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[00:00:00] This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, medical or mental health advice. The views and opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast and are not intended to malign any religion group, club organization, business individual, anyone or anything.
[00:00:30] You can get more bonus episodes plus add free flagship episodes and other fun stuff over on Patreon, including lip balm.
[00:00:42] It's not a cult, it's just a little bit culty. Find us at patreon.com slash a little bit culty.
[00:01:12] Hopefully we'll have found a rental by then. More importantly, what did you learn about football this week? I have no idea what did I learn about football.
[00:01:18] She's not fully American yet. I'm really not guys. We'll talk about that on another episode. This is a little break from our normal Patreon format. We had a great interview with one of our dear friends and supporters Kate Casey who's got a podcast called Reality Life with Kate Casey.
[00:01:38] We've actually been on her pod a couple times, but this episode we're going to share with you was really fun. First of all, a little bit about her. She is the foremost guide on what to watch in unscripted television.
[00:01:49] She loves to do deep dives. She's people obsessed and she's a great storyteller, right, sir?
[00:01:53] Yes. She asked our opinion about a bunch of cult docs, some of which we'd seen and some of which we hadn't.
[00:01:58] And we're going to go watch all of them and maybe just maybe this was Sarah's idea. I'll let you share.
[00:02:04] We can use that as a jumping off for some new Patreon live stream debriefs. And we're also going to do like test out some other formats.
[00:02:12] We're not crazy, but the Vimeo there's a lot of tech issues that people had. We will do like a zoom where we can all see each other stay tuned for that.
[00:02:19] Also, we can talk about other people's cults. They're not just our trauma, right?
[00:02:23] I'm definitely ready for that. Anyway, we hope that you enjoy this episode. Check out Kate Casey's pod. She's got a Patreon too.
[00:02:29] She's really awesome and she covers all unscripted stuff, but is also obsessed with cults as are we obviously?
[00:02:34] And it's really great to get someone else's perspective who has an impression of these documentaries and these cultic abuses and articulate them because we've been the ones doing that
[00:02:44] and have someone else do it is actually pretty cool because the consistencies are all there.
[00:02:49] So enjoy guys. We hope that you enjoyed as much as we did and until next time, bye.
[00:03:00] Sarah and Nippie are back because in this episode, we're going to talk about the best cult documentaries. You guys know I've watched almost every cult documentary that it's ever been made.
[00:03:10] And I've compiled a list of my favorites. Some of them they have not seen yet. They spend a lot of time completely deep diving.
[00:03:17] Colts for their fantastic podcast and I wrote them into this episode today. Welcome back. We love to be rope.
[00:03:24] This is our favorite thing.
[00:03:26] This list really has some of the greatest docu series and documentaries.
[00:03:31] I've had the privilege of interviewing so many people that have made these or who have been featured in them.
[00:03:36] So let's just get right to it. The first one out of the gate is called Wild Wild Country. It's on Netflix.
[00:03:43] It is a series about the controversial Indian guru, the Bhagwan Rajneesh and his one time personal assistant Ma Ananshila and their community of followers
[00:03:52] in the Rajneesh poem community located in Oregon. He was an Indian mystic and founder of the Rajneesh movement and during his lifetime he was viewed as a controversial new religious movement leader and a mystic guru.
[00:04:04] What I found interesting about this was that it was a part of this movement that first melded Eastern mysticism and Western capitalism.
[00:04:12] The docu series is bananas because the Rajneesh community in Oregon almost instantly wound up in a land use battle with neighbors, then bigger battles with the county, then even bigger battles with the state and federal governments.
[00:04:24] And the members were ultimately charged with a variety of crimes including the Rajneesh himself who was deported.
[00:04:30] And again, at the heart of the documentary is this woman Ma Ananshila. I do believe that the year that this came out she was probably a very popular Halloween costume.
[00:04:39] She was a secretary who became the de facto day to day leader of the commune, particularly after the Rajneesh stepped back from speaking.
[00:04:48] He went years without speaking and she was a controversial figure that was eventually convicted of multiple crimes and sentenced to 20 years in prison but was released in early 1988.
[00:04:58] So she is featured in the stock you series. It also is interviews with locals who are still pissed off about the Rajneesh and Sheila all but admits that she was intentionally provoking hostilities with state and local governments and all agree that the Rajneesh is built up an impressive stockpile of weapons.
[00:05:16] This was so well done. What did you guys think of it?
[00:05:20] Well, okay, I think if you and I will probably be on the same page here when it first came out is when we were in our healing process and it was crazy because it was helpful because a lot of similarity even even though the content was different.
[00:05:32] I remember this being crazy is that as Rajneesh's oh show was going through what they called diesel therapy when they get put on a bus and like dragged across the country to go to jail like it's actual thing that they do to convicts to like kind of break them down a little bit.
[00:05:46] That was happening in real time to Keith Reinery he was having his own diesel therapy moment. Do you remember that net?
[00:05:52] Yeah, explain better with diesel therapy is it's because he was just to give the audience a little thing. He was apprehended by his refueling I think in North Carolina and they intercepted him there and drove him back to Oregon to have his trial and purposely put him in prison to give him a taste of prison
[00:06:12] was going to inspire him to plead guilty and leave the country. So he got a taste of the US prison system on the way back. I didn't even know that less idea behind diesel therapy it's like you're getting ready to go into court and we're going to give you a taste of the life that you're going to get if you don't cooperate with the government.
[00:06:27] But it was the only one that we watched twice again to pet for one of our episodes with one of his inner circle victims and this is where I had two minds like if you'd ask me a few years ago, I would have said it was a great documentary and it did and they did have amazing access to
[00:06:41] footage and I thought like the documentary itself was well made. But when I talked to Aaron Robbins, who is one of the first whistleblowers to actually talk about his sexual exploits which was missed was totally missed. I mean they obviously they showed the sort of like sexual therapeutic naked dancing orgies, which were obviously wild to see but they missed how he had it just like you through an area and many of these many of these men cult leaders is he had a harem.
[00:07:10] And he was sterilizing the women in their 20s they wouldn't get pregnant and yes, yeah, you should listen to our episode of her it's heartbreaking heartbreaking. Yeah, it's pretty it's pretty yeah it's show was calling for the sterilization. Yeah, he was having a sterilized and doing all the all the things that all these narcissistic sex addicted power.
[00:07:28] 100 guys do and a lot of the abuse was extended a lot to the men in the organization said wasn't just Ocho doing it was a culture since then we found out that there's a whole group of like what's they call the kids the children.
[00:07:41] Of the parents that moved there like parents that went there with their young kids who were many of whom were being sexually abused and a lot of young women 11 12 13 year old young women having sex with the other men not just Ocho like the men of the compound we're having sex with these women.
[00:07:58] And girls so like the documentary skim that whether they knew it or didn't want to get into it or there was enough proof I don't know but I was mad after that.
[00:08:08] So that was that's been our journey with that particular document you know there's other aspects to that document as well that I find we're interesting too of how they're able to abuse the legal system was to protect them from their own crimes, which is and they did it you know pretty overtly.
[00:08:22] And and and she knows it's pretty overt to your point earlier so it was I thought that was pretty fast.
[00:08:28] Yeah and to watch her trajectory from like just to accolade to then being a power hungry maniac what does she reminds me a lot of Claire yes yeah working the system using her own power how she felt so celebrated by Ocho they're weird relationship so many common threads there yeah.
[00:08:49] Well for sure okay the second one i'm not sure you're from you were familiar with I know I've mentioned it to you before but it is wildly fascinating to me because.
[00:09:00] It was one of the first cases I heard of a female cult leader right this one is called the cult of the family it's on Amazon Prime the most notorious case in Australian history Melbourne based cult the family was led by this beautiful woman name and Hamilton burn a yoga teacher who claimed.
[00:09:18] To be Jesus Christ reincarnated red flag she headed exactly she headed this apocalyptic sec called the family which was prominent in Melbourne from the 60s through the 1990s so with her husband bill which was I believe her second husband she acquired numerous children some
[00:09:35] some through adoption scam some born to cult members and raise them as her own because in Australia at that time it was a huge huge no no to be a single parent so they would have members who would be in some of these burying rooms and convinced these single mothers you know it's really in your best interest to make sure that your child is born or raised into a family with both parents and by the way we can do that for you.
[00:10:00] So isolated from the outside world the children were dressed in matching outfits they had identical died blonde hair and were beaten star been injected with LSD they were taught that she was both their mother and the Messiah.
[00:10:13] And the children were eventually rescued during a police raid in 1987 but their trauma obviously had only just begun so what I like about this one is that they included both the survivors and the cult members.
[00:10:25] Retelling their stories alongside the Australian and international detectives who worked on that case and they worked for years and years and years because and in her husband really knew how to a bait authorities what is most jarring to me is this visual I have of and going into a courtroom she kept first she took all the personers money obviously to buy real estate which made her have so she had a huge fortune based on the real estate but she kept getting face lifts so when she goes to.
[00:10:55] Court her airline was so far back on her head it's almost at the top of her head it's terrifying but this is like really fascinating one that's why I thought you might like it too is because it's so.
[00:11:07] Strange for me to hear about a female call leader because I think i'm so used to hearing about male.
[00:11:13] Colleaders you know we just saw the trailer for it and we've obviously heard of this group because we get suggestions on the Dale for different calls to do a to an episode on we just haven't found someone to.
[00:11:24] To interview and also for a while I was confused that this was the same thing as the family and family international eight oh I know children of God.
[00:11:32] I didn't realize we separate things until I saw that the leaders are totally different in different countries but we definitely will do an episode I think that it's fascinating to see a woman leader it is very rare and i'm curious to know more it looks well made isn't look too salacious it looks sensitive and and fascinating another weird thing is that I reached out to the director of it.
[00:11:53] And it took me a couple weeks to finally get her to respond and then she declined or request to come on my show oh wonder why I know mysterious issue is just traumatized I know that.
[00:12:05] A lot of people who make these documentaries get pretty traumatized that makes sense yeah it's a lot it's a lot to be on the other end of other peoples trauma as well I'd be curious to see if her tactics were the same as.
[00:12:17] The other male guru tactics I found that she reminded me a lot of David crash hmm but it is weird because she began this cult.
[00:12:26] On the university campus and synced up with somebody who was an educator and I think because she lacked that educational pedigree she's just a yoga teacher and there was a history of mental illness in her family.
[00:12:40] So I think the educator legitimized her okay she leveraged his credibility hmm the third one's called heavens gate.
[00:12:46] Cult of cults I have referenced this group so often because there's this visual I have of the police rating this ranchal mirage California mansion and the visualization of all of these members who had since to see were deceased laying with blankets over them and black Nike sneakers.
[00:13:09] Is that Nike shoes and the didn't that Nike like pull that shoe after that event well they sure should have because this is a crazy story so it's a heavens gate the cult of cults is on HBO.
[00:13:19] It's a four part docu series exploring how leaders T and dough brainwash members of this extreme religious group known as heavens gate into believing that they could chemically and biologically transform into next level aliens.
[00:13:31] So ultimately 39 members of the groups established 41 committed an active mass ritual suicide in 1997 so only two are still alive.
[00:13:41] I think that's why we haven't done it because there's like two people we can do it so hard right yeah features first person accounts from those and in proxy to heavens gate this is an HBO max original that you're not going to get out of your head T and dough were platonic friends one of them was a closeted gay man.
[00:14:00] And he had so many of his own issues with his own sexuality he convinced so many of the members to castrate themselves right the women were pushed to have an and and drawgeness look to themselves.
[00:14:13] So they all completely changed their looks based on the leaders own issues with his own sexuality.
[00:14:20] My name is Holly hell which I know we're getting to later yeah absolutely in watching the trailer and inspired to watch it and I think we have it why didn't we couldn't find someone to interview and also there's just been so many like more recent current faults that we've been exploring and this is I mean 1997 is not that long ago but we should definitely talk about it.
[00:14:40] It looks good it looks well made and looks like they have access to incredible footage.
[00:14:44] And yeah and yellow which isn't it who we love oh I love her to another thing that I found interesting was that it was another group with apocalyptic fears and I find that leaders pray on people in a vulnerable place and I've noticed that there are some cold members that cling to the apocalypse as a way of having control over their lives or some answers which is always so upsetting to me to again reminds me a lot of the week go.
[00:15:14] Colt members and also great segue into keep sweet because there is yeah the world coming coming there to the F LDS so keep sweet pray in a bay is docu series on Netflix it surrounds the polygamist fundamentalist church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which is an offshoot of mainstream Mormonism and its current leader Warren S Jeff's it is directed by Rachel Dresson who has been a guest on my show as well as Alyssa wall who really was the woman that took down Warren Jeff's so in it you get to see.
[00:15:44] Survivors that visit short Creek Utah the headquarters of the F LDS church. The title of the series is derived from the motto keep sweet pray on a bay which is coined from the proceeding president rule on Jeff's and used to convey how women should behave in relation to their husbands, which is obviously a control tactic several former F LDS members are interviewed on both their experiences inside the church as well as providing testimony to Jeff's systematic coercion and exercises of power towards the members of the congregation.
[00:16:14] This one is an in depth look into the secret of polygamist sect of the fundamentalist church of Jesus Latter-day Saints, the F LDS and the rise of self-professed profit Warren Jeff's who by the way had 78 wives and 24 of whom were under age.
[00:16:28] There are countless women who were forced into marriage and pregnancy as the group believed that the more children led you to hire in heaven any controlled a multi million dollar church through a lifetime of conditioning and fear and much like the other group had a ton of real estate, which is the reason they were able to amass such a fortune which of course like Scientology, they were able to evade taxes.
[00:16:52] Yeah, well you actually introduced us to at least a wall whose interview with us was phenomenal is two hours she's a hero to me the fact that she was she was willing to go and get more in Jeff's and tell her story and take him down and that it's similar to us like we testify or you know we went to the authorities what we knew is just the tip of the iceberg to what there actually was.
[00:17:13] And I think when she went with her story it wasn't like obviously it was terrible and there was so much more.
[00:17:19] And I find the people that grew up in it that are able to get out I find their stories just really amazing you know we were in but we had you know access to the external world and we had a context to frame it and coming out of it and then you know having nowhere to go and no structure that feel safety and being able to go through that to me was really inspiring aspect to her story.
[00:17:41] She said that the reason she thought she was able to get away was because her parents were converts versus people that were born into it have a much harder time to get out and then there's this whole after life once you leave and getting acclimated to the regular world which I thought was really interesting.
[00:17:57] I do believe that the government of the United States of America owes her a medal of freedom for what she did to save all of the women and the young boys that are in that community.
[00:18:08] How do we get that going for her?
[00:18:09] I've said it. I hope to do it. I really believe that she is owed that I can't even imagine that all of the people that she has been able to save because of what she's what she did I couldn't agree more she's incredible.
[00:18:22] The next one is called Holy Hell I watch this the first week of the global pandemic.
[00:18:28] I made an entire puzzle while I watch this because I stopped it and would process it finished it and then watched it one more time I thought that this was such a strange case.
[00:18:39] And it took me a while to unpack this is a 2016 documentary that aired on Netflix at the time I believe you can watch it on Amazon Prime now.
[00:18:49] It's by Will Allen and it's about his experience as a member of the Buddha field cult for 22 years.
[00:18:55] The leader of the Buddha field is a man previously known as Michelle Andreas the teacher.
[00:19:01] Ragey I think, but he was born Jamie Gomez. He was once known to wear nothing but swim briefs and eyeliner.
[00:19:08] The Buddha field largely uses new age ideas.
[00:19:11] Gomez thinks of himself as God and encourages his followers to think of himself as God as well.
[00:19:15] The Buddha field uses the Sanskrit word shocked meaning power for Jaime Gomez is alleged power transferance to his followers using just his finger.
[00:19:24] Gomez also sites the Sarah Bhagavad Gita.
[00:19:28] He demanded as followers remain celibate despite himself allegedly having sexual intercourse with various male followers.
[00:19:35] Drugs and alcohol were also banned for use while in the group.
[00:19:39] The Buddha field followers change names while they're in the group.
[00:19:42] The director will Allen explain that a lot of the principles of the East versus West that we were doing surrendering to the guru dropping your ego,
[00:19:49] taking your shoes off before you walk into a room and leave the world behind.
[00:19:52] We think of it as us giving up our power.
[00:19:55] We didn't think of it as giving up our power.
[00:19:57] We thought of it as empowering three to five hour ballet practices two to three days a week.
[00:20:02] We're often part of the groups activities with members even missing their jobs for practice.
[00:20:08] The resulting performance was never shown to anyone outside of the Buddha field.
[00:20:12] Many allegations have been made against Jaime Gomez, most notably sexual abuse of his male followers and his victims have said that they had their confessions in their weekly hypnotherapy sessions used against them.
[00:20:23] Gomez also use the AIDS crisis to instill fear in his gay male followers to frighten them and disdain.
[00:20:29] So in this former members claim they were brainwashed by him and Allen and other former Buddha field members claim that they were not allowed to obtain information from outside sources, which is very common with Gomez,
[00:20:41] bristling at one member purchasing a TV.
[00:20:43] He shunned such ex followers and denied the allegations.
[00:20:47] Another interesting part is that he began to undergo increasing amounts of plastic surgery around this time as well as recommending his female followers undergo similar procedures.
[00:20:57] He also attempted to get followers to report on each others perceived digressions, which is just like Scientology.
[00:21:04] He kept one follower from seeing her father before he died and encouraged another to get an abortion claiming religious reasons.
[00:21:11] I thought this was so much done, Pak. What did you make of it?
[00:21:15] This was actually on our list when we when we left next year on Bonnie piece Mark's wife had left before us and she'd been like trying to self educate and had put together a list of things to watch.
[00:21:24] Holy hell was on there.
[00:21:25] Well, well, country was on their no, well, was it on yet?
[00:21:28] I don't know but going clear for sure and holy hell were on there.
[00:21:30] So we watched this again early days in our healing and I remember nippy and I being like holy shit because it was the content was different Keith and him are different,
[00:21:40] but there were so many similarities and one of the most hilarious.
[00:21:43] I mean, it's not hilarious for them, but for us just we had to laugh is that Jaime had had these people come and watch and practice the ballet and do these performances.
[00:21:51] We had that as well and especially with volleyball.
[00:21:53] It was like, you can just swap out volleyball with ballet.
[00:21:56] It's like what what what is it with these people's obsession with this random thing that everyone has to attend and we can see it clearly now is like it's a test of submission.
[00:22:04] Like what are you willing to give up for me?
[00:22:08] All right. What are you willing to do for me?
[00:22:09] So it was a really helpful documentary for us to watch.
[00:22:11] We met Will Allen through Mark Vicente early days and then when we had our podcast, we invited him on and he like he was like the Mark Vicente of
[00:22:19] Holy hell because he had all the video footage, right?
[00:22:22] And we really connected with him and his journey.
[00:22:24] We thought it was a really well made documentary series especially because or is it a movie?
[00:22:28] Is one movie movie?
[00:22:30] It's movie not serious.
[00:22:30] It's just movie.
[00:22:31] Yeah.
[00:22:31] I felt that really lent a lot of compassion to the X members.
[00:22:35] This was at a time when we weren't full like we were out but we weren't out out with sublures.
[00:22:40] We are now and it kind of that and actually going clear just to jump ahead for a second.
[00:22:43] Both of those things showed me that it was possible to say, hey, this happened to me and not be
[00:22:49] ashamed and like move on with your life and that would hopefully be a service to others.
[00:22:53] And that was that was definitely one of them.
[00:22:55] And I think Will is very brave.
[00:22:57] Both those two documentaries were the start of our education in terms of reconciling our delusion.
[00:23:02] There was a list of things.
[00:23:03] One was the transcript from a trial that Keith was in in Houston and I read the transcript of the trial and I rolled my eyes.
[00:23:10] And I was like, oh my god.
[00:23:12] This is what this guy does.
[00:23:13] And then I saw these two documentaries and the similarities of the optics of having a weird leader look like
[00:23:20] in the guy from Holy Hell just insert Keith.
[00:23:22] And I was able to get a hit of how we must have come off to people.
[00:23:26] And so it was kind of like embarrassment shame and then,
[00:23:31] man, this is what happened to us.
[00:23:32] Just gave a long long haired volleyball playing guy.
[00:23:36] He wasn't in a speedo.
[00:23:37] But otherwise similar.
[00:23:38] The same thing.
[00:23:39] Yeah.
[00:23:40] But just the same kind of, you know, whatever he was there are be sessions.
[00:23:44] It was all that stuff.
[00:23:46] It was just it looked a lot alike and it was able to help us figure out.
[00:23:50] Sarah, did you also see the connection even though with Jaime Gomez,
[00:23:54] he's sleeping with male congregants.
[00:23:56] But what what Keith was doing with the female congregants?
[00:23:59] Yeah.
[00:24:00] The same thing is like saying, hey, I'm here to help you.
[00:24:02] But well, we're in session.
[00:24:03] I'm also going to have sex with you.
[00:24:06] I mean, that didn't happen.
[00:24:07] They didn't happen to be.
[00:24:08] But that happened to our close friends.
[00:24:11] Yeah, it's not consensual.
[00:24:13] You're signing up for one thing and then you find yourself in that situation.
[00:24:16] When I was watching the vow to, especially the last few weeks,
[00:24:19] first I want to say you guys have really taught me to rethink how I think about
[00:24:25] cults.
[00:24:26] Now I have complete empathy and love and support for members of cults.
[00:24:31] Oh, thank you.
[00:24:31] And I think that that comes with the more that you learn and you have relationships
[00:24:37] with people that leave them.
[00:24:39] I think it's very easy to judge unless you know somebody who has left one and
[00:24:43] you are confronted with somebody who's really smart and kind and tethered to the
[00:24:49] other people in the world.
[00:24:51] It doesn't really make sense until you know somebody who leaves a cult.
[00:24:54] So when I think of someone like Lauren, for example, who what she felt was
[00:25:00] a relationship with Keith, they're asked to keep it so private.
[00:25:05] So you didn't, you didn't know what was going on.
[00:25:08] Correct?
[00:25:09] No, I didn't know.
[00:25:09] And so for Holy Hell, I think so many of these men probably had no idea that they
[00:25:15] were all with the same leader as well.
[00:25:18] Yeah.
[00:25:18] I mean, every day we find out more about what was happening behind the scenes in our
[00:25:22] group.
[00:25:22] But I think that's what they all do.
[00:25:24] They're asked to keep a secret.
[00:25:25] They're made to feel special.
[00:25:26] They think they're the only one.
[00:25:27] Sometimes some of the women in Keith's hair are new of the other ones.
[00:25:31] And then I'd have to like go get an EM and exploration of meaning with another
[00:25:35] of one of the women to like work through their issues and their reactivity
[00:25:38] because who would be happy with that?
[00:25:40] You know, who would be doing the EM, the exploration of meaning different
[00:25:43] people for different times depending on who knew what Nancy did a lot of them.
[00:25:47] Some of it just the higher ranks people in the inner circle who knew how to
[00:25:50] EM most likely someone who is doing what Nancy calls management.
[00:25:54] So then that person would be completely aware of the inappropriate
[00:26:00] relationship that he is having with somebody who's a member of the group.
[00:26:04] Yeah, but those people didn't think it was inappropriate because I thought it
[00:26:07] was an honor.
[00:26:07] Wow.
[00:26:08] With the premise of Keith is right.
[00:26:11] And so anything after that would be would seek to minimize the abuse and make
[00:26:16] the abuse to the other persons misinterpretation of Keith's motives and intent.
[00:26:21] So gaslighting but in a clinical stage or critical kind of front.
[00:26:26] So the person felt like they went and worked their own issue around being
[00:26:30] abused.
[00:26:31] Well, we will get back to the vow in a moment.
[00:26:33] OK, going clear Scientology and the Prison of Belief on HBO.
[00:26:37] This is fantastic.
[00:26:38] It's a 2015 documentary film directed by Alex Gipney, who's one of the best
[00:26:44] of the best is produced by HBO.
[00:26:46] And it's based on Lawrence Wright's book Going Clear Scientology, Hollywood
[00:26:50] and the Prison of Belief which I recommend highly.
[00:26:54] It received widespread praise from critics and was nominated for seven Emmy
[00:26:58] awards, winning three, including best documentary.
[00:27:01] It's also received a Peebody Award and won the award for best documentary
[00:27:05] screenplay from the writer's Guild of America.
[00:27:07] This one deconstructs the Church's claims by presenting condensed history
[00:27:12] of Scientology and its founder, El Ron Hubbard.
[00:27:15] It examines how celebrities interact with the church, highlighting the stories
[00:27:19] of a number of acts members and the abuse and exploitation that they described
[00:27:23] scene and experiencing.
[00:27:24] This film breaks into three distinct acts.
[00:27:27] In the first, former Scientologist describe how they joined Scientology.
[00:27:32] The second act recounts the history of Scientology and its founder, El Ron Hubbard.
[00:27:36] And in the final act, the film airs allegations of the abuse of church members
[00:27:40] and misconduct by its leadership, particularly David Miskevich, who is accused
[00:27:45] of intimidating beating, imprisoning and exploiting subordinates.
[00:27:49] The film depicts the role played by celebrity members, including John Travolta
[00:27:53] and Tom Cruise, through video clips, contrasting their statements with the experiences
[00:27:58] of former Scientologists.
[00:28:00] So to support its thesis, the film utilizes footage of ex Scientologists harassed
[00:28:05] and surveyed per his dictum that the Church's critics were all criminals
[00:28:10] whose crimes needed to be exposed and described the imprisonment of senior
[00:28:14] Scientology executives in a facility known as the whole, which sounds terrifying.
[00:28:18] One Scientologist was said to have been forced to clean a bathroom with this tongue.
[00:28:23] According to the film, actress Nicole Kidman was targeted for wiretapping by Scientology
[00:28:27] in an effort to break her marriage to Tom Cruise after she was labeled a potential
[00:28:32] trouble source by the Church.
[00:28:34] Whereas John Travolta has been forced to stay into the Church in fear
[00:28:37] that his secrets from his personal life will be exposed.
[00:28:41] Now you've mentioned that this is one of the documentaries that you used as research.
[00:28:46] What did it feel like once you watched this?
[00:28:48] What I remember the most was seeing that there were actual laws in our government
[00:28:54] protecting them to maintain an atmosphere of abuse.
[00:28:58] And I couldn't help take that content from their documentary and apply it to ours
[00:29:04] and think this guy Keith was complained about all the time.
[00:29:08] It made me question the structures in place that allow certain people to get away
[00:29:12] with these things.
[00:29:13] So that's what I took away from it the first time.
[00:29:15] I mean, in addition to many other things, but that was the first time I actually considered
[00:29:18] a way to make it.
[00:29:19] How is it that like we all know this?
[00:29:20] This is in a documentary.
[00:29:22] This has been, if you're peripheral to it and know anything about Scientology,
[00:29:26] you've heard they're abusing people and it's still going on.
[00:29:29] So that was one of the things I took away from it.
[00:29:31] I remember specifically Leah Remini's testimonial and knowing that she was, you know,
[00:29:37] being an, not that I'm anywhere near her in terms of my acting career,
[00:29:40] but being an actor at the time and watching her,
[00:29:43] he brave enough to tell her story and risk everything was a trailblazing for me.
[00:29:48] And her and Mike Rinder became personal heroes of us both, I would say.
[00:29:52] And also like there's, it's, and we know now we didn't know then that Keith had
[00:29:57] like studied Scientology and like red dionetics and taken some of the language
[00:30:02] and put it into next year.
[00:30:03] So there were so many similarities.
[00:30:05] I took notes watching this and there was like an entire like a whole sheet of all
[00:30:11] the things that were like slightly different words, but like do it getting
[00:30:15] NEM versus being audited.
[00:30:18] Suppressive was the exact same word.
[00:30:20] There was processes and rules and systems that were almost identical.
[00:30:24] So and ironically, the other thing that stood out to me is I remember when
[00:30:29] going clear came out originally, I was still in next year and I didn't watch it.
[00:30:33] But I'd heard about like Tom Cruise jumping on the couch and you know,
[00:30:37] we had heard that this was like, you know, outing this group.
[00:30:40] And I remember thinking because of the conversations I was having with the upper ranks,
[00:30:43] like so what if Tom Cruise is like if he's happy who are we to judge,
[00:30:47] which is sort of like how we protected ourselves in this little and so
[00:30:50] their group. So now it's like, oh, I didn't even, I didn't even watch it
[00:30:53] because I thought that would be unethical to this group that I didn't know
[00:30:57] anything about the time Scientology.
[00:30:59] So yeah, it was helpful.
[00:31:00] It is interesting how all of these leaders really discourage any information
[00:31:04] from outside sources.
[00:31:06] Yeah.
[00:31:06] The control is it's so unsettling.
[00:31:09] Yeah.
[00:31:10] This next one I've thought about many, many times, I think I've mentioned this to you.
[00:31:15] It's about Jim Jones and there's something about Jim Jones that reminds me of my dad.
[00:31:20] I think the way he looks and his charisma reminds me of my own dad.
[00:31:26] So this one's called Truth and Lies, Jones Town Paradise Lost on Hulu.
[00:31:31] And this one came out on the 40th anniversary of the largest murder,
[00:31:35] suicide in American history.
[00:31:36] There were 900 members of the people's temple that consumed a deadly cyanide
[00:31:41] laced drink on the orders of the leader Jim Jones.
[00:31:44] He was an American preacher, a political activist and a mass murderer.
[00:31:48] He led the people's temple, which was a new religious movement between 1955 and 1978
[00:31:54] in what he called revolutionary suicide.
[00:31:57] He and the members of his inner circle orchestrated a mass murder suicide in this
[00:32:01] remote jungle commune in Jones Town, Guyana on November 18th, 1978.
[00:32:06] He and the events which occurred at Jones Town have been a defining influence
[00:32:11] on society's perception of cults.
[00:32:13] You will often hear people say, well, someone's drinking the cool aid,
[00:32:17] which of course I have learned is a great offense to anyone that has survived the people's
[00:32:22] temple beginning in the late 1960s.
[00:32:25] Reports of abuse began to surface as Jim Jones became increasingly vocal
[00:32:30] in his rejection of traditional Christianity and began promoting this form of communism
[00:32:34] that he called apostolic socialism and making claims of his own divinity.
[00:32:39] So he became progressively more controlling of his followers and people's temple,
[00:32:43] which at its peak had over 3000 members.
[00:32:46] His followers engaged in a communal lifestyle in which many turned over all
[00:32:51] of their income and property to Jones and people's temple who directed all aspects of
[00:32:56] community life, which by the way does remind me a lot of Wadwad country.
[00:33:00] So following a period of negative media publicity and reports of abuse of people's temple,
[00:33:04] he ordered the construction of the Jones Town commune in Guyana in 1974
[00:33:09] and convinced or compelled many of his followers to live there with him.
[00:33:12] He claimed that he was constructing this socialist paradise free from the
[00:33:16] oppression of the US government.
[00:33:17] But by 1978, reports surface to human rights abuses and accusations that people were
[00:33:22] being held in Jones Town against their will.
[00:33:25] So they send down US representative Leo Ryan who led a delegation to the commune
[00:33:30] in November of that year to investigate these reports.
[00:33:34] So while boarding a return flight with some former temple members who wish to leave,
[00:33:38] Leo Ryan and four others were murdered by gunmen from Jones Town.
[00:33:42] And then Jones ordered a mass murder suicide that claimed the lives of the 909
[00:33:48] commune members, 304 of them were children and almost all of the members died by
[00:33:52] drinking the flavor aid laced with cyanide.
[00:33:57] This is a jarring vision that many of us have seen on television as the helicopters
[00:34:04] flew over the compound and you just see all of the bodies laying there.
[00:34:08] I thought that this was a haunting documentary.
[00:34:11] What did you think of this story about Jim Jones and the members of people's temple?
[00:34:16] Well, we haven't seen the doc.
[00:34:17] The series can't really tell from the trailer.
[00:34:19] I've listened to many interviews with people who were there,
[00:34:23] people who managed to like leave for whatever reason before the suicide happened.
[00:34:27] I know that just from the little research we've done that this is a reference
[00:34:31] that people make all the time you know drinking the cool aid who's actually
[00:34:33] flavorate and people don't really understand they weren't actually willingly.
[00:34:37] They were at gunpoint. It was either there.
[00:34:39] Yeah. So it I think that's really important with the story.
[00:34:42] I'm also aware of my own reclivity to communal living.
[00:34:45] I think that the way that these things were painted and how they're
[00:34:48] pitched like I've said publicly if it was the 80s and I was 19,
[00:34:52] I would have been an organ at the Rajneesh commune.
[00:34:54] Maybe not doing the naked dancing.
[00:34:56] I would like to think but either parts of it looked great.
[00:34:59] And I think that's really important.
[00:35:01] I understand is that all of these things look good on the outside
[00:35:03] and Jones was really known for he looks really crazy and
[00:35:08] predatory in that trailer, which I think that bothers me a little bit because
[00:35:12] it makes the viewer go oh, that's so obvious.
[00:35:14] He's so crazy.
[00:35:15] They don't come off like that when they're introducing yourself themselves to
[00:35:18] you and he was apparently master at connecting with and relating
[00:35:23] to people of different social economic backgrounds,
[00:35:26] particularly lower middle class.
[00:35:28] And I'm not an expert in this.
[00:35:29] This is what I'm learned a little bit of African American women in San
[00:35:33] Francisco and like built this church where people felt really included
[00:35:36] and really safe.
[00:35:37] And then it was like the next step was we're going to start this like utopia
[00:35:40] over here.
[00:35:40] And that's like the next step always sounds good until it's really bad.
[00:35:44] You know, and I think that's important.
[00:35:45] Yeah.
[00:35:46] And to underscore what you said to they had a lot of acclaimed support.
[00:35:50] People had gone in and checked him out and he had validation from some reputable
[00:35:54] sources, which is one way they leverage people.
[00:35:56] And the other is is to Sarah's point when you target, you know, lower income
[00:36:01] people, it's easy to cite the current structures in society as the problem
[00:36:05] and then roll them into, you know, a better utopia because they're susceptible
[00:36:08] because it's easy to blame the structures and culture.
[00:36:11] And sometimes he's right, but overall to dismiss them as a means to come
[00:36:17] do my structure, which will help you is the ultimate abuse of his power.
[00:36:21] So I think those are things that I'm super sensitive to.
[00:36:24] And I know that when I was reading about Jim Jones that he was a master.
[00:36:27] And he also had severe mental health issues and would not that too.
[00:36:31] Would not let any of the members of the people's temple have any sort
[00:36:36] of therapy or God willing, no medication that would help them in any way.
[00:36:40] And he was secretly having all of these medications privately.
[00:36:46] And so it just reminds me of someone of the hypocrisy of so many
[00:36:51] of the leaders, the way that they required their members to have a certain
[00:36:55] lifestyle that they didn't live themselves.
[00:36:58] Yep.
[00:36:59] Yeah.
[00:36:59] We were with us.
[00:37:00] We heard that Keith Riner was, we were told that he was vegetarian.
[00:37:04] Many of the members are vegetarian.
[00:37:05] We were told that he would eat meat and private.
[00:37:07] I know.
[00:37:07] I think about that a lot of, especially rewatching some of the episodes
[00:37:11] of the vow how every single woman he would ask them about their weight all the time.
[00:37:16] And yet he was a chubby guy.
[00:37:18] Yeah.
[00:37:19] Yeah.
[00:37:19] Chubby and chubby.
[00:37:20] He was a pork.
[00:37:21] Yeah.
[00:37:21] The way down on HBO is also a little bit crazy.
[00:37:25] It follows Gwen Shamlin Lara.
[00:37:26] She was founder of the Christian weight loss program, the way down workshop
[00:37:30] and later the founder of the remnant fellowship.
[00:37:32] So the way down follows how she combined religion and her diet plan
[00:37:36] to a mass of gigantic, gigantic following.
[00:37:38] So here's another case of using weight to control people.
[00:37:41] The way down shows her playing God to her congregation as she grows her power
[00:37:46] and wealth along the way.
[00:37:47] And over the course of the series by the episodes we hear about the horrors
[00:37:50] of the church from those that were impacted by it.
[00:37:52] The greed that helped grow the church and the countless cases of abuse over the years.
[00:37:56] I've interviewed Joe Lara's ex who is the mother
[00:38:01] of his child.
[00:38:02] Wow.
[00:38:03] Good for you.
[00:38:04] Yeah.
[00:38:04] How is that?
[00:38:05] And oh, it's just heartbreaking.
[00:38:07] It is a totally heartbreaking story.
[00:38:09] The way that she was able to separate her daughter from her
[00:38:14] and then was basically trying to work it so that the daughter would be in the
[00:38:19] care of people who were members of the church.
[00:38:22] So separate her from her birth mother.
[00:38:25] And then the custody arrangement, they wanted full custody of the child.
[00:38:30] But also if that were to have actually gone through the child basically
[00:38:34] would have been raised by members of the church.
[00:38:37] So just all of the little manipulation, but this one, what's so upsetting to me
[00:38:41] is the control with the weight.
[00:38:42] She prayed on women who already had their own insecurities and it's strange
[00:38:48] how somebody could go from like just having like a weight loss program,
[00:38:53] becoming this leader that people are reliant on for every aspect of their life.
[00:38:58] So it wasn't just what to eat, but it was also how to raise your children.
[00:39:02] And she had a very domineering perspective on parenting and so many people went
[00:39:07] along with it, which is also upsetting.
[00:39:09] It's hard to watch watching her like normally when I watch some of these
[00:39:13] people you can get a pulse on what's motivating them.
[00:39:16] Women's money, sex power and she's certainly not void of that.
[00:39:19] But there seems another aspect to like how she went about things that was
[00:39:23] difficult for me to pen.
[00:39:24] Like what is she doing?
[00:39:27] Like I don't like, yes, it was money followers and that stuff.
[00:39:30] But there was a there was a different tone to her that was just I couldn't quite
[00:39:34] place because it just felt off to me.
[00:39:37] And I couldn't quite put words to she also reminded me of Ann Hamilton bird
[00:39:40] because Ann Hamilton remarried Bill and Bill was very attractive.
[00:39:45] They could present this image of you know, like a like a holy couple
[00:39:51] and the same way that Gwen got rid of her first husband because he was overweight.
[00:39:56] And she meets Joe Lara who was like a loser actor.
[00:39:59] Like could never get any roles because he wasn't very good at his job.
[00:40:04] And then he wanted to be a singer.
[00:40:06] And so as his ex explained, this was the greatest role of his life.
[00:40:11] He was never playing himself.
[00:40:13] He was playing the role of her partner, which it makes it even more strange and
[00:40:18] used to do see part two.
[00:40:20] I did.
[00:40:20] I also interviewed the executive producer.
[00:40:23] So I interviewed them for the first three parts.
[00:40:26] And then when they finished the project a couple months later,
[00:40:29] then we spoke again because they of course,
[00:40:32] the couple was killed in helicopter crash.
[00:40:35] So the story got even more complicated afterward.
[00:40:38] I think that what's so upsetting actually about it too is I look at pictures
[00:40:44] and video of her daughter Elizabeth has taken over.
[00:40:47] I can say that.
[00:40:48] And she just looks so unwell to me.
[00:40:51] It's awful.
[00:40:51] Yeah.
[00:40:52] That's how I think people look at the people who are still loyal to
[00:40:56] Nexium too.
[00:40:56] They do not look well while you tell me her daughter looks so bright and happy
[00:41:02] as a young girl in high school.
[00:41:04] And then the contrast is yeah, truly compelling.
[00:41:08] So the last one is called the Vow.
[00:41:09] It's on HBO, which of course both of you have been involved in.
[00:41:14] So this is an HBO docu series largely told from the perspective of ex members
[00:41:18] of Nexium, a defunct corporation that Keith Reineri founded,
[00:41:22] which provided seminars and videos in the field of human potential development.
[00:41:26] Over its existence, former members and families of Nexium clients
[00:41:30] alarmed by his behavior and their practices spoke to journalists
[00:41:33] about the organization as a cult.
[00:41:35] And in 2017, a New York Times expose a revealed grave concerns
[00:41:39] about Keith Reineria Nexium, including the existence of a secret society called
[00:41:43] DOS, in which women were branded made to record false confessions
[00:41:47] and provide nude photographs for blackmail following the New York Times expose,
[00:41:51] which I remember reading as if it was yesterday.
[00:41:55] The United States attorney for the Eastern District of New York investigated
[00:41:58] the organization and in 2018 brought criminal charges against Reineri,
[00:42:02] co-founder Nancy Salisman and her daughter Lauren, actress Alison Mac,
[00:42:06] Seagram Ares, Claire Brompton, and bookkeeper Kathy Russell.
[00:42:11] Members of DOS were conditioned to become slaves with a master who controls
[00:42:14] nearly everything in their lives, including what they can and cannot eat.
[00:42:18] The slaves must even go as far to literally brand themselves as if they were cattle.
[00:42:23] Unraveling the psychology behind Nexium's leader currently serving a lifetime
[00:42:27] sentence in prison reveals is disturbing pattern of psychological manipulation
[00:42:31] pretending to be motivational self-help.
[00:42:34] The ex members of Nexium attempt to understand how they could have fallen prey
[00:42:37] to some to some pretty obviously disturbing behavior
[00:42:41] and then use their newfound understanding to help save current members
[00:42:44] as the both of you have and also on your podcast.
[00:42:48] This I always say is an excellent docu series.
[00:42:52] What hasn't meant to you to be part of this project?
[00:42:56] Long story short, as we were approached by some people to tell our story.
[00:43:01] It didn't feel right.
[00:43:02] And then find ourselves talking to the director's Karim,
[00:43:05] Armair and Jahan Nuzin who in Jahan had taken a 16 day training in 2010.
[00:43:11] So she understood it.
[00:43:13] And there were some angels that showed up in our lives, you know, to help us and whatever.
[00:43:18] And I think our decision to go with this, put our story in their hands and trust them
[00:43:24] ended up being a really good decision because they gave dignity to the victims of it
[00:43:29] as opposed to the obvious documentary of Kees bad.
[00:43:32] Let's get the experts on, say how bad he is and these people aren't stupid
[00:43:35] and not whatever.
[00:43:36] And it didn't.
[00:43:37] It wouldn't have lended us a voice and we wouldn't have been able to turn our story
[00:43:40] into content and wisdom for other people.
[00:43:42] So we got really, really lucky in that because we were offered like series here
[00:43:46] seeing and it just didn't feel like we felt like we're being conned again.
[00:43:49] Nothing for it.
[00:43:51] In a lot of ways, we were forced to go back into our own gut and our own instincts
[00:43:55] that we had subjugated to another organization or people for so long
[00:43:59] and make a lot of really good decisions in a short amount of time,
[00:44:02] but not necessarily recognizing them as good decisions at the time.
[00:44:05] We just went with what we felt was right.
[00:44:07] And that opened up lanes.
[00:44:09] And I've always said to Sarah, as like if we just stick to telling our story
[00:44:12] as honestly as we can and turn it into wisdom, I think we're going to be okay.
[00:44:16] And I kind of just as a guy who's not very spiritual and throw things out to the
[00:44:20] universe, I just feel like that's the right thing to do here.
[00:44:22] As long as we're coming from a place of fixing what we felt like we affected,
[00:44:26] I think the universe takes care of that and it's proven to and it's opened up
[00:44:29] a lane where we can continue to do what we want to do in this lane for as long as
[00:44:33] it'll have us.
[00:44:34] And in the second part of this series, we really hear from so many people
[00:44:38] that I thought we would never hear from that their stories would just disappear.
[00:44:43] And it's been very eye opening to hear it.
[00:44:46] I can't imagine what it's been like for you watching Nancy talk is there
[00:44:51] an element of understanding that comes with that to hear what her timeline is
[00:44:56] or are you still sort of?
[00:44:57] We don't know yet.
[00:44:58] Yeah.
[00:44:59] I'll see what I think I can answer that at the end of episode six because I think
[00:45:02] there's I'm assuming there's an arc.
[00:45:04] It's like we had a dark.
[00:45:05] We tapped dance for that a little bit.
[00:45:07] I mean, I know last time we spoke, I wasn't having any of it.
[00:45:10] And I'm still in that camp because I still feel a lot of it's performative
[00:45:13] and her attempt to control the narrative.
[00:45:15] So I don't know.
[00:45:17] I'm 50 50, but I'm not optimistic about what she says she knew and what she
[00:45:21] didn't.
[00:45:21] What I will say is a lot of people over show to us and said like how do you
[00:45:24] feel about all these people having a platform?
[00:45:26] And I don't feel like it gives anyone a platform in terms of changing the
[00:45:30] narrative.
[00:45:30] It just shows how indoctrination works and how pride can get in the way of being
[00:45:36] like, oh crap, I was wrong here.
[00:45:38] Just like Nippy and I had to do it.
[00:45:39] We all had to admit that overall more so in episode one for us.
[00:45:44] Know that came out in 2020 and COVID at a time when everyone's like, you know,
[00:45:48] at home and it was another rush of attention,
[00:45:53] just like the New York Times ad or when I book came out, but it was very positive
[00:45:57] almost across the board because I think this is where I
[00:46:00] want to thank Jahan and person.
[00:46:02] I will do that next week and it'll be there, which is so cool because I really
[00:46:05] felt like they did us a solid in terms of they showed the world what we thought
[00:46:10] we were getting into.
[00:46:11] They showed the world what the buy-in was, what the beautiful part of the community
[00:46:16] was because there were beautiful things.
[00:46:17] There were aspects of that that were like some of the best experiences in times
[00:46:21] of my life before before we knew the bad stuff.
[00:46:23] And there has to be good things in this these groups otherwise people don't
[00:46:26] join and looking back at the eight docs that we just talked about.
[00:46:30] Some of the docuseries don't do that.
[00:46:32] That it's more about like, and then they got frustrated.
[00:46:36] And you know, and this guy is crazy.
[00:46:38] And it's just it's so salacious and so dark and it doesn't give dignity.
[00:46:43] Like Nipi said to the victims.
[00:46:45] And for me, it was very vindicating, especially like I have friends my whole
[00:46:48] life when I was in next year saying like, oh, what's that thing?
[00:46:51] You do like it's kind of weird or like is that a cult or whatever.
[00:46:54] And then they would come to me and say, I understand what you were doing now.
[00:46:57] In fact, if you showed me that, I probably would have joined.
[00:47:00] Like, and for so many people to say, I would have joined that not everybody.
[00:47:03] Like not everyone's into that kind of thing.
[00:47:05] But a lot of people were and that that felt good.
[00:47:08] So people couldn't like have like more empathy.
[00:47:10] And also, I think that's not just for us, but like, like you said, Kate,
[00:47:14] like you see cult victims in a totally different light now.
[00:47:17] That's an incredible thing.
[00:47:18] That's an incredible story to be a part of.
[00:47:20] The one thing I wanted to ask you guys is that is there a space in the world,
[00:47:25] a possibility that some of the members who testified who at one point
[00:47:31] you probably had a lot of animosity toward, for example, Lauren, hearing them
[00:47:35] tell their story and having enough time pass and some personal healing.
[00:47:40] Do you think that there's some place in the future where you could actually
[00:47:44] hug each other and have a moment of healing together?
[00:47:48] Because it always astounds me how close you all were in that one moment in time.
[00:47:54] And if the, you know, John, John, the other experts say that there's a possibility
[00:47:59] that you could be close again or is it too dangerous because you could go back into that hole.
[00:48:04] As long as they're awake and they've come to terms with who Keith really is,
[00:48:08] I'm, I would always welcome anyone back into my life.
[00:48:11] I'm not necessarily his best friends, but like I would love to hug it out with Lauren
[00:48:15] and have a conversation.
[00:48:16] Same here.
[00:48:17] I don't have animosity after seeing what she went through.
[00:48:19] It was just a more extreme version of what we went through and I never actually met Lauren
[00:48:24] Salzman when she wasn't under the grips of someone abusing her, right?
[00:48:27] A relationship never knew that.
[00:48:29] I met her after it started.
[00:48:30] And I extend that to this people who are still loyal.
[00:48:32] Like I even though they're, you know, attacking my character and, and like out there
[00:48:38] saying that we're lying or whatever, like I know that mindset and I know that
[00:48:42] they were also abused.
[00:48:44] So hopefully they'll come to terms with that and I would not only welcome them back,
[00:48:48] I'd help them get back on their feet because their lives are very small and limited
[00:48:52] right now being a key three-narrary supporter.
[00:48:54] I, I don't know if she's listening, but I just want Lauren Salzman to know that,
[00:48:59] that episode about her story touched me deeply.
[00:49:02] And like I said in the last time, the way that her fertility,
[00:49:06] her opportunity to have a child was taken from her is unforgivable.
[00:49:10] And I hope that in some way she's able to become a mother and whatever way
[00:49:16] that may be because she deserves that.
[00:49:18] I think she would have made an excellent mom.
[00:49:19] She may still be able to, may still,
[00:49:22] she was an excellent godmother to my kids.
[00:49:24] Yeah.
[00:49:25] Yeah.
[00:49:26] I hope that I really hope that you guys all get a chance to be with each other again
[00:49:31] because I hope so too.
[00:49:32] Yeah.
[00:49:33] I think that would be great.
[00:49:34] Well, I hope everybody enjoyed this list.
[00:49:36] I will put this list together again.
[00:49:38] I'm just going to run through them one more time.
[00:49:39] But of course you can go to my social media and get this list as a cheat sheet.
[00:49:44] The first is wild wild country on Netflix.
[00:49:46] Then the cult of the family on Amazon Prime,
[00:49:49] heaven's gate, the cult of cult on HBO.
[00:49:52] Keep sweet, pray and obey on Netflix.
[00:49:54] Holy hell, Amazon Prime going clear,
[00:49:57] Scientology and Prison of Belief on HBO,
[00:50:00] truth and lies,
[00:50:01] Jones down paradise lost on Hulu,
[00:50:03] the way down on HBO and the vow on HBO.
[00:50:07] I want to thank my fantastic guest Sarah and Nippy,
[00:50:10] who I will see next week or I will see Sarah.
[00:50:12] And I want you to check out their fantastic podcast.
[00:50:15] Where can people listen to it?
[00:50:17] Anywhere you get podcasts, a little bit culty and we're on Instagram
[00:50:20] and we are pumping out some extra bonuses on Patreon
[00:50:25] and just live in the podcast life, live in the dream.
[00:50:28] And where can people find you on social media?
[00:50:30] A little bit culty on Instagram as our main and Sarah,
[00:50:32] Advenson personally and Anthony Ames 11 is nippy 11.
[00:50:36] Yeah, it's not nippy because that's, you know, that'd be weird.
[00:50:40] You know they say 11 is the most holy number.
[00:50:42] I believe it's my initials.
[00:50:44] That's why I worry.
[00:50:45] Ah, I was married on the 11th.
[00:50:47] Yeah.
[00:50:48] I'm such a nerd.
[00:50:49] I looked up the numerology to make sure that it worked for me.
[00:50:52] So I salute that.
[00:50:54] Thank you guys as always.
[00:50:56] Remember to check out, check out both of our podcasts.
[00:51:00] Anna's always thank you for your time.
[00:51:01] Pleasure.
[00:51:02] Take care.
[00:51:02] Bye.
[00:51:03] Thank you.
[00:51:04] We are a little bit culty.
[00:51:10] Little bit culty.
[00:51:13] Little bit culty.
[00:51:16] Little bit culty.