Sex Cult Nun: Faith Jones on Breaking Way from the Children of God. (Part 2)

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[00:01:04] Hey everybody, Sarah Edmondson here. And I'm Anthony Ames, aka Nippy, Sarah's husband and you're listening to A Little Bit Culty, aka ALBC, a podcast about what happens when devotion goes to the dark side.

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[00:02:36] Here's part two of our chat with Faith Jones who grew up in the Children of God, a religious cult founded by her grandfather in 1968. She's the author of Sex Cult None, her disturbing and furiating heart-breaking and also really fucking inspiring memoir of growing up in a cult,

[00:03:03] leaving it and her journey to taking back her life after severe childhood trauma. So please listen with discretion dear culty listeners because this gets into some gritty territory.

[00:03:12] And if you haven't listened to part one yet, make sure you back up and get that good content in your ears before you keep listening to this episode. Okay? Okay.

[00:03:21] We have a very similar mission and we've gotten shit from it from some of our audience saying like why do you keep saying what was good about the group? It's almost like you're defending it. I'm like absolutely not.

[00:03:44] I want people to know what looks good on the outside. What's the honey on the outside of the rotten apple so that when they, like you said, go to some church group and they're feeling really love, they go oh actually wait I'm being love bombed right?

[00:03:56] And they can see the specific things that may look good but actually are our attempts to you know shroud the negative stuff on the core on the inside. The distinction is important because nobody as we've said nobody joins a cult, they join a good thing. Yeah.

[00:04:12] So what's the good thing? And I actually do think your book really does that justice in terms of painting the picture of the good thing and as somebody who has always loved community living or commune living like I lived on a kippurts. You know, I like sharing space.

[00:04:28] I like sharing the work. I like being with people. I can totally see the draw and I think that's a real service.

[00:04:35] I think in addition to showing people what's good on the outside, we want them to see what the red flags are along the way that we overlook either because of the doctrine, either because we are gaslighting ourselves or being gaslit.

[00:04:46] I mean, I felt the pain of that journey when I read your book but is there anything in particular that you wanted to share? Yes, I think there's a lot of red flags and I'll walk through the framework of what some of these are.

[00:04:58] But to start with, if somebody is putting themselves between you and God, that's already a huge red flag.

[00:05:05] If they are saying I'm God's voice to you and you need to listen to me versus letting you say, look here, this is some great educational content and you need to listen to God and find out what is right for you.

[00:05:17] It's like somebody putting you on a super restrictive diet versus saying, here, I'm going to teach you the principles of healthy eating and you need to listen to your body and see what's right for you. So that's a huge red flag and you're going to see that everywhere.

[00:05:31] I would say the next one is anytime someone, so our very first core principle is I own my body.

[00:05:39] That means I have the full right to decide what I do with it, who touches it, who I have sex with, what I give my time, my effort, my money to. I have that absolute say what goes into my body and that is my right.

[00:05:57] And when we violate that right, if we say you don't have that right, then we're saying that you don't own yourself. If you don't own yourself, then there is no moral wrong in things like slavery, rape, murder.

[00:06:08] There's not a moral wrong there because you don't own yourself anyway. The state owns you, the group owns you, your parents own you, whatever that is.

[00:06:15] So really getting clear on that principle so you see if someone is trying to take away that power of self-ownership or in the family what they did very specifically is they taught you don't own yourself.

[00:06:27] Therefore, you have to give your body over to whatever the leadership is telling you to do with it. Because the leadership is getting direct orders from the prophet who's got a direct like yeah.

[00:06:39] And if you feel uncomfortable with what we're telling you to do with your body, that's your problem. There you get gaslit. Yeah, there was so much gaslighting in your book of any time you express concern or question. The first thing is are you questioning the prophet?

[00:06:52] Are you questioning God? Are you being unloving? You're basically breaking the law and there's no room for questioning. And that's another huge reflect. Any time these thought terminating sentences where they say, okay, you have to stop thinking like that.

[00:07:08] You know, in the sense where they don't let you follow through a logical process to figure something out. Right? And they don't walk go through that process with you. That's another huge red flag. Then the next one is are they taking what are they doing about your creations?

[00:07:22] Right? So if I own my body, I own everything I create. Are they saying, well, you don't really own that stuff you're creating. We own it. It belongs to the group. That's what happened in the family. Right? Everyone wrote songs and created content and all this stuff.

[00:07:36] It all belonged to the group. And actually earned a lot of money that was taken. Yeah. And when you went out and raised money, you handed it to the home. You didn't own anything for yourself really. Right?

[00:07:48] So if that's also that kind of philosophy, another big red flag. And the one that really comes up the most is when we're in the realm of the deal is what I call it. Because I have an ABCDE, right?

[00:08:01] Each layer has alphabetical so that we can remember the ABCs of ethics. And that is in the realm of the contract, the deal, which is our entire realm of relationships. Right?

[00:08:13] If you study transactional psychology, it's all about how we do things and we get something for that in return. It's not necessarily a monetary right? I cook a nice meal and someone thanks me for it. That's the exchange. Right?

[00:08:26] So when we're living in this realm of exchange, which we are as soon as we come in contact with another human, then we have to remember what those principles are. Right? And that is that each person needs to have a mutual understanding.

[00:08:38] They need to know what's going on. You shouldn't be gaslighting them. They need to know the reality. Or lying, right? Right? Exactly. Lying. And you know there needs to be an actual value exchange here.

[00:08:49] And what happens instead is they violate the other principle which is called undue pressure. So anytime someone is using negative manipulation to get you to do something you would not otherwise do, that is called undue pressure. Right? If they're saying, well, God's going to be unhappy with you.

[00:09:08] God's going to punish you if you don't do this. You're going to get sick. You know, we're going to ostracize you. You're going to end up getting publicly humiliated and torn down in front of everybody or can go so far as to physical punishment.

[00:09:22] We're going to lock you in your room and, you know, feed you, let you fast and study, you know, God's word. I mean, all of this stuff happened. Anytime you're applying that pressure to get someone to do something to turn over their money, right? Guilt.

[00:09:36] I mean who uses guilt and who has their family use guilt on them to get them to do stuff. Right? So, when you're doing something, somebody is saying you don't fully own yourself.

[00:09:45] You don't fully get to make that choice of what you're going to do with your time or your money. I get to put pressure on you to do what I want you to do by making you feel bad about it. Right? That's undue pressure. That's manipulation.

[00:09:57] So once you get really clear on these principles, it becomes very hard for somebody to do that to you successfully because you recognize, oh my God, I'm not the one that's right here. They're trying to make me feel bad and guilt me. That's not that principle.

[00:10:10] Not me, right? So it takes you out of that realm. Mm-hmm.

[00:10:14] I was going to say, I thought your book did a really good job of sharing with the reader your own thought process as you figure it out what had happened to you and how you eventually saw it for what it was abuse and rape.

[00:10:25] By the way, we've already recorded an intro where we trigger warning and all that stuff and let the audience know that we're getting into some very vulnerable and intimate and dark places. And I appreciate how you explained that you hadn't seen it that way until you understood it.

[00:10:42] Sometimes there was a couple occasions where you very clearly said no, right?

[00:10:45] And other times when you were younger, where you just lay there because you didn't know what else to do and you froze and you just disassociated and all those different things that we do in those moments. But you didn't realize how you were coerced and how that worked.

[00:10:58] Yeah. And sometimes when I even said no initially or, you know, express my discomfort and then was told, you know, basically punished for it until I got on board with it and then felt like I had to go do it.

[00:11:12] But the whole time I still felt very upset and traumatized. So even though I sort of willingly quote unquote walked in the room to engage in that sex, I wasn't willingly doing it at all. No, you didn't want to. Fully pressured into it, coerced into it. Yeah.

[00:11:27] And that's rape. And I didn't realize it that when until I left the group and until I was really having a conversation with my boyfriend at the time who was a lawyer and I expressed that to him and he was like, well, that's rape.

[00:11:38] You know, it just totally changed my viewpoint on that. What was that moment like it was shocking and I think it took me a while to process that because I was used to just kind of, it is what it is kind of thing, you know, but really recognizing

[00:11:54] that was actually a huge violation. It made me see things in it through a different lens, I guess I could say.

[00:11:59] And at that time when I had that realization, I still hadn't created the framework which I think really simplifies it for people, you know, so it helped me to understand like that incident.

[00:12:09] But it didn't really help me to understand all of the other violations that were going on until later when I could really encapsulate that in the principles and express it.

[00:12:19] It's interesting that you chose to go into law and specifically what you're doing now with financial ninjas at the end of it. Sorry. That's one of the things, right? Speaking and

[00:12:29] And you talk about your body is what you own and then the product of your body, right, which in a lot of cases, it's some sort of asset or some sort of value and it's monetary.

[00:12:39] And that's one of the things that I see being abused right now with a lot of the tactics that you mentioned right now. Our taxation system is flawed in many ways and it violates a lot of the principles that you talk about.

[00:12:51] But the origin of it is body and it's leveraged through our assets. In a lot of ways, it's a form of slavery and coercion. Do you see that in that system? And do you see it the same way?

[00:13:01] Do you see the violations, the principles in the same lens? Absolutely. I think what I love about these principles is when you see them clearly, you'll see the violations everywhere. For sure. And they're everywhere in our society, right? And I've had discussions with people about this.

[00:13:15] I say there is actually a way to do taxation that would not violate these principles. There is a way to do that. Absolutely, absolutely agree with that. But the system we have now is not that, right? Right.

[00:13:28] It has all of these assumptions that you've agreed to it, which you never did. Correct. Right. Basically the way the system works now is the government owns everything you make and we're going to tell you how much you get to keep.

[00:13:40] And if you don't submit to that, then we are going to send people with weapons to forcibly remove you from your home, put you in jail where you'll be raped and beat up and all kinds of horrible abusive things done to you.

[00:13:55] So that's the actual foundational principles on our system. And us challenging it oftentimes we're viewed as the controversial ones. Just by saying something like that, it's controversial for you to question that system, which allows it to stay in place.

[00:14:10] Well, they have people so cowed, so afraid to question the system, right? And what they also do, and this is something we did in the cult demonizing, right?

[00:14:22] Demonizing the outsider, demonizing somebody that's not part of your group or your political organization or your religious group or whatever it is, right? We had a term for people, systemites. Those are people outside the group. We call people who left the group backsliders, right?

[00:14:37] They're enemies of God, the people who would send the police after us because of the child abuse, you know, just naming, right? And they call these big so what does they do here?

[00:14:48] They call them the crazies or they the extremists or the this or that they give names to demonize somebody who's saying, wait, I'm looking at this and this is doesn't seem to be accurate, right? This doesn't seem to be following the moral standard that I understand and know.

[00:15:03] And that's one way they do it, and that's one way they keep people afraid to speak up or afraid to even think different. They're afraid to even entertain these other ideas or logical processes. Yeah, we've seen this. It's common. It's common in all of them.

[00:15:19] Yeah, we haven't had your framework up until now. We've had just the framework of the things we've learned in our post cult education and we do see it everywhere. I'm going to see if I can encapsulate part of it and tell me if this is right.

[00:15:30] There wasn't a specific, you know, wake up moment and then you left the cult. It was a gradual, the depression and wanting education and not being happy with where you were that got you out physically. Is that accurate?

[00:15:41] Yes, yes, because because I've grown up in this my whole life, my whole worldview was built around it and I didn't know anything else, you know? Really, I mean, you know, that I'd seen some movies or, you know, read a few books and stuff like that.

[00:15:54] But I didn't know it was wrong. I just thought I can't keep living like this.

[00:15:59] I can't live with this just incredible restriction and every move is watched and I have no freedom and just the daily drudgery of doing the same thing, nothing to achieve, nothing to strive for.

[00:16:11] Like I'd had during those kind of brief periods where I'd gone to school and I had that experience of progress and striving and achievement, you know? I didn't have that within the group at all.

[00:16:23] So that was kind of more what pushed me out. I mean, I just had such I wanted to read, I wanted to learn. I had this insatiable curiosity and in the group we just kept reading the same stuff.

[00:16:33] I mean, you know, same stuff, different printing of it over and over and I just my brain rebelled, I think. So it wasn't really until and when I left, I just I didn't look back. I didn't think about it.

[00:16:48] I purposely just kind of focus all my attention on succeeding and just trying to make a life for myself. You know, I had to learn everything. So it really took a few years before I did kind of assess or I did look back.

[00:17:04] And it was actually that same boyfriend of mine who really kind of pushed me to assess and to look back and to say like, were these things right or wrong? By that point, my worldview had changed enough. I had built another foundation.

[00:17:18] It's like your brain, you have to build a different framework to hold all the information in when you're entering a totally new world.

[00:17:25] So I had built that framework now and I could stand on that other platform and I could look back at the platform I was on before and I could see it now.

[00:17:33] Maybe not with perfect clarity, but I could see it. I could see it say, well those things actually did seem maybe those things were wrong and assess it with a different way.

[00:17:42] And I think a lot of people, I mean there are some people who leave and they're just like everything is wrong, everything's bad and you know, but there's a lot of people who leave and they're conflicted.

[00:17:52] They don't know why they felt so bad, why things were so hard for them. It maybe blamed themselves more or they think, well some was bad and some was good and I can't quite tease out what was what, right?

[00:18:04] And that's really what I think the framework is very helpful for people. And yeah, that's what happened when I left. It took quite some time and it really, I went on a journey of self-development too.

[00:18:17] You know, as I began to learn more and more of these things, other stuff became clearer and clearer. This is the golden age of cult recovery. The more we speak up and share our stories, the more we realize we are not alone.

[00:18:32] Your voice and your story can empower others. This is Sarah and I'm proud to be a founding collaborator of the hashtag I Got Out movement. Learn more at IGotOut.org. That's my personal and everyone's dream, isn't it? Well, I definitely have some non-negotiables.

[00:19:05] Like I'm in Vancouver right now and I'm spending literally as much time as I can outside of nature. Hashtag cold pools, hashtag crushing it. Nature is a non-negotiable. Not enough time in the fresh air and the trees around me and I start to feel not great,

[00:19:18] not myself, not grounded. Therapy Day is a bit like my nature walks. I try to not miss it and I know I'm just going to feel so much better all around if I make it a priority.

[00:19:26] I get so much out of it. It helps me put my worries and anxieties in their rightful place and helps me clear my mind so I can focus on what I really need and sometimes what I don't need.

[00:19:35] Like, I don't need to be overbooking myself just because I hate to say no to people. You know what I mean? Thanks, Therapy! Thanks for helping me see that. And if you're thinking of starting therapy, give Better Help a try.

[00:19:44] It's entirely online designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire and get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists any time for no additional charge.

[00:19:54] Look, even when we know what makes us happy, it's hard to make time for it. But when you feel like you have no time for yourself, non-negotiables like therapy are more important than ever. Never skip Therapy Day with Better Help.

[00:20:05] Visit betterhelp.com slash culti today to get 10% off your first month. That's Better Help H-E-L-P dot com slash culti. All proceeds go toward local food banks and families. Now, through January 31st, you can purchase an icon in-store or online

[00:20:32] or watch out for the blue feeding the hungry shelf tags where a portion of your purchase will be donated to local pantries. Together, we can combat hunger in our local communities at Macy's. The thing that I noticed is you were inspired to go out into the world

[00:20:50] as opposed to leave what you were doing. You had a catalyst, right? Is that a fair statement? Yes. I wanted to get an education. But what I'm saying, most people that we've interviewed or something having abrupt, oh my God, I was in a cult, I want to leave.

[00:21:05] That came later. Yeah, now this is what I'm saying. And to her point, one of the things that we see with some people who have a hard time leaving is they have nothing to go back to. But instead, she was inspired to go do something, built something.

[00:21:16] And as an effect of building something had a stable foundation to view the trauma. Because most people, it's an abrupt thing. And it's a very hard thing to reconcile and they have nothing to cling to. That gradual transition, I think, set you up for more success.

[00:21:31] It's interesting to see her quest for more knowledge is one of the things that she went and built. And then it was able to use that foundation to look back, which is just different. It's been a different journey for most of the people that we've interviewed

[00:21:43] is normally it's an abrupt thing. Right. It sounds like the most abrupt thing was when you found out about Davidito. Yeah, that was a big shock for me. So when he killed himself and he actually killed a woman who had been his

[00:21:55] nanny growing up, and it was all over the news and, you know, the newspapers and stuff. And then I went back and I have read a letter that he had written. So when I left, I didn't go on X member sites or in X member groups or anything

[00:22:06] like that. I just, I didn't want a lot of negativity and stuff around me because I needed all of my energy just to survive and make it. Right. But when I went back and I read that, that was posted on one

[00:22:17] of the X member sites, his kind of open letter. It was weird to read all of these things that I had grown up knowing my whole life because like his entire life was published in the mo letters and in the, you know,

[00:22:27] true comics, et cetera. But with his own, it was a totally different lens to view all of those things with, you know, when you hear the truth, it has a certain sound. Sure does. You can hear that ring of truth, you know, and it's not, you're not being

[00:22:40] gaslit. And that's what I heard when I read that. And I was like, whoa, okay. That was a massive shift in my consciousness, I think, for how I had seen all of these things. I think one of the things that really helped me though is

[00:22:52] that when I left and even later in life after I discarded all of, you know, the beliefs and everything like that, I always believed in God. I always had a, I felt like I had a connection to God to the source of,

[00:23:04] you know, love, that energy, creative force, energy, and, you know, Jehovah, Allah, whatever you want to call it. Whatever you want to call it. I've always had that connection to God and I've always felt like I could

[00:23:16] pray and ask God for help and that God heard me, you know. And even when I had to strip away everything else and all of the religious beliefs and everything, and I was like, oh, I don't know if any of that is true,

[00:23:27] but still I know I have this relationship. And I think that really helped me through a lot of stuff as well. And I actively looked for positive things to do with my mind. I mean, I actively tried all kinds of stuff, you know,

[00:23:40] positive thinking, all of this kind of stuff. I mean, I really did try that stuff and it makes a difference. I don't think you can't just go with the positive thinking stuff for sure.

[00:23:50] You have to go back and do the deep work of healing eventually, which I also did, but it definitely helps if you really try to have a more positive mindset as you're going through anything in life, building a new life. Totally. I tell our family motto. Sure. Yeah.

[00:24:07] So, you know, going through this whole thing, we watched a documentary and it was about Michael Jordan. But anyway, it was like his parents told him always turn a negative into a positive. And that just became my mantra in my head.

[00:24:19] I never really done anything like that, you know, like consciously, but I really was like, I'm going to turn this negative into a positive. And you have to have a discipline or psychology. One of the things that I hear across the board

[00:24:29] and the things that you've shared with us is you have a strong discipline. It sounds like I think disciplines the backbone to getting through any of that stuff. Wouldn't you say so? Yes. And I'd say that faith is probably the most discipline. It's pretty amazing.

[00:24:42] I actually created a book. It's a small PDF book and with all these different sort of psychological hacks I used in my life to try to keep a positive outlet, to keep moving forward, to get through difficult things.

[00:24:54] I created this little PDF book and I'll share it, you know, people stay till the end. I'll tell you how you can get access to it for free. And one of the things I put in that book is very much what you just said,

[00:25:03] Nippy, which is growing up. One of the mental hacks that I had was using the verse and we know that all things work together for good to them that love God. And what you just said was turn everything bad into a good.

[00:25:15] And that was exactly what I do in my mind. I would say, okay, this bad thing is happening. I'm suffering. It's very painful. But I would visualize a future where I'd say, well, God promised that everything bad is going to be turned into something

[00:25:29] good for me in the future. I don't know what it is, but I would start to visualize or think of things in the future of how this bad thing happening right now might turn into something good. Right. And it's actually a psychological technique, which I didn't know

[00:25:44] it was using because I was, you know, a kid, but, you know, it's future pacing where you're taking yourself out of that intense pain of the moment and you're visualizing a future when things are going to be better and when something good is going to come at it.

[00:25:58] You're literally setting your mind up for that. And that's what I would do all the time. And I think it really helped me to get through a lot of that trauma a little more easily. For that something, I think we should absolutely teach our kids.

[00:26:13] It's because you really, you can't protect your kids from everything. You can try to be the best parents you can, but you can't control everything in their life. So I want to give kids the resilience techniques that they

[00:26:25] can use and to help them get through their own traumas. I think it's so important that we teach that. I'm all about resiliency and thinking positively and everything. The line that I'm still trying to find for myself,

[00:26:36] maybe you have a comment on this is how do you make sure to not also fall into the spiritual bypassing trap and just like some people I find don't deal with the pain. I see the skill set of being able to pull oneself out of

[00:26:50] a, you know, a rut or something challenging to get to the positive or like to go into the future to not stay and suffer. And I see this a lot in the spiritual space where people are like so positive and I mean it's great, but they bypassed.

[00:27:02] They haven't done the work. They haven't done the work. Like how do you, you know what I mean? Like how do you find that balance? Cause I don't always know. Well, you have to understand that you use different tools depending on what you need in that moment. Right?

[00:27:14] So you're right in the middle of something really horrible this heartbreak or crying your eyes out, you know, whatever, you're like, okay, I need to move through this. Right? I need to see a better future here. Right? I can only do this for a few days.

[00:27:25] So that's one thing, but you still have to go back and do the work. And that's what I learned later in life when I started working with coaches and certain therapists who had these really beautiful healing techniques, which helped me go

[00:27:38] back and deal with the traumas, which I hadn't fully dealt with at the time. And it's so important to do that. And to do that, you do have to go back. You have to be in that moment in that pain again for a short time, right?

[00:27:50] So you reconnect up your emotional centers. Right? And then you work through the process. There's literally a healing process that you can do. And there's lots of techniques out there and you do have to be willing to do that.

[00:28:03] And I've seen a lot of people who actually wrote about this technique because it was one of the most helpful for me. I wrote some of the most helpful things that I was able to do in a book called I own me. And it's on my website.

[00:28:15] It's for women recovering from abuse or really, you know, anything, but really about reclaiming how to reclaim your self ownership of your body, how to get through some of the really difficult things that it kind of forces on your psyche and behaviors you start acting out afterwards.

[00:28:28] And so, you know, when I learned these processes and how to do this for myself, I felt very empowered. But I saw that when I would give it to other people, oftentimes I'd say, Hey, hey, did you do it? Did you try that process?

[00:28:41] You know, and they're like, Oh no, no, no, I'm too afraid. I'm too afraid. I'm too afraid to go there, you know? So if you're in that space, you're just I'm too afraid to go there. I'm just going to try to just think positive focus on the positive.

[00:28:54] Then you're really cheating yourself out of the healing, you know, because it's like you have a sore, like this pus filled sore under the skin and anytime somebody touches it, it's like, this shock of pain and you like scream

[00:29:06] or, you know, you have this, it's a trigger, right? You have this big reaction and you're like, well, I'm just going to keep living with this year after year after year versus now I'm going to go in with a little, you know, surgical instrument.

[00:29:18] We're going to cut it, drain it, we're going to heal it. And then I'm going to walk, leave it behind. Right? They don't understand that their behaviors are still trauma informed. Yeah. And so that to me, I'm like, I would rather take a little

[00:29:32] bit of intense pain that I am consciously going into for the goal of healing rather than live with this low level thing that can sneak up on me at any minute and kind of mess up my relationships in my life.

[00:29:48] Where did it go from your own healing journey to decide to be public and to risk your career, potential dating, all of these things, your reputation for people who are like, oh, this is like, listen, trust me, I get this one. Oh, there's that girl from the cult.

[00:30:05] Why'd you decide to, you know, teach people your lemonade for lack of a better word? I thought about it for a long time and I had to have a really important why. And when I created the framework, I saw the power of

[00:30:18] it, the power of what it could do in our society and the power of what it could do for helping people's healing journey just to get that real clarity and distinction on what's happening to them, what's happening around them and the principles that we could teach our children.

[00:30:30] That's when to me that was worth it, I guess. I'd already done a lot of the healing work over time. And to me, that was an important enough why. And I knew that I couldn't share that with people without telling the story, you know, of like why it

[00:30:46] was so important and why it impacted me so deeply. Like I had to share that I had to be vulnerable. And also I felt like, you know, there's a lot of young people and kids who grown up in the family

[00:30:58] and a lot or all of these cults, you know, to give them like a context now that they were out of the needed context for how to understand what it happened to them. It could be so difficult to understand it.

[00:31:10] So I mean, those are some of the big reasons I wanted, I decided to write the book. And I'll be honest when I started writing the book, I did not necessarily think I was going to go in deeply into all of the different, like

[00:31:24] into different sexual traumas and like be as open about it as I was. I have noticed that a lot of people who have written books, they don't like describe what happened to them. And I thought it's important to describe it because

[00:31:39] even people who didn't grow up in that group, you know, they may be experiencing it in a family life or in some other way and they need to be able to say, oh, that's me. I understand that that happened to me too,

[00:31:50] even though I wasn't in that cult. And this is how I can move forward. And I think that's the reason why I'm so passionate about this episode. And I'm sure you've heard of it, but I'm not going to be talking about it.

[00:32:12] I'm just going to talk about it. I'm going to talk about it because sometimes listening to conversations about heavy topics can really make you tighten up, you know? And remember, a little bit culty loves you. Also come hang out with us on Patreon after you finish this episode.

[00:32:29] It's fun over there. Fun is good. And now here's a brief message from our friend. Well, I definitely have some non-negotiables. Like, I'm in Vancouver right now and I'm spending literally as much time as I can outside of nature. Hashtag cold pools, hashtag crushing it.

[00:32:43] Nature is a non-negotiable. Not enough time in the fresh air and the trees around me and I start to feel not great, not myself, not grounded. Therapy Day is a bit like my nature walks. I try to not miss it and I know I'm just

[00:32:54] going to feel so much better all around if I make it a priority. I get so much out of it. It helps me put my worries and anxieties in their rightful place and helps me clear my mind so I can focus on what I really need

[00:33:04] and sometimes what I don't need. Like, I don't need to be overbooking myself just because I hate to say no to people. You know what I mean? Thanks, Therapy. Thanks for helping me see that. And if you're thinking of starting therapy, give Better Help or Try.

[00:33:14] It's entirely online designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire and get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Look, even when we know what makes us happy, it's hard to make time for it.

[00:33:28] But when you feel like you have no time for yourself, non-negotiables like therapy are more important than ever. Never skip Therapy Day with Better Help. Visit betterhelp.com slash culti today to get 10% off your first month. That's Better Help H-E-L-P dot com slash culti. Meals bring people together.

[00:33:46] But for many families providing their next meal can be a challenge. You can help by participating in Macy's annual Feeding the Hungry Food Drive. All proceeds go toward local food banks and families. Now through January 31st, you can purchase an icon in-store or online

[00:34:02] or watch out for the blue Feeding the Hungry Shelf Tags where a portion of your purchase will be donated to local pantries. Together, we can combat hunger in our local communities at Macy's. I definitely related, especially your internal dialogue with yourself, how you got through stuff,

[00:34:22] how you were able to flip things. There was one thing I wrote down that I thought was it was like the first time you saw a picture of your grandpa and Maria and you were like oh, and you were definitely disappointed.

[00:34:33] And then you had to flip it in your head that was probably a test to make sure that you weren't like everything that was maybe a red flag, you were able to show the audience how you talked yourself through it. Right? Yeah.

[00:34:46] And I think that's important because we all do that to ourselves all the time. We talk ourselves out of our instincts or we have a bad feeling about someone when we talk ourselves through it or we don't want to do something,

[00:34:56] we're like, oh, well, I need to be more loving. You know what I mean? Like we're constantly doing that. So it's important to have that dialogue. Absolutely. Visible. Visible, especially like with the red flags and knowing what you know now. Like I bet if somebody tried to,

[00:35:10] even though your call was different than my call, if somebody tried to sign you up for something like Nexium, you'd instantly say no just when they put the pressure on you to get the 48 hour discount, right? You'd be like, eh, no, red flag, something's not right, right?

[00:35:23] You may not know that Keith Manieri is also a pedophile, but you wouldn't even get so far as the first training, right? Just like if I met a family international witnessing and trying to get me to get Jesus into my heart

[00:35:35] on the street, like I know that red flag. You know what I mean? Like we can learn from each other's various cult experiences and I think anyone who reads this, they don't have to be in a cult like you just said. They'll recognize the internal dialogue

[00:35:50] of justifying, explaining, oh well he probably meant well when he said that and how we excuse behaviors that are not acceptable and things like that. I want to know the title, I don't actually know why you called it, Sex Cult Men. Sex Cult Men?

[00:36:05] Yeah, I can make it a guess, but from your words? It was actually kind of tongue in cheek. So I have a lot of humor about just some of the crazy stuff that happened. Like I tell the story about one time they made everybody

[00:36:15] wear saris, which are basically like a piece of cloth that you tie around your waist if you're a guy, you tie over your breast if you're a woman. This is crazy stuff that they would do. So I had a lot of humor, stuff I could look back on

[00:36:27] and laugh like how could people have thought that was a good idea? How did they come along with that? Or like the sexy videos? The sexy videos that they made with the children dancing with the skirt? Yeah, well that was a little more serious

[00:36:41] than making everybody wear saris. But I actually came up with the title a few years before I wrote the book, quite a few years. I was doing a meditation retreat in Sri Lanka doing like a 10 day Vipassana meditation retreat where you are silent for 10 days

[00:36:55] and meditate eight hours a day and stuff. This is another example I had never meditated in my life. So I decided to throw myself into the deep end. Oh my God, that's tough. I was like I'm going to go crazy or I'm going to learn how to meditate.

[00:37:07] Oh my God. I like it. But I remember there were these little Buddhist nuns at the monastery about 12 years old wearing their red robes and I was helping them. I was helping, actually I did a class for them

[00:37:18] to teach them how to clean because this is Sri Lanka. It was really dirty everywhere. So the first few days I was like just be, just be, just be, you know. And then I was like no, I need a help.

[00:37:28] It'd be, what did I do the same thing? Don't you think? I'm not going to meditate. We got to clean this place up. We'd all be drinking matcha. So I cleaned our dining eating area and I showed them how to do it and the nuns were super happy.

[00:37:42] But just watching them they would sit down at the little plastic table with their books and they would be chanting Buddhist scriptures for hours and stuff. And I was like, this is so familiar. This feels so familiar to me.

[00:37:54] And I was like, oh my God, I grew up like this. I grew up like this. I grew up like a nun in the religious order like this. Except there was a lot of sex around. So I said, so I'm going to write a book

[00:38:05] and I'm going to call it, My Life Is a Sex Called Nun. It was kind of a joke. That makes so much sense. Yeah, you really, that's where the discipline comes from, right? All the farm work and the daily traditions and rituals. Like, yes, 100%.

[00:38:21] How many people have a similar story that you have that aren't saying anything right now? I would say there's a lot of people with a similar story to mine who were born into the first generation of the group because the child sexual stuff was banned

[00:38:37] after a certain time period. I think 1980 started kind of going out, 86, 89 maybe. It was completely banned. So if you were born earlier in the group, you would have had some of those experiences. The rest of the experiences, you know, the manipulation and everything else,

[00:38:55] that was I think a lot of people had those experiences regardless. And what's happening with the group now? Do you, are you in touch with anybody or are you in touch with X members or anyone? No, I believe, and I talk about at the end of the book

[00:39:08] is just that it's basically been disbanded in the sense that there's no communal living, but there are still like a group of people who stay in contact with the letters. They still receive these from, you know, I guess Karen's or I don't know who,

[00:39:20] you know, there's still maybe a couple of thousand people that are still kind of in that doctrine. What would you like to see happen ultimately in your dream world? I would like them to, you know, use the framework to get clarity on what happened to them,

[00:39:35] maybe what they did to others and how those things were wrong and how those things and those doctrines, you know, were very much not what the Bible teaches because they do, you know, they believe very devoutly in the Bible and Jesus said, but those doctrines are actually not

[00:39:51] what the Bible teaches at all. And at least start by getting clarity there, you know, so that they don't think that those things are okay or continue to propagate them so that they have the chance to apologize to their kids and, you know, really hopefully help

[00:40:05] that healing process along. And how's your relationship with your parents now? I have a good relationship with both of my parents. They both left group long time ago. They both took some years to kind of be able to say, oh, you know, I realized these things are wrong,

[00:40:18] but they did eventually and I have, I've had a lot of discussions with my mother with the framework and going through experiences that I had, experiences that she had. I talked to them extensively and interviewed them to make sure I was getting details right for the book.

[00:40:33] So did they like the book? Yes, they actually think I did a really good job with the book. Of course, you know, they don't always paint it in the best light, but the thing I admire about them is that in a way their idealism is real

[00:40:46] in the sense that when they read the book, they were like, well, I think this will help a lot of people. Yeah. You know? So having that open us and being willing to kind of be exposed in that way, seeing the potential good that it could do. Right.

[00:41:00] Well, that shows who they were from the beginning, people who wanted to help. And while they got off track with this particular framework, I've always felt that with them. And clearly that's a value they've passed along to you to help people.

[00:41:12] So where does the audience find you now if they want to continue being helped? So I've got some really exciting stuff to share with your audience. One is if you want to get this free ebook that I talked about called, I think I called 15 Tools for Happiness.

[00:41:27] You can send a message to me on Instagram. I am Faith Jones. That's my Instagram handle. I am Faith Jones. Send a message to me saying Coltty. Okay. Colty for this podcast. And it'll start at like an automatic bot that will you walk through that bot

[00:41:43] and it will send you that book for free. Okay. And that's just some really things I've found very helpful in my life. You can also get me on my website, faithjones.com. And the other book I wrote is on the website. So you can buy that there.

[00:41:57] The paperback copy is coming out. So lots of exciting stuff. If you haven't read the book yet, you'll be able to get that on Kindle or the paperback is coming out in November. I will also recommend the Audible. I love listening.

[00:42:11] I'll probably end up buying the hard copy of your book for my bookshelf anyway. There's some good nuggets in there. There's some good nuggets. Well, thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much, Faith. It was great. Like Nipi said right at the beginning,

[00:42:22] these things have existed for so long because people leave and they're ashamed and they don't talk about it and the fact that you are talking about it and shining light on these abuses just makes it. Well, you win. It doesn't become your Kelly's heel in life. Yeah.

[00:42:35] And clearly you're winning. Yeah. And I mean, I kept it a total secret for almost 20 years. I didn't say to anybody, I kept it a total secret. So I totally understand if that's the place that you're still in, but there is a kind of freedom.

[00:42:50] I must say when I did the TEDx talk, which please check out the TEDx talk, it's very important. It's called I Own Me. And when I did that one, oh my God, that was the hardest because I was coming out publicly and saying some of the stuff

[00:43:02] I said in that TEDx talk. That was really hard to do. You could tell. But Faith, that was your first, that was your coming out? She pushed through it. That was my coming out. Like that's a huge stage literally to come out on.

[00:43:13] Faith goes big or goes home. No, no, but like I've had, remember when I was going to do one then I was pregnant and like, no, I'm not, I'm not like, I wanted, and maybe I still will at some point, but like, I was like,

[00:43:22] I'm not ready to do it, Ted. I'm too traumatized to be on stage and talk about this. So the fact that you went from being private to TEDx in this case is like, it's crazy. Honestly, it's crazy as someone who's been in your...

[00:43:34] Jump off the high dive first. Like yeah, you could have worked your way up there. So maybe there's another one. Meditate? I'm going to struggle. I'll come for 10 days. In your future about, yeah, yeah, meditate with, yeah, because you've passed in a,

[00:43:48] which I don't even know how I, yeah, I've purposely not done that because I know I will not make it past day one. There's no way, there's no way. It's just not in my cards, but that's okay. Anyway, I hope that we can keep in touch.

[00:43:59] Let us know about how we can collaborate and keep shining light together and hopefully one day we get to meet and high five. Yes, I'd love to. Yeah. I'd love to. And I'm also passionate about the practical side,

[00:44:11] you know, because when you get out of a group like that or even a bad marriage or whatever it is, you know, you've got to recreate your whole life. So I'm passionate about the practical side, the financial side. I work with people in companies now,

[00:44:23] helping them get their businesses and life set up in a framework where they can create a more, a better sense of security for themselves. Because for me, that is so important as well as creating my own sense of security and income,

[00:44:37] you know, that's a huge part of it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Like that. Because if you are financially dependent, then you are subject to a need. There's more trauma. Well, that's actually one of the things we're going to, we had to do a Patreon about where we unpacked the episode,

[00:44:52] and Nipi and I are going to do a comparison of Nexium to Children of God. And that's one thing that I was like, oh, that's interesting because clearly David wanted people to be dependent financially and not have any resources to rely on them for themselves.

[00:45:05] And I was like, oh, that's so funny because Keith really, you know, promoted success in making money. But then I was like, really most people did not make money. Well, this chapter in my book, Illusion of Hope, right?

[00:45:14] Where he was alluding that you could make all this money, but most people were entirely dependent on the group and didn't leave. In fact, the people that are still loyal, there's only a very small handful. Like they don't have anything else because they burned all their other bridges.

[00:45:26] Yeah. But you can create bridges. Yeah, for sure. You can. You can. And maybe when they wake up and I'm praying that they do. We'll send them your way. We'll send them your way. And we'll just, we'll drop that little nugget for our audience

[00:45:37] and maybe we'll do a get back on your feet collaboration and a Patreon unpack of Comparative Children of God to Nexium. We love to unpack here. Oh, faith. Thank you, faith. Because I hope we get to high five in person one day. Yeah, me too. That'll be fun.

[00:45:53] Stay safe down there. All right, guys. That was the end of part two. Hope you enjoyed it. Let us know what you think about this episode. Be sure to hit us up over on Instagram or leave us a voicemail as always on our website at a littlebitculti.com.

[00:46:19] And as always, just know that anything you say or do in our voicemail might be played on this podcast very soon. We'll be back here very soon with a new episode. But in the meantime, you can join us over on Patreon for more discussion of Faith Jones

[00:46:32] and the Children of God cult, plus other fun bonus content and the VOW season two Bajama Party live stream situations that are shaping up to be the best and funniest part of our weeks. Also, a reminder that our sponsors are listed on our website.

[00:46:46] Only purchase the products there if you're interested in them. But when you support our sponsors, you support this podcast. That's all the housekeeping I have. Anything else that you have, Nip? No, you're doing great. You keep the house very, very clean. That I do.

[00:46:58] And you keep your imitations golden. For those of you who haven't seen Nipy's imitation over on the Patreon, you are missing out on some comedy, comedy gold. God, I'm proud of my husband. All right, all right. Love you, babe. Love you too, baby. Till next time.

[00:47:14] Bye for now. Sinking down to the depths of the ocean I'm hanging on to the weight of my... But I know... And for more background on what brought us here, check out Sarah's page-turning memoir. It's called Scarred. The true story of how I escaped Maxim,

[00:48:04] the cult that bound my life. It's available on Amazon, Audible, Narrated by My Life, and at most bookstores. A Little Bit Colty is a talkhouse podcast and a Trace 120 production. We're executive produced by Sarah Edmondson and Anthony Nipy Ames with writing, research, and additional production support

[00:48:20] by senior producer Jess Tardy. We're edited, mixed, and mastered by our rocking producer Will Rutherford of Citizens of Sound. And our amazing theme song, Cultivated, is by John Bryant and co-written by Nigel Asselin. Thank you for listening.