Bernstein from Nashville

[01:00:35] who had a question for you totally random have you seen the bear on Hulu about the restaurant industry? That is so interesting because somebody on my Patreon just asked me the very same thing because they wanted my opinion on it and it's weird

[01:00:48] because people keep talking about that show and I don't watch anything like I got rid of my TV I have an iPad for when I want to watch a bit of news or something specific but I don't watch a lot I did watch most of the bear

[01:01:00] I think I watched season one and most of season two I'm glad I did for a number of reasons but it's a great show and the thing that's so notable about it is if you're in the restaurant business and maybe this happens with a lot of different industries

[01:01:13] or businesses but so many TV shows and restra movies where the setting is a restaurant kitchen it's almost always across the board irritatingly unrealistic they'll just have these glorious piles of produce and everything's really clean and it's like oh my god it's hard to watch

[01:01:33] if you've ever worked in a restaurant kitchen because it's like no it is not like that at all and everybody's happy and relaxed so the thing that the bear did really well is whoever did the set design they clearly knew exactly what they were doing

[01:01:47] like the way the walk-in looks and the dirty floor and the containers and the fact that they all sit around a table and they are like eating their lunch out of quart containers and all the like little details about that that show did really, really well

[01:02:01] so yeah I actually have to watch the rest of it at some point but I do really like We should watch it too, Nip I do really like that show I mean it's that much more interesting if you've worked in restaurants I have Waitress I've hosted at Best

[01:02:16] been a long time I just hope we get to come back to your restaurant whatever it takes I believe in that This is where I get into a little bit of like faith but just the number of people who are like well that's your restaurant

[01:02:27] you're supposed to reopen there this space was waiting for you like it's that I mean it just feels like this is what's meant to happen and like I always say it's not I don't want it for me I want to bring it back for the people

[01:02:41] and by the people I mean for the former employees for whom that place was like home for all the people who loved it and were regulars or just love to go there and have special memories and who you know for all the people

[01:02:52] who would like to experience it and all the good things about it but also really importantly like for all the people like me and others who've been through this to be able to recover what was destroyed by this situation right so I may have like lost everything

[01:03:08] but to get back the thing that was destroyed and I'm even reluctant to say that he destroyed because you could argue that I destroyed it via him however you phrase it but there's this element of like inspiration that I feel like would be so meaningful

[01:03:23] to a lot of people yes so that's really meaningful this like be so inspirational for other people to go okay she could go through that hell and have been in the depths of the darkness and like not wanting to get up and not wanting to live

[01:03:36] and not wanting you know thinking like it's all over and to be able to come back and reopen I feel like is important inspirationally is so important and then there's like this sort of cherry on top of that which is the giant like fuck you fuck you Netflix

[01:03:51] and Mr. Fox and everybody but yeah mostly like Mr. Fox like fuck you you did not take me down like you thought you could destroy me and you kind of you did but like fuck you I got back up not forever and I'm back motherfucker

[01:04:05] here's a free grand juice wherever that fucker is beware everybody out I think he's on the west coast you know like doing his thing conning people and I hear from people so people have reached out to me who've had run ins with him he doesn't deserve green juice

[01:04:18] he deserves like a slice of Domino's pizza shoved up his hairy ass that's what he does sorry his hand be Sarah Sarah that's so bad to Sarah Sarah Edmondson a pizza enema yeah that would do him well I think yeah like a reverse like pizza

[01:04:38] waterboarding from the other end karma's a bitch Mr. Fox oh which reminds me huge shout out to Taylor Swift in that song karma like I play that song and sing aloud and dance around whenever I need to feel like you know what everything's gonna be alright

[01:04:57] everything's gonna be alright yeah Taylor who? Taylor Swift and that song karma is like that's like my theme song and I just totally I pull that one out it's like when I feel like somebody's been a dick head and they're like you think you can fucker

[01:05:12] and I'm like you know what it's gonna work out it's gonna work out and I play that song yes it's great so yeah big shout out to that song well I don't want to take more of your time I know you've got you got your book to write

[01:05:23] and I know I'm on a restaurant to reopen so go do that and please let us know how we can support you thank you so much yeah thank you so much we'll see you soon big big hugs so proud of you

[01:05:36] I can't wait to see you guys again in real life hugs like what you hear do you give us a rating review and subscribe on iTunes every little bit helps us get this cult awareness content out there smash that subscribe button you know you want to

[01:05:55] okay so what's Sarma up to now Sarah well hopefully by the time this drops an article will be out in the world I know she was a little bit cagey about what happened with the restaurant and hoping that the article illuminates some of those dynamics and we hope

[01:06:09] it all gets resolved soon because surprise, surprise we want to go back to the restaurant that's the only reason we want it to be resolved well also for Sarma's well-being and livelihood but selfishly we want to go back to the restaurant wouldn't it be great if that

[01:06:23] restaurant came back and it's I oh well I'm gonna manifest it right now write Amanda Montell magical thinking right here manifest thanks everybody check out her article follow Sarma on her Instagram for all the latest breaking news don't forget to follow us subscribe like blah blah blah blah

[01:06:43] it's not blah blah blah it's actually kind of a bore you know the drill baby bye so until next time a little bit culty is a Trace 120 production executive produced by Sarah Edmondson and Anthony Nippy Ames in collaboration with producer Will Rutherford at Citizens of Sound

[01:07:16] and our co-creator Jess Temple-Tardy our writing and research is by Holly Zadra and Matthias Rosenzweig and our theme song Cultivated is by the artist John Bryant in Nigel Aslan