The Lemurian Sisters: Jennings Brown on Liana Shanti

[00:00:00] This winter, take your icon pass north. North to abundant access, to powder-skiing legacy, to independent spirit. North where easy to get to, meets worlds away. Go north to Snow Basin. Now on the icon pass. The views and opinions expressed by a little bit cultier, those are the hosts.

[00:00:31] And don't reflect the official policy or position of the podcast, right Sarah? Correct. Any of the quote, fire content, I prefer lava content, provided by our guest blogger, sponsors, or authors of the opinion

[00:00:43] and are not intended to malign a religion, a group, a club, an organization, business individual, anyone or anything. Unless Sarah? You're a douchebag. Yeah, I mean pretty much. Also, we're not doctors, psychologists or wizards.

[00:00:57] We're just two non-experts trying to make you a friendly and formative podcast based on our experience that we've turned into wisdom. Okay? Good talk. Okay. Hey everybody, Sarah Edmondson here. And I'm Anthony Ames, aka Nippy, Sarah's husband, and you're listening to

[00:01:20] A Little Bit Cultie, aka ALBC, a podcast about what happens when devotion goes to the dark side. We've been there and back again.

[00:01:29] A little about us, true story, we met and fell in love in a cult, and then we woke up and got the hell out of dodge. And the whole thing was captured in HBO docu-series The Val now in its second season.

[00:01:41] I also wrote about our experience in my memoir, Skard, the true story of how I escaped Nexium, the cult that bound my life.

[00:01:48] Look at us, couple of married podcasters who just happened to have a weekly date night where we interview experts and advocates and things like cult awareness and mind control. Wait, wait, this does not count toward date night, babe. We got to schedule that, that's separate.

[00:02:01] So it's two days? We got to hang out? We do this podcast thing because we learned a lot on our exit ramp out of Nexium. It's still on that journey and we want to pay the lessons forward with the help of other cult survivors and whistleblowers.

[00:02:13] We know all too well that culty things happen. It happens to people every day, across every walk of life. So join us each week to tackle these culty dynamics everywhere from online dating to mega churches and multi-level market.

[00:02:24] This stuff really is everywhere. The Cultiverse just keeps on expanding and so are we. Welcome to season five of A Little Bit Cultie, serving cult content and word salads weekly on your favorite podcast platforms. Learn more at alittlebitculti.com

[00:02:44] Welcome back everybody to this week's episode of A Little Bit Cultie. We have a very special guest today, somebody who jumped the queue because this information is breaking news in the Cultiverse. And he's our most invited guest so far. Episode three with the investigative reporter extraordinaire Jennings Brown.

[00:03:13] JB If you've listened to our episode with Sheila Swan and Fellowship of Friends, you'll know how awesome he is. And if you haven't, go back and listen. His podcast The Gateway, which focuses on Teal Swan, inspired a docu-series called The Deep End on Hulu in free form.

[00:03:27] After recording his last episode with us, Jennings was flooded with all sorts of tips about culty organizations around the world. The most alarming story of all was that of Leanna Shanti, the bizarre and deeply unsettling tale of the Lumarian sisters.

[00:03:39] The Lumarian sisters? Seriously? Come on. Where do we even start with that? We've got an online wellness and spirituality guru amassing female followers at an alarming rate, telling them to cut ties with their family, which she calls family cults.

[00:03:53] In order to save their children from a ruling class of evil reptilian creatures who created the COVID-19 scam demic, which is actually just a Luciferian tool to harvest their innocent souls. Clearly inspired by QAnon doesn't originality count for anything anymore.

[00:04:07] She warned her followers that government would soon force unvaccinated adults and children into concentration camps, and that they needed to move with their kids to Florida where they would be safe.

[00:04:15] This is such a crazy amalgamation of all of the things we've already discussed in this podcast like parental alienation with Dr. Coachella, cutting families off, like disconnecting like Scientology. There's elements of being a prepper. There's New Age stuff, wellness from Goop, MLM, catfishing. Cult of the algorithm.

[00:04:33] And she says she has a direct line to Jesus, again, big red flag. Of course. Of course. And the Akashic Records making appearance.

[00:04:39] And then like throwing some like truths about like how great green juice is because we know I'm a big fan of that and like damaging aspects of the patriarchy. Are you saying green juice is a red flag? It is now. It is now. I mean.

[00:04:54] But the question is who's the real woman behind Leanna Shanti's airbrushed, nymph-like online persona and what is her fate? According to an ex-member in Jennings reporting for The Daily Beast, she collects private information and she weaponizes people's pain points. Sounds familiar, Sarah.

[00:05:10] She is the ultimate spiritual grifter and today Jennings Brown breaks it down for us. Welcome JB. Another cult. Another interview. Hey, it's good to be here. Well, we have so much to ask you about our topic for today.

[00:05:34] Tell us a little bit about like what's happened since we saw you last, since you were reporting on Teal Swan and then how did this come into your preview? This new topic. Yeah. I mean, you actually play a part in it.

[00:05:44] I was on like about a year ago after the deep end had come out. So we were talking about Teal Swan and I'd also released the Revelations podcast about the Fellowship of Friends and I got flooded with tips after that.

[00:05:59] Like my Twitter and Instagram DMs are just like a garbage fire of weird culty, you know, and spiritual abuse and trauma. And I mean, it's great.

[00:06:08] It's like it's a it's a blessing to curse because I never know when I check my DMs if it's going to be like a fun meme or something related to this.

[00:06:17] But it's, you know, as a journalist, it's great to have tips and highly encourage any listeners to keep those coming because I mean, I've got so many things I'm looking into now. But one of them really stood out and just honestly, I mean, it horrified me.

[00:06:30] I was like, this is like a type of spiritual organization I haven't seen before. It seemed like somebody was kind of taking the Teal playbook and truly amplifying it.

[00:06:41] And a lot of insidious stuff was happening and a lot of families and a lot of children were wrapped up into it. So I dove in pretty quickly and you know, have been investigating this character, Liana Shanti, since then.

[00:06:53] And what was your what was your first red flag that it was really no bueno? Well, the way it was presented to me is like it was this former Wall Street lawyer who had created this new who had this sort of catfish alter ego character online

[00:07:09] and was driving women around the world to like cut off their families and basically take their children overnight and like move them all across national and state borders to certain places that Liana was telling me to go, mostly Florida.

[00:07:25] So you had a lot of people in Canada and all over the country, but a large contingent in Canada. Anyway, they're all moving to Florida to kind of prepare for the end of the world.

[00:07:35] And it was all sort of wrapped up in fear of vaccines and mandates and all that. I mean, that's where it started, but it got truly, you know, it was like, they're sort of these reptilian overlords

[00:07:47] that are causing that are creating all of this this fear around the pandemic and they're going to lock you and your children up into concentration camps and force you to get vaccinated. And the vaccine kills the soul.

[00:07:57] And if you if you go near anybody who's been vaccinated, you know, they can it will shed on you and harm you. So there was just this real frenzy of fear that I think she whipped up online and had people just leaving.

[00:08:09] I mean, again in the middle of the night, like taking their kids and whatever they put in their car and fleeing to Florida and just cutting off their entire family. Did it start out that way?

[00:08:17] Or what like when you talk to acts members, what was the thing that initially drew them because it usually doesn't start so extreme, right? Right. It really it started pretty chill.

[00:08:26] And then I think during the pandemic, like a lot of things that got really radical and ramped up. Yeah. I mean, it took me a long time to figure out who was sort of behind this and in the origin story.

[00:08:37] But Leanna Shanti appeared online in like 2012 as this sort of online spiritual. It was more like health stuff. It was kind of like vegan health, like raw diet things and juice cleanses. That's where I would have been hooked by the way. Right.

[00:08:52] Like a lot of people got into it. You know, it's like a lot of people who like one woman who was a major source said like it was her third kid and she was having postpartum depression and health issues and doctors weren't taking her seriously.

[00:09:05] And she felt very gaslight by by, you know, the medical institution. Like she just, she wasn't. Yeah. She was like, I don't want to feel this way. And they were like, maybe you're making it up. So she went on looking up for answers online and found this community.

[00:09:18] I mean, the kind of entry point is the health mastery institute. It's this thing that Leanna created. And it's just like, you know, and then there's like this online Facebook community of all these women who are followers who are very supportive.

[00:09:28] And she finally found the validation that she always wanted in this group or I mean that she wanted from doctors. And it was pretty basic stuff like cut out your cut out process foods and, you know, it'll help your hormones balance. And it worked.

[00:09:40] And then they were like, well, I think you need to, you know, if you've healed your body and mind now you need to go deeper into the spiritual teachings.

[00:09:46] And that's when they go deeper into Leanna's like Lemurian mystery school is kind of the main of the name of this group that is more in the spiritual stuff. Also 10 years ago, that wasn't on your radar for it.

[00:09:58] It wasn't a red flag 10 years ago to be doing stuff like that. Right. It was kind of somewhat benign. Right. And it didn't, it wasn't that stuff wasn't introduced then.

[00:10:06] I mean, it was it was pretty at first, she was just giving health advice and then over time people are like, wow, you cure my cancer. You helped me with this. And I think it kind of fed her ego. And she started a lot of like self mythologizing.

[00:10:19] And, you know, she's been talking to Jesus ever since she was two and she survived two near death experiences.

[00:10:24] One like being struck by lightning and she can access the Akashic records much like Tiel Swan and a lot of spiritual gurus, you know, all the information in the universe. They're stored in Wales, which goes, there's a lot of like, that's new.

[00:10:35] She's from Lemaria, like I think a descendant of Lemaria, which is kind of like Atlantis, but it's more like women empowerment in Lantus.

[00:10:43] So she's from Lemaria and the whales, a lot of the kind of aesthetics are sort of this like dolphins and mermaids and whales and unicorns and very like Lisa Frank. And it's mostly women followers.

[00:10:55] I mean, it's like 99% women followers and they're all Lemarian sisters and they're all going to kind of return to Lemaria. And then she gives them Lemarian names that she reads from the Akashic records, which are all sound very Hawaiian.

[00:11:06] It's all kind of seems like appropriated from like Pacific Islander culture stuff, you know, like Malia, Kalea, you know, names like that. But anyway, so it was like slowly evolving.

[00:11:15] She was getting more like a goddess and people started kind of calling her Jesus because she had the access to Jesus and she wouldn't correct them. And then right before COVID, she had about like 50 hardcore followers then.

[00:11:29] And that's when there was a lot of chaos and things were shutting down so quickly and we didn't know who to listen to.

[00:11:34] And you know, a lot of like, I mean, it was so chaotic and scary and people had trusted her and they were all very, you know, they're very active in her Facebook group. Even though, you know, they've never met her.

[00:11:44] Nobody talks to her, nobody meets her in person. I mean, it's all audio courses and texts and messages. And still? Yeah, she's still people refer to her as a catfish because this character online that she's created, it looks very different from the real person.

[00:11:58] I mean, it's like this young, ageless, beautiful, almost like cartoonish character that they're all following who is sort of a fabrication.

[00:12:08] Very similar to QAnon or something where people are just kind of following the teachings of this online person that they've never met and they don't know the true identity of.

[00:12:16] And then COVID, she really started ramping it up as people were going to her for, you know, she was at first it was very calming like, hey, don't, don't buy into the panic. You know, just take your vitamin C like just you're working to get through this.

[00:12:28] And I think it was very comforting. But then she started saying like, don't do zoom because that's how they capture your soul or something. And so that was a main source of- That might be true. That might be true actually. True. Absolutely.

[00:12:41] I mean, with a lot of this stuff there's like kernels and through stuff. Yeah. But it's, yeah, but you know, that was like a way we all sort of communicated and found social connection.

[00:12:50] And she was like, don't go to national parks or certain places because you might get abducted. Oh, she's controlling information and behavior. Bingo. Yeah. And she was able to do it all online because of the conditions of the pandemic.

[00:13:01] And a lot of this stuff I've realized like a lot of the things that cults and high control groups have to spend years doing, you know, she was able to sort of do online. Like there was a lot of posting of confessions in the group.

[00:13:16] And then now she sort of weaponizes that, you know, when it takes like groups that get this sort of collateral over years, well, she would, you know, people are like eager to post that now.

[00:13:24] And then once she kicks them out, you know, if they like some people get kicked out, they'll say for instance, you know, she'll say don't listen to any other podcast. Don't communicate with anybody outside of this Facebook group. And they're like, what about Joe Rogan?

[00:13:34] I thought you liked Joe Rogan. And she'll be like, nope, you're out. She'll kick them out for challenging her. And then she'll start posting all these confessions and like tagging their employers and then, you know, bringing up their family and like warping it into darker things.

[00:13:46] You saw proof of her doing that? Yes. I mean, they sent me, I have, you know, thousands of screenshots from these internal Facebook conversations and eventually moved to Signal.

[00:13:56] And the darker part of that that I was able to confirm through talking to ex-members and through talking and through these corroborating with these screenshots is it starts where you listen to her audio courses. There's mother wound, father wound, narcissistic.

[00:14:07] I've listened to them and they're very compelling and it's very like hypnotic. And she has you listen to these like hour to hour courses multiple times a day and they start to kind of cast a shadow over your childhood memories.

[00:14:19] You know, you're kind of thinking like, well, that maybe that time they locked them. They left me in the car to go in the grocery store. It was abuse, maybe like when they were hugging me, it was grooming.

[00:14:26] I mean, if you go into it fresh without an awareness of this kind of stuff, it does kind of shape your understanding.

[00:14:32] And she has people, you know, there's these private signal signal groups where people are encouraged to ask her questions and then she accesses the Cossack records and reads psychically what happened.

[00:14:42] And people are, I mean, it was like every day, people are like, I have a memory of like something happening. Did somebody abuse me? And she'd say yes.

[00:14:49] You know, it was always like, you know, she would always provide clarity and it was always like, yes, you were sexually abused in this way by this person.

[00:14:56] And then like they started asking about their kids because she'll say things like if your kid is wetting your bed, it's a sign that they've been sexually abused. So then they'll ask like, well, who's abusing my kid? And they'll say, well, it's your brother.

[00:15:07] It's your it's your husband or whatever. And then they'll go to the husband or the family and be like, hey, I think these I'm starting to think that, you know, my kid or I was abused in my childhood.

[00:15:17] And then they they don't respond well to that because it's out of nowhere from somebody they've been talking to online. So then they go back to Leon and they're like, well, my dad didn't believe me or my husband didn't believe me.

[00:15:27] And she's like, well, it's because he's cheating on you or it's because they abused you. And then these memories become very real.

[00:15:32] And again, this is the sort of stuff you see with a lot of groups and teal swan this kind of like altering of memory or like, I mean, it's a very messy topic. But and I'm not here to say that everybody involved this group.

[00:15:42] I mean, obviously like statistically, you know, I'm sure that there is a lot of abuse and pain and suffering in this in this group. And like a lot of these allegations can be real.

[00:15:51] But there's this pattern of people joining and and then these allegations come up, these new memories. And then the majority, if not like 90% of the women or more divorce their husbands after joining the group and cut off their family.

[00:16:07] And a good percentage of them like picked up their kids and fled to Florida to prepare for this sort of apocalyptic event. And the kids are wrapped up in this.

[00:16:16] And a lot of them and Lyanna sort of urges people to to try to get custody, soul custody of the kids. And you know, a lot of these people are starting to realize that maybe the father is an abuser through working with Lyanna.

[00:16:27] So there's I mean, I had some one woman tell me, you know, she she coached her child to say that the dad abused her. And she got in the Child Protective Services. And there seems to be a lot of this. I can't confirm that everybody's doing it.

[00:16:40] I know of two instances where, you know, one woman was found to be by a jury to be coaching her child to say that the father abused them.

[00:16:47] And one woman told me she, you know, because of working with Lyanna, she says in her words, I was so brainwashed that I believe that my child was being abused or her by my husband.

[00:16:56] So I coached, I did the coaching thing and I she filmed him and sent to Child Protective Services. CPS found nothing. She ended up kind of spiraling from all these new realizations and had all this new anxiety and panic attacks, ended up going to inpatient psychiatric care.

[00:17:11] And that's where she started the it started to crack that she because Lyanna says, you know, counselors are evil doctors are evil psychiatrists are evil. But here she was like, Oh, these people do seem to be trying to help me. Also, she was logged off.

[00:17:22] She couldn't really access the Facebook group. So it kind of helped break the programming. And now she's like, I could not have asked for a better father to my children.

[00:17:30] I was just so caught up in it that I was convinced that he was evil and harmful and that my parents were.

[00:17:34] And in my family was, and she just totally cut off her entire family all because she, you know, she joined looking for answers about her postpartum health issues. And then it just completely shattered her life and her family life.

[00:17:46] Is it a case where if there's not buying and you're not incentivized to find these problems with you that you're shunned? Like she kicks you out. So if you're not kind of obedient to her process, that's problematic.

[00:17:58] Yeah, there's I think a part of it is just it's sort of the some of it is sort of the social engineering within the group. You know, everybody there's a real urge like every time she releases a new course, a new program.

[00:18:08] I mean, she has all these audio courses that are hundreds or thousands of dollars and she's always releasing like new ones about business or your mother wound, your father wound and all that.

[00:18:18] And there's a real urge to get them as soon as she drops them, you know, and it's not people like, well, I bought a second time because you know, it was helping me so much.

[00:18:26] And and then there's also, you know, there's a lot of health and Candida cleanses and coffee animals in these teachings. So people will be like, oh, I went however many days doing juice cleanses, you know, and then there's so the real real pushed out do each other.

[00:18:39] And so I'm sure she doesn't discourage that. And it seems like she does encourage that. So something within the group to just do everything. And yeah, I mean, I feel like it's she'll tell people like your low frequency, whatever.

[00:18:50] I think that can kind of be a signal to like you're you can't you're not paying for these courses and you need to find a way. And she'll have people like quit their jobs to sort of become a health coach.

[00:18:58] And of course, if they're health coach, they're only selling her programs. So there is kind of an MLM component to this with all the courses. Yeah, yeah, I had that in my notes.

[00:19:08] It's such an interesting combination of the sales of the MLM and then like the end times of like a lot of the extreme Christian religions mix with some health and wellness of goop and like the new age of the Cache records with this like prepper, you know, don't trust the government.

[00:19:25] Situation and then the Scientology of disconnection. Like it's like she pulled from every single thing that we've talked about on this podcast, not that she pulled from our podcast, but you know what I mean? That's why it's such an amalgamation of all the things.

[00:19:39] And again, the fact that it's all online and it's people connecting from all.

[00:19:43] I mean, there's there are people in India and Australia, I mean, all over the world that are getting wrapped up in this and like X members called the Great Migration when there was just like a month where she was like leave now.

[00:19:52] They're putting you in concentration camps and all these women all the world just like moved different places with their kids just because this woman online told them. And you heard 38 right about 38 families for sure that you know of moved.

[00:20:03] Yeah, that's an ex-member told me she could and she seemed to have a pretty encyclopedic understanding of everything the group was very involved in said she could count 38 moms that in this period. Yeah, wow. Yeah, that's 38 families. Right.

[00:20:19] And these kids obviously like they're you know, I've seen YouTube videos from some of these kids and they are using their they're doing like Leonis teachings. I mean, apparently one kid like visited her grandparents and the grandparents were vaccinated.

[00:20:33] So when the daughter like the eight or 10 year old got back, the mom made her do a coffee enema against her will as a way to kind of like clear it out.

[00:20:42] I mean, these kids are going through all these these, you know, their their memories are being affected and they're I think being physically abused. Meals bring people together. But for many families providing their next meal can be a challenge.

[00:21:24] You can help by participating in Macy's annual feeding the hungry food drive. All proceeds go toward local food banks and families.

[00:21:32] Now, through January 31st, you can purchase an icon in store or online or watch out for the blue feeding the hungry shelf tags where a portion of your purchase will be donated to local pantries. Together we can combat hunger in our local communities at Macy's.

[00:21:48] The Frankies were a picture perfect influencer family, but everything wasn't as it seemed. I just had a 12 year old boy show up here asking for help. He's emaciated. He's got tape around his legs. Ruby Frankie is his mom's name.

[00:22:05] Infamous is covering Ruby Frankie, the world of Mormonism and a secret therapy group that ruined lives. Listen to Infamous wherever you get your podcasts. Do you notice the distinctions? I mean, you've looked into Teal. You've looked into fellowship of friends.

[00:22:24] Is there a refinement or kind of an adaptation that she's used? Do you find that the process is getting a little bit more subversive or is it pretty much the same and the distinctions between a Teal and Leanna?

[00:22:39] I think a lot of it is, and I can get pretty dystopian with this. I'll try to hold off, but I think a lot of it's just technology and the algorithm. It makes it so much easier.

[00:22:47] I mean, now people are sending me TikTokers who are kind of becoming cult leaders overnight because it sort of rewards anybody who says something out of the norm that's kind of like against status quo.

[00:22:59] Then they're canceled and they become a martyr and then build a following for challenging the conventional thinking. If they're prone to sort of narcissistic thinking, maybe they use that, weaponize that. I think you're seeing technology. She had it all built in.

[00:23:18] In this Facebook group and because the conditions around COVID, you had the isolation, you had the information control, like you said. It was really easy for her to collect collateral. She could do it all from her phone. Also, another thing is this woman. She was very clever.

[00:23:33] She was a lawyer and then she became a timeshare salesperson. I think was incredible at that. Then had this sort of, I think, a spiritual awakening change her name created this character online. She's clearly a good salesperson and she clearly has a legal brain. She's convicted felon.

[00:23:49] She was convicted for bankruptcy fraud. She's currently serving five-year probation. Right before COVID started, she got sentenced and she wasn't allowed to travel. She was even more isolated than a lot of people. She lives in Hawaii, which is not a bad place, I think, to be stuck.

[00:24:02] But she couldn't really travel without permission of a court. So she was trapped during COVID, but she created this sort of world online where she was a god and had all these followers.

[00:24:12] They were almost like these video game characters that were trapped in in this beautiful land of Lemeria that she painted for them. In a lot of these audio courses, she paints this world of Lemeria and it's very enticing.

[00:24:24] Especially during COVID, it's like, yeah, we're all going to escape this beautiful island and be these light workers. I think it was very appealing. Anyway, she was able to do all this just through her phone because of COVID and this sort of age.

[00:24:37] We're in the algorithmic anxiety and the algorithms sort of feed on us and drive us to people like her. Like I said, a lot of people were just Googling their health issues or pregnancy issues and came to her online courses in the same way Tiel did.

[00:24:49] Tiel was kind of a perfect person of the moment. Early YouTube, she really learned how to, she just churned out content. She had videos for everything so people would type in questions about suicide or diet or Akashic records and chakras and find her videos.

[00:25:05] And then YouTube would also just the algorithm would drive her to her. I would ask people, when did you find Tiel? And they were like, well, I put an intention in the universe and YouTube gave me her video. I was like, well, that's the algorithm. That's good SEO.

[00:25:17] But it's like we have a long history of confusing technology with magic and you know. God. Yeah. But I think that's happening here is like it just feels like there's some sort of divine inspiration when really it's just the algorithm driving people there.

[00:25:29] So I think she's just kind of the perfect, she had the perfect mind to sort of seize on that moment.

[00:25:34] Do you think that she like, we know we've since learned that Keith had this whole library and he read Dianetics and he was like, you know, directly plagiarizing from a number of spiritual leaders.

[00:25:44] Do you think she did as well or how do you think she put together this hodgepodge of a belief system? Do you know? I don't know. I mean, normally I get really like with Tiel, I spend a lot of time and I got a better understanding.

[00:25:56] I'm still actively looking into this and trying to get like a better understanding of her history. So I hope to have a better answer for that in the future. But yeah, it seems like she's pulling from a lot of, I think she consumes a lot of media.

[00:26:08] She's always on her phone. I mean, she posts on her stories like a hundred or so times a day, oftentimes attacking people. Yeah, it's like that's her main way of teaching is people follow her Instagram stories. She has like 20 to 23,000 followers. Yeah, 22,000 I saw.

[00:26:23] I think most of those might be, I don't know how many of them are real, but she does have a core group that follows her there and she's constantly posting. She's constantly attacking people.

[00:26:31] Well, I noticed that she has adopted the playbook to Gaslight by she's saying people are doing to her what she's doing to people.

[00:26:40] And she uses like the sound bites of the day to kind of justify what she's doing and saying, oh, these are just people that want to make me seem small.

[00:26:48] And then she's taking kernels of truth from the patriarchy and leveraging her victimhood through being a woman and saying it's men that want to keep her small and they gaslight me.

[00:26:59] And she has the pre-packaged narratives because she knows, I think she's clever and she knows the objections to what she's doing because people see the abuse of power that she's doing. And she has these sound bites kind of ready. So it's interesting.

[00:27:12] And this is something that Sarah and I have come into contact with. It's like any sort of questioning of your process is proof of the oppression in a lot of ways. She's quick to that from what I saw looking through her Instagram page. Yeah.

[00:27:25] I think it is important to, I think point out she was fired from her. She was selling time shares at Wyndham. She filed a class action lawsuit. It sounds like there was a lot of pretty bad sexual harassment and discrimination at her company.

[00:27:38] It isn't to say that it doesn't exist at all. Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah.

[00:27:42] I just mean that I think that is an important part of her origin story possibly that could have like, I feel like there is an understanding of like this morning maybe traumatic experience inspired her to like, you know what, I am going to burn it all to the ground.

[00:27:53] But yes, to your point, I think she is pulling from a lot of stuff. I mean, look, she's like, look, look, Keith, you're next to him like clearly in Epstein.

[00:28:00] You know, a lot of people pull from those that it's like, yes, this stuff does happen and people got away with for years. And, you know, now she's pointing to, I think one of the, there's always creating these new boogeyman that are pulled from the headlines and output.

[00:28:13] Yeah. Recently, I think it was like the, you know, the, these Palestine, the train derailment and, you know, all that biohazard, you know, East Palestine in the US. Ohio region.

[00:28:23] Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. She, you know, it was like, oh, well that was, I think like a government thing and now you can't drink water or be living a certain stream. So she's having people move through that. Never let a good crisis go to waste. There you go.

[00:28:36] Kind of thing. Yeah. And that was a big, you know, government fuck up. I mean, bureaucratic, I mean, that was, that was a, I mean, so yes, it is, there's some truth.

[00:28:44] Like yeah, they sort of, they could have avoided that, but I don't think it was as conspiratorial as, you know, she will say. I guess it beckons the question and this isn't devil's advocate or anything, but I guess it's like, you think she's cognizant of what she's doing.

[00:28:56] She knows what she's doing or is she just angry? She has an axe to grind and she's willing to tear the whole thing down because she has an axe to grind. Is it how calculated? I guess, is it under your impression?

[00:29:06] I've gone back and forth and I got some clarity because she was ordered to court recently. So we got to see who she is in real life. You were there? No, no, no, I was not.

[00:29:15] I got a court transcript and somebody who was there gave me the full rundown. So I reported on that because the Daily Beast, my investigation came out about a month ago

[00:29:26] and then that got the awareness of her probation officer who I think was very alarmed that, you know, like, if you're on probation for bank fraud, you have to like, or bankruptcy fraud, you have to be doing things by the books.

[00:29:41] You know, and you I think, you know, the in your probation officer is supposed to have access to your records and there's a lot of shady stuff going on. I mean, her health mastery institute is registered in Nevada under the name of one of her followers.

[00:29:52] There's just a lot. And I think this is the probation officer is like, whoa, whoa, this is not what I thought was going on. So the judge ordered her to court to discuss this.

[00:30:00] And so she came and I mean, and that was I was amazed because like oftentimes this takes, you know, months or years before you see any kind of legal action with spiritual leaders and spiritual grifters. And, you know, so I was pretty amazed by that.

[00:30:15] But in it like she kind of said a lot of she was she was got pretty conspiratorial. I mean, she ended up speaking to the judge on her own behalf and it was pretty bananas.

[00:30:26] I mean, I wrote it but I took some of the snippets and put in my article. But it's like she was really pushing the sort of this idea of memory planting came from a man who was a pedophile

[00:30:35] and just credit and like just sort of spiraling and rambling and saying, well, I can see evil and it's my right as a human and a Christian to call out evil. And, you know, I have evidence that these men were abusing their kids.

[00:30:46] And then the judge like stopped her. She's like, wait, you have evidence of child abuse? And she's like, yeah, I have a video. She's like, wait, somebody filmed a video of this. And she's like, well, maybe it wasn't that. And like the judge is like, you're a lawyer.

[00:30:57] Like you should know better than just say that you have like you're saying, I mean, you need to be careful here. And it was just so fascinating to see this sort of back and forth with like a lawyer turned spiritual guru

[00:31:08] being challenged by a judge who clearly, I mean, for my reading was not having it. And it was like, well, you know, as a judge, you know, like people can plant false memory. I mean, you know, this happens.

[00:31:17] And then anyway, it was it was it was just wild to see someone like I don't know. I mean, obviously Keith never, I guess never spoke. So you didn't really get to see. I mean, you saw like him his writings to the judge or whatever.

[00:31:28] Right. But you didn't see like someone trying to reason from the spiritual to the real world. Anyway, it was just it was just fascinating to see that. Well, that's because I think Keith knew he was lying.

[00:31:39] Keith knew that under a jury of his peers and asked direct questions, he doesn't answer direct questions. He switches the narrative and ends up answering a different question that he wants, which to me, to me, maybe I'm wrong.

[00:31:51] At least tells me he's somewhat aware of what he's doing. But if she's subjecting herself to a judge and she's a lawyer, I don't know, maybe there's some mental stuff going on there. But who knows?

[00:32:01] I was thinking that she would try to defend it, you know, like the sort of Alex Jones, like, oh, well, you know, some of its performance, you know, I thought like that was his sort of,

[00:32:09] I think argument, but no, she seems to be the same person that she is online that she was in the court. And I was surprised. So that makes me think she does believe it to an extent. Yeah, that's that's my impression. The person that was there, did they,

[00:32:23] did they tell you anything about like the discrepancy between her like airbrushed anime sort of porn star vibe versus the reality vibe? Yeah, I think that was that was a big reason that I think so there's a group of people who

[00:32:37] they've lost family members to the group and they've kind of gotten together and they've been researching it and trying to shed light on this. And this is who one of them initially reached out to me after listening to this podcast and also listen reached out to you.

[00:32:48] And I know had some interaction with you. Yes. So is this the Lianne Shanti caught recovery Instagram page? Yes. Yeah, yeah. So that's like the main group that are trying and they've been a great source of information,

[00:32:59] but it was important them to get an eye in there and see what she really looks like. And sure enough, they, you know, they confirmed she did not look like in the pictures. You know, she so in real life, she's, you know, 52 year old mother living in kind

[00:33:13] of suburban Hawaii online. She again looks like this sort of ageless nymph like character. But yeah, they confirmed that in real life she was there. She had what appeared to be a wig. She did not have the same physicality of her online character.

[00:33:29] And also they were tickled that she had to wear a mask in the court in the courtroom. The judge orders people to wear a mask and I think Leon is incredibly anti-mask. So I'm sure she didn't, you know, did not like that.

[00:33:39] That's just like poetic justice in my mind. Well, it's the thing that comes to mind now is like, you know, when we were growing up, like in the 80s or whatever, you would see these kinds of things like in the shape

[00:33:52] of like a tamifé or it was extreme. And it seems like because of the internet, you can have pockets of these people that fool, you know, a small niche group and it's enough for them to make a living.

[00:34:07] They don't have to get on television to evangelize and all that stuff. And you can make a case that, you know, people that gave their money to religious groups back in the day ruined families as well. Right? You know, I'm sure it happened.

[00:34:19] And these algorithm people that just have like an avatar, they can like have their families go online with this persona, like it's their job, like put on the avatar and take it off and not... and it was a day at work.

[00:34:32] You're able to cast a wide net and find the people who your toxic message resonates the deepest with. Yeah. She knows how to use that.

[00:35:15] It's yoga. Maybe it's getting eight hours of sleep. I mean, that's my personal and everyone's dream, isn't it? Well, I definitely have some non-negotiables like I'm in Vancouver right now and I'm spending literally as much time as I can outside of nature. Hashtag cold pools, hashtag crushing it.

[00:35:30] Nature is a non-negotiable. Not enough time in the fresh air and the trees around me and I start to feel not great, not myself, not grounded. Therapy day is a bit like my nature walks.

[00:35:39] I try to not miss it and I know I'm just going to feel so much better all around if I make it a priority. I get so much out of it. It helps me put my worries and anxieties in their rightful place

[00:35:48] and helps me clear my mind so I can focus on what I really need and sometimes what I don't need. Like, I don't need to be overbooking myself just because I hate to say no to people. You know what I mean? Thanks, Therapy!

[00:35:57] Thanks for helping me see that. And if you're thinking of starting therapy, give Better Help a try. It's entirely online designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire and get matched with a licensed therapist

[00:36:09] and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Look, even when we know what makes us happy, it's hard to make time for it. But when you feel like you have no time for yourself, non-negotiables like therapy are more important than ever. Never skip Therapy Day with Better Help.

[00:36:23] Visit betterhelp.com slash culti today to get 10% off your first month. That's Better Help H-E-L-P dot com slash culti. Meals bring people together, but for many families providing their next meal can be a challenge. You can help by participating in Macy's annual Feeding the Hungry Food Drive.

[00:36:41] All proceeds go toward local food banks and families. Now, through January 31st, you can purchase an icon in-store or online, or watch out for the blue Feeding the Hungry Shelf Tags, where a portion of your purchase will be donated to local pantries.

[00:36:56] Together, we can combat hunger in our local communities at Macy's. Nippy, Jennings and I were messaging about this. I'm not sure if I told you, but the thing that really kind of, I don't want to say excited me because it's never really exciting,

[00:37:11] but it's just I feel like there's a shift perhaps in the cultiverse with how these things are being handled. Jennings wrote this article for The Daily Beast and initiated court proceedings within six weeks, six, seven weeks, right? Yeah. There was a difference that she was on probation,

[00:37:26] so there was a very clear thing here for them to call her in for. And the hearing was just about related to her probation. So one of the orders or conditions in her probation is that she poses a risk to society.

[00:37:37] They can order her to inform her clients that she is a convicted felon. So what they were discussing in the last hearing is like, well, I think that you need to post prominently on your website, not buried, and you need to post maybe like twice a week

[00:37:49] on all your Instagram accounts associated with you. As Leanne Wilson, that's her real birth, like that's how she was born. As Leanne Wilson, I was convicted of bankruptcy fraud. So that's what they're currently discussing, how she is going to inform her followers and clients of that.

[00:38:04] So also a big part of this is after the story came out, her probation officer and the judge were flooded with, I mean, like 25 or more letters of victim impact statements of all these families. And I think that was very overwhelming.

[00:38:17] So that was a shift that over the course of a year I was interviewing all these people who were so understandably scared because she's kind of this, she was sort of the wizard behind the curtain.

[00:38:26] And they didn't, you know, they knew she was like a big deal lawyer and they knew her followers were rabid. And what's different here is like a lot of cult-like groups, you know, have you cut off her from your family? But here it's like emotional terrorism.

[00:38:37] Like they would go inside their, they would sneak, like one, these two sisters who were followers sneaked inside their parents' house and tore up all the family photos. You know, there's a lot of like posting their confessions online about calling parents sex abusers and things like that.

[00:38:50] I mean, it's a lot of just like actual, like really hurting their family members rather than just cutting them off. Well, she's inspiring some real, inflicting some real pain. So people are really, really afraid to go anywhere near it.

[00:39:00] And even within this group of people trying to expose her, there's a lot of distrust. They have to vet everybody that comes in. And there's like an intake form and they vet them before they reveal their identity. And there was a lot of like secrecy and like concern

[00:39:14] and hurt and just months of building rapport and getting people comfortable sharing because they're afraid of what she's going to do. And I mean, because she does attack people violently online and she encourages her followers to get police reports

[00:39:25] on people and you know, to take them to court. And anyway, so it's very messy. And to see all of these people who experienced such a weird kind of trauma, I mean, that's the reason that a lot of culture survivors don't speak out is

[00:39:37] it's such a weird kind of spiritual abuse. It's really hard to explain to a judge or a normal person who's outside of that world. And the story came out and they saw the reaction. They saw people talking about it. They were very emboldened to speak out

[00:39:49] and like, yeah, we are not alone experiencing this very weird kind of, you know, because it sounds very conspiratorial if you say, you know, my wife started listening to these audio courses and then she just completely transformed and started giving our kid coffee enemas and fled to Florida.

[00:40:02] You sound crazy, but so finally it's like to see so many of these people who are so scared like come together and mobilize so quickly gave me a lot of hope that like something is shifting.

[00:40:12] Like they were so quickly, you know, this is what we're going to do. And then the judge seemed to have taken this so seriously and like really understood what she was saying around like planting memories and how dangerous that is with children.

[00:40:23] And I don't know, it just gave me a lot of hope that I think like all of this sort of education around like what you're doing and, you know, these documentaries and stuff. I mean, they come with their own problems.

[00:40:32] A lot of, you know, it's like there is also a fear of like trauma porn and the cult documentary industrial complex. But I think that there is kind of a, I don't know, I was just like, I was so prepared.

[00:40:43] It's like with Teal, you know, she nothing's changed and I'm not saying that she needs to go to prison, but I feel like there needs to be, there should be more transparency of these groups and the fellowship of friends. They've been operating for 50 years, pretty unscathed.

[00:40:54] But to see, I mean, it's small. And I think it's just the beginning, but to see the court take this seriously so quickly, it just felt like a bit of a shift. Yeah. The collective consciousness is headed that way because of how information's being disseminated

[00:41:08] and it's not being controlled. And I think responsible minds eventually right now it's like everyone's going hog wild with their theories and who's right and who's wrong and all that stuff. But I think when it settles, there's wisdom to be extracted from it

[00:41:22] and hopefully it gets into places that it wasn't previously. And I think legally, our case was one where we kind of had to educate on course of control. Now it's standard or feels more standard. Exactly. Yeah. We have a platform that's gotten course of control out

[00:41:38] and to hear a judge in Hawaii, right? My guess is a little bit out of the mainstream understand it is encouraging. Yeah. I don't know. I mean this judge does seem very savvy and bright and maybe that was just like we found

[00:41:50] it happened to fall into the right judge. You know, I don't know. There is some good coming from all of us talking into microphone, I guess. Thank God. Thank goodness that makes me feel better. We're putting something good into the mic. It's not just a hobby podcast.

[00:42:06] How much of her podcast did you listen to? So I listened to a lot of her audio courses because I think that's where the real stuff is happening. The podcast is more, it's pretty, you listen to it, you're like, oh this is fine.

[00:42:18] Yeah, you're like, oh this is, it just sounds like a woman who listened to a lot of Joe Rogan and kind of wants to do her own thing or it's kind of like Girl Boss. Like it's very accessible. She sounds pretty normal too at the beginning. Yeah.

[00:42:30] And that's what makes me think she knows what she's doing because she's able to compartmentalize one personality on a podcast and then go hog wild in her private whatever. Yeah. And I said that I think that she, again I've gone back and forth

[00:42:42] and I'm kind of in one mindset because of the hearing but now that I'm stepping back, I mean I have heard there are other things that I'm starting, they're starting to come out that show that there are many different versions of her

[00:42:52] and so maybe she was Leona in the courtroom but I think there are other things and I think that we're just starting to scratch the surface as far as the mysterious Leona Shanti and all the things that she's done and gotten into.

[00:43:05] When you were listening to the recordings you know I read the article where the husband decided to listen because he wanted to help his wife and got a little bit hooked himself. Did you see how that's plausible? Did you see the hook and did you get that far?

[00:43:19] Yeah, that was like one of the spookier aspects and that's how I sort of opened the story to help people understand. I mean they were happily married for like 23 years, high school sweethearts and everything was good, happy family. He was on a course to retire very young

[00:43:34] I mean in his like 40s and she during COVID or around then she started listening to these courses and just she just transformed. It was almost like this Kafkaesque like waking up one day and you're living with a different person and they start having fights over

[00:43:50] what to feed the kids and then she was like constantly listening these courses and then she would like come up and have questions about their marriage because the courses are like how to deal with a narcissistic abusive relationship and you listen to these courses and every relationship sounds

[00:44:05] narcissistic and abusive. You listen to enough and it starts to shape your views and she took the kids and left and over like I mean there were fights but this is the thing where you're like all of a sudden your partner is bringing up

[00:44:20] all these things out of nowhere and you kind of can't help but react in a natural way that pushes back and then that confirms what Leon is teaching. So it's kind of this self-fulfilling prophecy. So they're having these fights and these men are like getting

[00:44:32] obviously very like upset and like protective of their kids and so then she left and didn't tell them where he went and like finally got to FaceTime them and his kids were like in a barn and look scared according to him which was horrifying

[00:44:44] and then he was like finally decided you know I want to try to help my relationship fix my relationship so we started listening to these courses and they had an effect on him it started to change the way he viewed his mom he cut off his mom

[00:44:57] he used to love his dad his dad is dead but it made him like it changed his memories of his dad and then his sister was trying to figure out what was going on with her brother and her sister-in-law so she joined the Facebook group

[00:45:09] and then she got into it and started plotting to like take the kids to Florida afraid that they were going to get locked up in a concentration camp so talking to these people I'm like this is like a contagion I mean this is like black mirror shit

[00:45:21] you know like and it's all from this woman who they don't know what she looks like that they've never seen or nobody, none of her followers have met and that kind of power to like beat beat beat hit every person like three people in a family

[00:45:32] and change their understanding of their I mean I was like this is this is unlike anything I've ever seen also they're entering some level of awareness yeah I am fully inoculated you know I go into the by that point when I was listening to it

[00:45:46] I was like I know enough but I'm like oh I get it but I think it was through you know reporting on Teal and all this that I they kind of had some inoculation but I was I was fully vaccinated that's a good show title fully vaccinated against

[00:46:02] Vienna Shanti I told a friend of mine that I had coffee this morning and I said to him I'm going to do a little bit about the interview I'm going to do today and like the cult of the algorithm and we did an episode

[00:46:11] like in our first season of someone who went down the far right cult of the algorithm watching YouTube videos and went in with the awareness if that's what she was watching Helper Boyfriend similar story and ultimately the conversation got a little bit to AI

[00:46:23] and how AI is doing and how AI is just doubling in intelligence every eight months and then it's going to be able to emulate voices and images and stuff like that and we were just kind of playing with it you know like what happens when

[00:46:35] you know AI is it knows it refines itself and it knows you and it knows you know your nuances and emulates that stuff how do you going to be able to make two distinctions when bingo you know it's not indoctrinating you into something

[00:46:49] that's what I was saying earlier I could get real dystopian with it the black mirror thing yeah you have to have this conversation I mean it's when I wrote the letter to Nancy about like you know okay we're branding women now where does this go

[00:47:00] take this out five ten years like how does it end so you do that with this like how does this it's an army of badass bitches for Keith you have a generation of people who think they're peak intelligence they're never going to know

[00:47:13] what it's like to go to a grocery store buy a carton of milk without it being tracked it's going to be the norm right everyone's going to be able to know so you know how do you it's a tsunami coming and a couple people see the tsunami

[00:47:25] and other people are like yeah I'm going to jump in the tsunami because it's fun and it's fine and it has my best interest at heart and I'm an optimist but that's a pretty scary thing because I don't it's hard to figure out the punches that are coming

[00:47:37] she's kind of tapping into the fear of that wave is that what you mean? no no no I'm just saying there's this AI coming that is going to only get smarter and smarter I'm ready for that stoner conversation next level they know that's another podcast but it's like

[00:47:49] yeah it's like what happens when the AI figures out how to out Leon a Leon and just can do this all on because at first you're like well at least AI you know like there's never going to be that experience of like meeting somebody in person

[00:48:01] and now we're like we don't need that like we're actually we have a more a deeper connection with people on our phone eventually when she was saying like don't go outside don't do zoom don't listen I will give you clips of Joe Grogan that you can listen to

[00:48:14] you have to communicate in this Facebook group and this was over the course of several months of the COVID and like things ramping up where and they changed their names and you know the frogs slowly being boiled where all of a sudden you're only communicating

[00:48:26] in this Facebook group she said don't communicate with any of the researchers outside of the Facebook group because I can't monitor your energy there and everything they post in the group has to get approved by her to show up in the Facebook group so they're only saying things

[00:48:40] that they know that she'll like so it got even deeper than if you're like you have this amazing experience with Keith where you're love bombed and feel very seen but then you can go off and talk to people and someone like you know I don't buy it all

[00:48:52] you know you can kind of have that challenging and there's but here there's not that and these people are I mean a lot of them she would say again don't don't interact with anybody like even a emotional connection to somebody's vaccinated can hurt you

[00:49:05] and yeah don't go to grocery stores because you know the people shed the vaccine don't go to doctors anyway so yeah so that the fact that I can all happen through somebody you've never even met there's not much before we get an AI version of that I think

[00:49:17] maybe she is AI maybe she's a reptile I wouldn't even kind of think that is sorry yeah yeah I call it she's the original Q-Mom I feel like I've seen some articles of like the rise like Rethink Rolling Stone E.J. Dixon

[00:49:32] who covers a lot of this stuff did the rise of the Q-Mom it is a thing but like this is like the first like I think deeply like Q-Mom cult like group where she was teaching a lot of like QAnon adjacent teachings it is mostly targeted in moms

[00:49:44] it is getting moms to like take their kids and fully in the middle of the night I mean yeah this is it's like it's Q-Mom sir I better not wake up and try to stay I'm gonna say I feel lucky that didn't fall prey to this one

[00:49:56] but you know I do like the not so much now but like you know early 2010 I was totally into the raw green and I still do green juice mind you but like the health and wellness stuff is a real portal for me well that's how they get

[00:50:09] some of the early members I can totally see you really vibing with the ones that joined in the beginning and that we're in for the vegan stuff I mean they're like yeah I mean they joined in like 2012 to 2013 I mean that could be you sir

[00:50:22] that could have been me it could have been me yeah definitely the irony is not is not lost on me and there are lots of questions most of which I think you've answered with regards to her face it is important to note like a lot of people use

[00:50:34] filters and heavy filters and I think that some detractors get really focused on that and it can kind of get into misogynistic territory because I feel like a lot of these you know spiritual bro leaders like wouldn't get attacked for you know like using you know

[00:50:50] enhancing their muscles or whatever but it is a symbol of I think duplicity like people who've left are like and they see the real picture and they're like holy shit that's not at all who I imagine being you know my Jesus so I think that there is

[00:51:02] a level of deception there but I think I do want to keep people in check not y'all but just I think in general I think there's a quick ness to judge people like Teal or Liana in ways that you wouldn't if it were you know like a

[00:51:17] tech bro spiritual guru or something absolutely agree and to clarify I'm not judging what I'm judging yeah judge away judge away sir we're not the judge please leave it there is there anything else that we didn't cover that you want people to know it's been a while

[00:51:33] since I've been kind of reporting and there's been breaking news to bring in and people keep reaching out to me with new stuff that's blowing my mind and I can't you know it's like stuff I still have to confirm but there's so much going on here

[00:51:49] she's such a she's a miss directly yeah please I'm just going to go to the my office and I'm gonna be here and I'm just gonna be here and just started a a substack where I'm kinda because I again I was so overloaded with stuff that I couldn't

[00:52:13] get out so I'll be posting a lot of stuff there and people kind of follow along with updates so yeah I always know where to send them yeah I mean you do a lot of journalistic adjacent work I think but yeah you forwarded a couple to me

[00:52:28] that I really appreciate and yeah you're always welcome to send stuff to me too perfect we will especially over the summer well thank you Jennings thank you Jennings and thanks for the work that you do it's very informative so thanks a lot thanks for getting it out there

[00:52:43] go team this podcast is brought to you by Citizens of Sound a podcast production agency committed to developing and launching shows with gravity and depth from conception to launch citizens will partner with you every step of the way whether you're an actor business owner doctor fitness coach hairstylist

[00:53:01] or influencer connection is the future of communication jump on board with Citizens of Sound today and start your show go to Citizensofsound.com and follow them on Instagram and trust me it'll be a really good decision for you I don't know that sounds like

[00:53:17] you know black mirror stuff the other thing I forgot to mention with him which I think is really important if you listen to her podcast which don't listen to too much because I don't want you to get like brainwash or hypnotized seriously she's like really good

[00:53:28] at pointing out actual real culty things that are happening in like churches and families and those dynamics you'd never suspect that she would be operating in the same way if you don't have this education that you think well that's the whole thing you never suspect it

[00:53:41] that's what makes these things so dangerous and the people that think oh I can never fall for it there's people that went into with eyes wide open and still fell for it so look same story different algorithm right? yep let us know what you think

[00:53:56] thank god for Jennings Brown oh thanks everybody thanks see you later and maybe even on Patreon this week where we get to talk to Jennings in person you don't want to miss it by now only three spots left to be on our team just kidding

[00:54:12] talk to you later bye hope you liked this episode let's keep the conversation going and come hang out with us on Patreon where we keep the tape rolling each week special episodes just for Patreon subscribers and where we get deep into the weeds

[00:54:34] of unpacking every episode of The Val and if you're looking for our show notes or some sweet sweet swag or official ALBC podcast march or a list of our most recommended cult roots or some other great stuff that you might want to know

[00:54:47] and if you're looking for our show notes or some sweet sweet swag or official ALBC podcast march or a list of our most recommended cult roots recommended cult recovery resources visit our website at alilibitculti.com and for more background on what brought us here

[00:55:00] check out Sarah's page turning memoir it's called Scarred true story of how I escaped nexium the cult that bound my life it's available on Amazon, Audible narrated by my wife and at most bookstores Alilibit Culti is a talkhouse podcast and a Trace 120 production

[00:55:15] we're executive produced by Sarah Edmondson and Anthony Nippy Ames with writing, research and additional production support by senior producer Jess Tardy we're edited, mixed and mastered by our rocking producer Will Rutherford of Citizens of Sound and our amazing theme song Cultivated is by John Bryant

[00:55:31] and co-written by Nigel Asselin thank you for listening